Question regarding old cloth book covers

I recently acquired a 10 book set of Robert Louis Stevenson's works
printed in 1930. They are in very good shape with one exception: They
have green dyed cloth covers and when handling the books the dye comes
off on your fingers. Now I am not an expert on old books but I do like
to read. I really just want to be able to enjoy these fine old volumes
and take the necessary steps to preserve them. Is there anything that I
can do to prevent this from happening or does this just happen normally
with age? I have been searching for answers on this but have not been
able to find any. Thanks very much for your time.

Eric Wright wrote:
I recently acquired a 10 book set of Robert Louis Stevenson's works
printed in 1930. They are in very good shape with one exception: They

have green dyed cloth covers and when handling the books the dye
comes
off on your fingers. Now I am not an expert on old books but I do
like
to read. I really just want to be able to enjoy these fine old
volumes
and take the necessary steps to preserve them. Is there anything that
I
can do to prevent this from happening or does this just happen
normally
with age? I have been searching for answers on this but have not been

able to find any. Thanks very much for your time.

You did not pay much for that set, I hope, because
it sounds to me as though a previous owner has
dyed those books after the cloth had become faded,
either to make them more attractive in a personal
library or to enhance their saleability. Frankly,
I have handled a great many old cloth books, and
never once have I had the cloth dye come off on my
fingers. That is just not one of the common things
(such as bubbled cloth covers, loose pages, and
cracked joints or hinges) which often show up in
old books, probably because permanent dyes for
cloth have long been part of the book manufacturing
processes.


Mr. Palmer
Room 314

wrote:

Eric Wright wrote:

I recently acquired a 10 book set of Robert Louis Stevenson's works
printed in 1930. They are in very good shape with one exception: They
have green dyed cloth covers and when handling the books the dye
comes off on your fingers. Now I am not an expert on old books but I do
like to read. I really just want to be able to enjoy these fine old
volumes and take the necessary steps to preserve them. Is there anything that
I can do to prevent this from happening or does this just happen
normally
with age? I have been searching for answers on this but have not been
able to find any. Thanks very much for your time.


You did not pay much for that set, I hope, because
it sounds to me as though a previous owner has
dyed those books after the cloth had become faded,
either to make them more attractive in a personal
library or to enhance their saleability. Frankly,
I have handled a great many old cloth books, and
never once have I had the cloth dye come off on my
fingers. That is just not one of the common things
(such as bubbled cloth covers, loose pages, and
cracked joints or hinges) which often show up in
old books, probably because permanent dyes for
cloth have long been part of the book manufacturing
processes.


Mr. Palmer
Room 314


Curiously, I have a volume, from the late 19th C., I believe, also green in
color, acquired about 35-40 years ago, that has the same problem of leaking the
green color.


Francis A. Miniter

In article ,
"Francis A. Miniter" wrote:

[snip]



Curiously, I have a volume, from the late 19th C., I believe, also green in
color, acquired about 35-40 years ago, that has the same problem of leaking
the
green color.


Francis A. Miniter

can you make covers for leaky books? Brod-art with no dust jacket in it?
Or would that make it worse

--
"Roadkill has its seasons
just like anything.
Possums in the autumn
and there's farm cats in the spring"

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

wrote:

Eric Wright wrote:

I recently acquired a 10 book set of Robert Louis Stevenson's works
printed in 1930. They are in very good shape with one exception: They
have green dyed cloth covers and when handling the books the dye
comes off on your fingers. Now I am not an expert on old books but I do
like to read. I really just want to be able to enjoy these fine old
volumes and take the necessary steps to preserve them. Is there
anything that
I can do to prevent this from happening or does this just happen
normally
with age? I have been searching for answers on this but have not been
able to find any. Thanks very much for your time.



You did not pay much for that set, I hope, because
it sounds to me as though a previous owner has
dyed those books after the cloth had become faded,
either to make them more attractive in a personal
library or to enhance their saleability. Frankly,
I have handled a great many old cloth books, and
never once have I had the cloth dye come off on my
fingers. That is just not one of the common things
(such as bubbled cloth covers, loose pages, and
cracked joints or hinges) which often show up in
old books, probably because permanent dyes for
cloth have long been part of the book manufacturing
processes.


Mr. Palmer
Room 314


Curiously, I have a volume, from the late 19th C., I believe, also green
in color, acquired about 35-40 years ago, that has the same problem of
leaking the green color.


Francis A. Miniter

I found the book. Dryden, Poetical Works, Appleton 1889. Even just gently
touching it now some green has come off onto my fingers.


Francis A. Miniter

That is very interesting... Could it be the type of green dye that was
used back then?

-Eric

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

wrote:

Eric Wright wrote:

I recently acquired a 10 book set of Robert Louis Stevenson's works
printed in 1930. They are in very good shape with one exception: They
have green dyed cloth covers and when handling the books the dye
comes off on your fingers. Now I am not an expert on old books but I do
like to read. I really just want to be able to enjoy these fine old
volumes and take the necessary steps to preserve them. Is there
anything that
I can do to prevent this from happening or does this just happen
normally
with age? I have been searching for answers on this but have not been
able to find any. Thanks very much for your time.




You did not pay much for that set, I hope, because
it sounds to me as though a previous owner has
dyed those books after the cloth had become faded,
either to make them more attractive in a personal
library or to enhance their saleability. Frankly,
I have handled a great many old cloth books, and
never once have I had the cloth dye come off on my
fingers. That is just not one of the common things
(such as bubbled cloth covers, loose pages, and
cracked joints or hinges) which often show up in
old books, probably because permanent dyes for
cloth have long been part of the book manufacturing
processes.


Mr. Palmer
Room 314


Curiously, I have a volume, from the late 19th C., I believe, also
green in color, acquired about 35-40 years ago, that has the same
problem of leaking the green color.


Francis A. Miniter


I found the book. Dryden, Poetical Works, Appleton 1889. Even just
gently touching it now some green has come off onto my fingers.


Francis A. Miniter

I once have ran into a set of green books where the color came off in
your hands. I later got the seller to admit that he had use a green dye
to make them look uniformly green. Early green dyes were notorious for
fading and it's not hard to find old green books with a brownish spine.
In this case a dye was used which was not set and came off. I wouldn't
be surprised if that was the case in these examples.

Charles Kroon
Ginkgo Leaf Books

Eric Wright wrote:
That is very interesting... Could it be the type of green dye that was
used back then?

-Eric

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

wrote:

Eric Wright wrote:

I recently acquired a 10 book set of Robert Louis Stevenson's works
printed in 1930. They are in very good shape with one exception: They
have green dyed cloth covers and when handling the books the dye
comes off on your fingers. Now I am not an expert on old books but I do
like to read. I really just want to be able to enjoy these fine old
volumes and take the necessary steps to preserve them. Is there
anything that
I can do to prevent this from happening or does this just happen
normally
with age? I have been searching for answers on this but have not been
able to find any. Thanks very much for your time.





You did not pay much for that set, I hope, because
it sounds to me as though a previous owner has
dyed those books after the cloth had become faded,
either to make them more attractive in a personal
library or to enhance their saleability. Frankly,
I have handled a great many old cloth books, and
never once have I had the cloth dye come off on my
fingers. That is just not one of the common things
(such as bubbled cloth covers, loose pages, and
cracked joints or hinges) which often show up in
old books, probably because permanent dyes for
cloth have long been part of the book manufacturing
processes.


Mr. Palmer
Room 314


Curiously, I have a volume, from the late 19th C., I believe, also
green in color, acquired about 35-40 years ago, that has the same
problem of leaking the green color.


Francis A. Miniter



I found the book. Dryden, Poetical Works, Appleton 1889. Even just
gently touching it now some green has come off onto my fingers.


Francis A. Miniter

Charles Kroon wrote:
I once have ran into a set of green books where the color came off in

your hands. I later got the seller to admit that he had use a green
dye
to make them look uniformly green.

Interesting. Despite another poster's example
of a very rare instance of the original publisher's
cloth dye coming off, my estimation is that if someone
has purchased a used book and finds the dye coming
off on his fingers, the odds are about fifty or
maybe one-hundred to one that the dye has been
applied by the bookseller or someone else other
than the original publisher (for the simple reason
that permanent cloth dye has been readily available
to publishers for a long, long time).


Mr. Palmer
Room 314
Early green dyes were notorious for
fading and it's not hard to find old green books with a brownish
spine.
In this case a dye was used which was not set and came off. I
wouldn't
be surprised if that was the case in these examples.

Charles Kroon
Ginkgo Leaf Books

Eric Wright wrote:
That is very interesting... Could it be the type of green dye that
was
used back then?

-Eric

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

wrote:

Eric Wright wrote:

I recently acquired a 10 book set of Robert Louis Stevenson's
works
printed in 1930. They are in very good shape with one
exception: They
have green dyed cloth covers and when handling the books the
dye
comes off on your fingers. Now I am not an expert on old books
but I do
like to read. I really just want to be able to enjoy these fine
old
volumes and take the necessary steps to preserve them. Is there

anything that
I can do to prevent this from happening or does this just
happen
normally
with age? I have been searching for answers on this but have
not been
able to find any. Thanks very much for your time.





You did not pay much for that set, I hope, because
it sounds to me as though a previous owner has
dyed those books after the cloth had become faded,
either to make them more attractive in a personal
library or to enhance their saleability. Frankly,
I have handled a great many old cloth books, and
never once have I had the cloth dye come off on my
fingers. That is just not one of the common things
(such as bubbled cloth covers, loose pages, and
cracked joints or hinges) which often show up in
old books, probably because permanent dyes for
cloth have long been part of the book manufacturing
processes.


Mr. Palmer
Room 314


Curiously, I have a volume, from the late 19th C., I believe,
also
green in color, acquired about 35-40 years ago, that has the same

problem of leaking the green color.


Francis A. Miniter



I found the book. Dryden, Poetical Works, Appleton 1889. Even
just
gently touching it now some green has come off onto my fingers.


Francis A. Miniter

Hi Bill,

In the case of my Dryden book I really do not know for sure if the dye
that is coming off was from the original publisher's cloth dye. It may
be that someone "enhanced" the dye at a later time. I would not be able
to tell the difference myself without further instruction.


Francis A. Miniter


wrote:

Charles Kroon wrote:


I once have ran into a set of green books where the color came off in





your hands. I later got the seller to admit that he had use a green


dye


to make them look uniformly green.



Interesting. Despite another poster's example
of a very rare instance of the original publisher's
cloth dye coming off, my estimation is that if someone
has purchased a used book and finds the dye coming
off on his fingers, the odds are about fifty or
maybe one-hundred to one that the dye has been
applied by the bookseller or someone else other
than the original publisher (for the simple reason
that permanent cloth dye has been readily available
to publishers for a long, long time).


Mr. Palmer
Room 314
Early green dyes were notorious for

Eric,

I once knew a bookseller who cleaned all of her cloth books with
Fredelka Formula for Fine Leather. The Fredelka restored the color of
the cloth and really made her books shine.

You might want to try some Fredelka on the rear cover of one of the
books. I think it will provide a protective coating to seal in the dye.
You can find Fredelka listed on the web. I belieive it is also listed
in the RCB FAQ.

I don't think the color of the dye has anything to do with the problem
of your green bookcloths, because I've seen the same problem with a red
bookcloth. I believe the bookcloths themselves were improperly sized
during the manufacturing process.

Bookcloths require an ingredient to strengthen the material, and to
provide a sealant for the dye. Starch and pyroxylin are two of the
ingredients used in this process. Improper sizing will allow moisture
to affect the cloth more easily, possibly causing dye runoff, or, in
your case, stained hands.

For more information on the bookcloth itself and its ingredients, here's
a link to the Etherington and Roberts Dictionary:

http://www.tinyurl.com/3sh3e


Happy New Year Everybody!

Jerry Morris

(Eric=A0Wright)
I recently acquired a 10 book set of Robert Louis Stevenson's works
printed in 1930. They are in very good shape with one exception: They
have green dyed cloth covers and when handling the books the dye comes
off on your fingers. Now I am not an expert on old books but I do like
to read. I really just want to be able to enjoy these fine old volumes
and take the necessary steps to preserve them. Is there anything that I
can do to prevent this from happening or does this just happen normally
with age? I have been searching for answers on this but have not been
able to find any. Thanks very much for your time.


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