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Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 21st 12, 04:47 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
Tony Miklos[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

On 1/20/2012 4:12 AM, g0pkh wrote:
robert;690440 Wrote:
Hi John,

Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert



On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-

Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.

Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.

John :-#)#




-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--

--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-


Hi Robert

If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.


That's odd, I've done it at least 50 times and never shorted out the
armature. What it does is removes the shorts between the commutators.
I use a dental cleaning tool to scrape out the crud.
Ads
  #22  
Old January 21st 12, 09:08 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hi Pete,

I may have sent this to you directly so my apologies if there is a
duplicate.

I only have a DMM, which gets me through most things. Anything more
involved I usually send out.

Robert


On Jan 20, 5:42*pm, g0pkh wrote:
robert;690451 Wrote:



Hi Pete,


Thanks for the link.


If cleaning between the communicator bars solves the issue of any
shorts, will the motor still work with the worn brushes or will I have
to replace them before I can test the motor?


Robert.


On Jan 20, 4:12*am, g0pkh wrote:-
robert;690440 Wrote:


-
Hi John,-
-
Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.-
-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The
carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I
paid
for the machine *lol.--
-
Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much
carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.-
-
Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.-
-
John :-#)#-
-
-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which
is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely,
then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check
the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh---
-
--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."--


Hi Robert


If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.


However you will still need two sets of brushes. You can buy them from
a
chap in Germany here.


http://www.jukebox-world.de/


He does brush sets for most of these motors.


Pete


P.S


Tell about paying more than what the machine is worth LOL
That is the problem with restoring these girls.


It seems likely that yours both had the motors replaced for duff
before
it was scrapped.


--
g0pkh-


Hi Robert

If the brushes are not too badly worn, then yes the motor will still
work.

However, I saw a picture of one of your motors which showed one brush as
completely worn to the end.

if you have two reasonable brushes out of the remaining 3 (out of both
motors of course) then give it a try.

You would be wise when testing to use an ammeter in series with the
motor to monitor the current (10A range if possible).

How are you for test gear ?
Once you get into this sort of repair you start to need the extra gear
unfortunately. A variable bench power supply is invaluable here.

Pete

--
g0pkh


  #23  
Old January 21st 12, 09:11 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hi Tony,

I may have sent this to you directly like I did with Pete so my
apologies if there is a duplicate too.

It was odd that it blew a fuse even quicker after I had cleaned
between the communicator bars.


Robert


On Jan 21, 11:47*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/20/2012 4:12 AM, g0pkh wrote:



robert;690440 Wrote:
Hi John,


Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert


On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.


Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.


John :-#)#


-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-


Hi Robert


If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.


That's odd, I've done it at least 50 times and never shorted out the
armature. *What it does is removes the shorts between the commutators.
I use a dental cleaning tool to scrape out the crud.


  #24  
Old January 25th 12, 11:14 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
Tony Miklos[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

On 1/21/2012 4:11 PM, robert wrote:
Hi Tony,

It was odd that it blew a fuse even quicker after I had cleaned
between the communicator bars.


That is odd. What did you use to clean between them?

Tony









On Jan 21, 11:47 am, Tony wrote:
On 1/20/2012 4:12 AM, g0pkh wrote:



robert;690440 Wrote:
Hi John,


Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert


On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.


Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.


John :-#)#


-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-


Hi Robert


If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.


That's odd, I've done it at least 50 times and never shorted out the
armature. What it does is removes the shorts between the commutators.
I use a dental cleaning tool to scrape out the crud.



  #25  
Old January 26th 12, 04:18 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hey Tony,

I used a small very thin straight edge precision screwdriver. It was
the only thing I had thin enough aside from a razor blade (which I did
not use).

I think I may be able to get some used motors, but the only problem is
that I'm not sure if they work or not. The person will refund my
money (minus shipping of course) if they don't work, which is very
cool.

BTW, what exactly is involved with 'rebuilding' a DC motor? I
received a quote from someone to rebuild my motors, but they said that
if the motor needs brushes, then it would be extra. I would imagine
replacing brushes would be a standard part of the rebuild. No?



Robert

On Jan 25, 6:14*pm, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/21/2012 4:11 PM, robert wrote:

Hi Tony,


It was odd that it blew a fuse even quicker after I had cleaned
between the communicator bars.


That is odd. *What did you use to clean between them?

Tony



On Jan 21, 11:47 am, Tony *wrote:
On 1/20/2012 4:12 AM, g0pkh wrote:


robert;690440 Wrote:
Hi John,


Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert


On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.


Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.


John :-#)#


-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-


Hi Robert


If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.


That's odd, I've done it at least 50 times and never shorted out the
armature. *What it does is removes the shorts between the commutators.
I use a dental cleaning tool to scrape out the crud.


  #26  
Old January 26th 12, 11:25 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
Tony Miklos[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

On 1/25/2012 11:18 PM, robert wrote:
Hey Tony,

I used a small very thin straight edge precision screwdriver. It was
the only thing I had thin enough aside from a razor blade (which I did
not use).

I think I may be able to get some used motors, but the only problem is
that I'm not sure if they work or not. The person will refund my
money (minus shipping of course) if they don't work, which is very
cool.

BTW, what exactly is involved with 'rebuilding' a DC motor? I
received a quote from someone to rebuild my motors, but they said that
if the motor needs brushes, then it would be extra. I would imagine
replacing brushes would be a standard part of the rebuild. No?



It sounds like they are not "rebuilding" the motors. They are taking
them apart, cleaning, and lubing them, which often works out quite well
but is far from a rebuild.








On Jan 25, 6:14 pm, Tony wrote:
On 1/21/2012 4:11 PM, robert wrote:

Hi Tony,


It was odd that it blew a fuse even quicker after I had cleaned
between the communicator bars.


That is odd. What did you use to clean between them?

Tony



On Jan 21, 11:47 am, Tony wrote:
On 1/20/2012 4:12 AM, g0pkh wrote:


robert;690440 Wrote:
Hi John,


Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert


On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.


Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.


John :-#)#


-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-


Hi Robert


If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.


That's odd, I've done it at least 50 times and never shorted out the
armature. What it does is removes the shorts between the commutators.
I use a dental cleaning tool to scrape out the crud.



  #27  
Old January 26th 12, 05:06 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the heads up. I appreciate it.

I found pair of used motors and a pair of rebuilt motors from separate
people, both of which are not the person who quoted me the "rebuild"
in my previous post.

The rebuilt motors are basically twice the cost of the other non-
tested motors that are just pulled from a machine. But I'm starting
to think that going the way of the rebuilt ones seems to make the most
sense as I can just plug them in and be done with it.


Robert


On Jan 26, 6:25*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/25/2012 11:18 PM, robert wrote:

Hey Tony,


I used a small very thin straight edge precision screwdriver. *It was
the only thing I had thin enough aside from a razor blade (which I did
not use).


I think I may be able to get some used motors, but the only problem is
that I'm not sure if they work or not. *The person will refund my
money (minus shipping of course) if they don't work, which is very
cool.


BTW, what exactly is involved with 'rebuilding' a DC motor? *I
received a quote from someone to rebuild my motors, but they said that
if the motor needs brushes, then it would be extra. *I would imagine
replacing brushes would be a standard part of the rebuild. *No?


It sounds like they are not "rebuilding" the motors. *They are taking
them apart, cleaning, and lubing them, which often works out quite well
but is far from a rebuild.

On Jan 25, 6:14 pm, Tony *wrote:
On 1/21/2012 4:11 PM, robert wrote:


Hi Tony,


It was odd that it blew a fuse even quicker after I had cleaned
between the communicator bars.


That is odd. *What did you use to clean between them?


Tony


On Jan 21, 11:47 am, Tony * *wrote:
On 1/20/2012 4:12 AM, g0pkh wrote:


robert;690440 Wrote:
Hi John,


Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert


On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.


Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.


John :-#)#


-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-


Hi Robert


If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.


That's odd, I've done it at least 50 times and never shorted out the
armature. *What it does is removes the shorts between the commutators.
I use a dental cleaning tool to scrape out the crud.


  #28  
Old October 1st 14, 10:53 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Appreciate all the discussion here as I've gotten an old 484 working and all greased up but it too blows the motor fuse (I already jumped the lower-amp circuit breaker). Based on the info in this post, I wanted to see how many amps are actually being drawn so I hooked my own supply to each. One was fine but the one that lifts and replaces the record was pegging the needle on the supply. I can turn it with my hand pretty easy. Well... I kept lifting the record and putting it back by reversing the polarity. Well... after about 20 times, the amp meter showed under 1.? I think that reversing the polarity caused all the charged dust in the motor to re-situate. I couldn't believe my eyes (and didn't). So I have a fuse in right now as I type and I've listened to a bunch of records with no trouble. --the fuse WAS blowing within 2 records. Note that I did NOT remove and clean the motor as the author in this thread did. I may actually try taking the jumper off of the circuit breaker.
  #29  
Old October 1st 14, 11:48 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
John Robertson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

On 10/01/2014, 2:53 PM, wrote:
Appreciate all the discussion here as I've gotten an old 484 working and all greased up but it too blows the motor fuse (I already jumped the lower-amp circuit breaker). Based on the info in this post, I wanted to see how many amps are actually being drawn so I hooked my own supply to each. One was fine but the one that lifts and replaces the record was pegging the needle on the supply. I can turn it with my hand pretty easy. Well... I kept lifting the record and putting it back by reversing the polarity. Well... after about 20 times, the amp meter showed under 1.? I think that reversing the polarity caused all the charged dust in the motor to re-situate. I couldn't believe my eyes (and didn't). So I have a fuse in right now as I type and I've listened to a bunch of records with no trouble. --the fuse WAS blowing within 2 records. Note that I did NOT remove and clean the motor as the author in this thread did. I may actually try taking the jumper off of the circuit breaker.


You really do have to take the armature out and clean between the
commutator plates. Carbon builds up over time and shorts out windings
drawing too much current and blowing fuses...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
  #30  
Old October 2nd 14, 12:26 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

I hear you loud and clear--I'm just saying that this is a weird electronic phenomena... I've been playing song after song now (30-40) and even put the circuit breaker back into action. I cleaned and lubed it in the garage (it was dropped off from a church cleanup effort). I had to jump the breaker the day I got it. It would blow the mechanical fuse every 7 songs or so. I decided to move it into the house as a nice discussion piece. I almost died getting it to my lower level by myself. Seems that the shake up must have kicked the carbon dust in the motor around and I couldn't get it to load 2 records without blowing the fuse. Now it was a big heavy embarrassing boat anchor just taking up space. But from reading this thread I was motivated to put my own supply onto the motor to see the amps. The needle completely pegged (only goes up to 3 and 20 volts output). The motor would spin and forced to stop when the record sat down. I reversed the polarity and put the record back--again the motor was forced to stop with my current still on it. I noticed that in the process of back-and-forth, back-and-forth the amps started reducing. Back-and-forth, back-and-forth it eventually showed under 1 and near 2 when the motor was forced to stop. At that point I put everything back and right now I'm blowing the ceiling off the house. Really.

Can you tell me, if I remove the motor to clean it, does the motor slide out of the gear box? Or will I have to remove that and open it up too? Thanks for all your help here. Also, this is in really nice shape. It came with an extra of every module, extra speakers, and two ice cream containers full of extra records--all in really nice condition. Can you guess at what this might all be worth?
 




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