"Ping" Victor About International Abuses In The Congo - Discussion (w/ Stamps!)

Well, Victor...

I just found 3 more inciteful articles on the international raping,
pillaging and plundering of the Congo that you state was / is a local,
neighborhood affair.

No civilized countries would take advantage of the weak, without
paying them for it? Think again.

OK... your current home country is involved in one of these affairs,
as noted by this author:

http://www.greenpeace.org/internatio...ning-the-congo

I believe the entire document is there, which I will download and
read. Reducing the rainforest will increase desertification below the
Sahel region of the Sahara.

*****

Not to be outdone, the Carter Center is assisting with this aspect of
Congo mining:

http://cartercenter.org/news/pr/Congo_071408.html

There are no outside concessionaires in the Congo, are there? Where's
the money going to?

*****

Last, but not least is an expose which may be pretty insidious because
it betrays one of the last groups of gorillas "in the mist" so that
some ingenious concessionaire can mine the place.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Fox...80714-816.html

(If it wraps around, put the 2 piece together for the URL.)

*****

If you'll notice, these are from 3 different sources, so they aren't
all "demented" and "tortured" writers with an axe to grind. I'm
bringing this back up in public because I feel the need to show you
that your mis-aligned theory of what the Congo was / is, who was the
first true prime minister (and not a communist) needs some adjusting.

Whether or not you will believe any of this is on you. I'm not here
to pummel you with facts. I'm just placing a few tidbits out there,
with very little research time, to make sure the item on the table has
the respect it deserves. I have supported this stance with 10 or more
references to your 1 opposed in private e-mails. Here are 3 more
"conspiracy theories".

*****

I collect stamps and ephemera from the DRC. I am not bias towards or
against the DRC. I am only stating some commentary that I feel
strongly about - a people that have been abandoned. I almost stopped
collecting stamps from there because I thought they were "tainted".
Kind of like the blood diamond thing, but the entire country is
tainted in blood.

I'm sure some here feel that way about the Third Reich or your old
homeland during Ceaucescu (?). We did so here in the states in the
pioneer times and it is known worldwide. The atrocities that have
happened in the Congo and Rwanda weren't always known nor supported.
Kind of like growing mushrooms - keep them in the dark and feed them
poop.

I support them by being an advocate for human rights as best I can if
I know some of the issues and by collecting stamps from that country -
not out of pity, but out of reverence now.

The U.S. was the first entity to recognize the Congo as Leopold II's
private playground. I am ashamed of the reasons why it was done. It
has caused many millions to dies unnecessarily.

Unfortunately, the large global industrial machine is bigger and more
intertwined that we believe or want to believe. Marx saw this coming
also and I am no communist.

wrote in message
...

Well, Victor...

Well, my friend Tracy, your posting is not only quite looong, but IMHO also
rather OT for this ng (not enough postal history or similar things related
to Congo - but maybe I'm wrong).

snipped for brevity

The U.S. was the first entity to recognize the Congo as Leopold II's
private playground. I am ashamed of the reasons why it was done. It
has caused many millions to dies unnecessarily.

I quickly found on the Web that already a long time ago at least another US
citizen, named George Washington Williams, tried to correct its previous,
mistaken position:

"July 1890: American Asserts Mass Violations of Human Rights in Congo
George Washington Williams writes an open letter to King Leopold II of
Belgium charging his government with a lengthy list of human rights
violations. Williams, a black American, came to the Congo early that year
interested in establishing a program through which African-Americans could
come to Africa to work. He had hoped that working in Africa would offer them
a better chance for advancement than in the US. His hopes were quickly
diminished shortly after arriving in the Congo. His letter to Leopold makes
the following charges: etc"
....
"Williams's open letter causes a stir in both the US and Europe. Leopold
denies the charges. [Hochschild, 1999, pp. 112] Ironically, Williams was the
first American to propose official recognition of the Congo Free State by
the United States. "
http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...timeline=congo

Unfortunately, the large global industrial machine is bigger and more
intertwined that we believe or want to believe.

Which makes us live better, even the so many poor Chinese, who now can
afford even to organize the Olympic Games. Back to our topic, it is much
easier to find stamps from the whole world, in many places, thanks to the
globalization of the philatelic trade.

Marx saw this coming
also and I am no communist.

Marx wasn't a stamp collector either, so nobody is perfect :-)

--
Victor Manta

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On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:36:10 +0200, "Victor Manta"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

Well, Victor...

Well, my friend Tracy, your posting is not only quite looong, but IMHO also
rather OT for this ng (not enough postal history or similar things related
to Congo - but maybe I'm wrong).

Yes, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. That still doesn't discount what
happened in history, what is happening now and what is perceived.

Further, I didn't know you were in charge of enforcing the Charter
today. :^)

Finally, it seems that you don't deny these allegations about the
Congo, or are you still on a disbelief note? Is everyone a communist
but you? Is the Pope Lutheran? Is the sky blue? Do fat babies fart?

Victor, I post it here for one reason. It seems that you think
yourself bulletproof at times and that is not correct. This has
nothing to do with our on-line friendship here, but just that you seem
to do no evil and are never wrong.

Don't answer the above. I believe that I have just laid to rest this
ghost.

Let's get back to stampin'... Believe me, there's a lot to do.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:36:10 +0200, "Victor Manta"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..

Well, Victor...

Well, my friend Tracy, your posting is not only quite looong, but IMHO
also
rather OT for this ng (not enough postal history or similar things related
to Congo - but maybe I'm wrong).

Yes, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. That still doesn't discount what
happened in history, what is happening now and what is perceived.

Of course it doesn't. I would be interested to learn on this ng about how
this is reflected on stamps.

Further, I didn't know you were in charge of enforcing the Charter
today. :^)

We do it all together here and for this reason this friendly ng works for
many years.

Finally, it seems that you don't deny these allegations about the
Congo, or are you still on a disbelief note? Is everyone a communist
but you? Is the Pope Lutheran? Is the sky blue? Do fat babies fart?

I regret that you possibly hoped to find in me a colonialist and an adept of
slavery, in order to then show me the right way :-) I'm not an
anti-colonialist either, because being just anti-colonialist doesn't say
something about what one stays for. Mr. Mugabe allegedly was/is an
anti-colonialist too but look where he brought Zimbabwe today, and ask
yourself why!
It is more difficult to judge about your preferred example, P. Lumumba, who
stayed at power a too short time, so that it is not easy to find out now
which were his real intentions. I already gave you a hint in this direction.

Anyway, because the subject of colonialism interest you much more than
myself, why shouldn't you create a Colonialism on Stamps site? With your
kind permission, I would gladly contribute to it.

Victor, I post it here for one reason. It seems that you think
yourself bulletproof at times and that is not correct. This has
nothing to do with our on-line friendship here, but just that you seem
to do no evil and are never wrong.

What importance has it, how bulletproof I am? BTW, if I have falsely judged
a stamp, for example on my Communism on Stamp site, I will be glad to learn
why.

Don't answer the above. I believe that I have just laid to rest this
ghost.

I'm polite so I answer ;-)

Let's get back to stampin'... Believe me, there's a lot to do.

For sure, fortunately.

--
Victor Manta

PS. Tracy, can you still remember that a participant here called both of us
racists because of my Spanish North Africa site and of your contribution to
it too? Should give to think, IMHO...

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On Aug 2, 5:26*am, "Victor Manta" wrote:

All snipped as unimportant to rec.stamps.DISCUSS. Impertinent too
INHO.

Let's get back to stampin'... *Believe me, there's a lot to do.

For sure, fortunately.
--
Victor Manta

PS. Tracy, can you still remember that a participant here called both of us
racists because of my Spanish North Africa site and of your contribution to
it *too? Should give to think, IMHO...

OK you guys, knock it off. Remember STAMPS-R-US.
Drat, I didn't know my friend Tracy was a Racist and I was a very
poorly paid employee of another Racist.

Window Clerk #1
SNA Post Office

"Ralphael1" wrote in message
...
On Aug 2, 5:26 am, "Victor Manta" wrote:

All snipped as unimportant to rec.stamps.DISCUSS. Impertinent too
INHO.

Obviously, Ralph doesn't want you to do a Colonialism on Stamps site, Tracy.

--
Victor Manta

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Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
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On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 11:26:55 +0200, "Victor Manta"
wrote:

It is more difficult to judge about your preferred example, P. Lumumba, who
stayed at power a too short time, so that it is not easy to find out now
which were his real intentions. I already gave you a hint in this direction.

Which, by the way, was a false "accusation" incurred by reading 1 web
page. But, I digress here. Victor will never admit "defeat" in a
newsgroup, even when it is quite clearly he's fighting a rear guard
maneuver as his troops are being whomped.

On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 04:44:14 -0700 (PDT), Ralphael1
wrote:

On Aug 2, 5:26*am, "Victor Manta" wrote:

All snipped as unimportant to rec.stamps.DISCUSS. Impertinent too
INHO.

Let's get back to stampin'... *Believe me, there's a lot to do.

For sure, fortunately.
--
Victor Manta

PS. Tracy, can you still remember that a participant here called both of us
racists because of my Spanish North Africa site and of your contribution to
it *too? Should give to think, IMHO...

OK you guys, knock it off. Remember STAMPS-R-US.
Drat, I didn't know my friend Tracy was a Racist and I was a very
poorly paid employee of another Racist.

Window Clerk #1
SNA Post Office

Hey, Ralph, what race is this? Please fill me in...

On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:51:58 +0200, "Victor Manta"
wrote:

"Ralphael1" wrote in message
...
On Aug 2, 5:26 am, "Victor Manta" wrote:

All snipped as unimportant to rec.stamps.DISCUSS. Impertinent too
INHO.

Obviously, Ralph doesn't want you to do a Colonialism on Stamps site, Tracy.

rut roh...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 11:26:55 +0200, "Victor Manta"
wrote:

It is more difficult to judge about your preferred example, P. Lumumba,
who
stayed at power a too short time, so that it is not easy to find out now
which were his real intentions. I already gave you a hint in this
direction.

Which, by the way, was a false "accusation" incurred by reading 1 web
page. But, I digress here. snip

Here is the USSR stamp, issued 1961, May 31, Scott 2486:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ba_1961_2k.jpg

--
Victor Manta

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