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Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 19th 12, 01:21 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
Tony Miklos[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

On 1/18/2012 4:58 PM, robert wrote:
Thanks for the advice Rob.

I called one of the ads in the classified section of Always Jukin', my
wife's boss gave me a copy. (Thanks again, that was a great idea)
Ironically, the the guy I called about purchasing two motors,
suggested that I try a few things before spending the money for the
motors.

1. Running the motors while disconnected from each of their
respective gear mechanisms to see what would happen without a load.

I tried it and it still blew the fuse.

2. Clean the motor out:

So far I took the Gripper motor apart and it was filthy inside.
I cleaned it out but need to do the same with the carousel motor.
Once I do that I'll try it again and see what happens.


I certainly appreciate your advice. But I would like to see if there
is any way that I may be able to fix this first before having to
purchase another set of motors. On one hand this is frustrating, but
on the other, I am learning A LOT about the way these things work and
it's really quite interesting


Did you unplug both motors and see if the fuse blows without them? Did
you try plugging in one motor at a time to see which one is blowing the
fuse? It's possible but highly doubtful that both motors are bad...
unless it was used as a parts machine and the good motors taken out and
replaced with the bad ones. Besides, the two motors _never_ run at the
same time so unless the cam switches are screwed up, only one motor is
blowing the fuse at any given time. If both motors are trying to run at
the same time you have some other issues.
Ads
  #12  
Old January 19th 12, 08:38 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hi Tony,

I ran the machine for a couple of minutes with both motors
disconnected and it did not blow a fuse.

I connected the gripper motor that I had cleaned out previously and
ran the machine, only to blow the fuse within a few seconds. I
couldn't connect the carousel motor, because the brushes broke apart
during disassembly

The cam switches are aligned and from what I noticed, only one motor
runs at a time.



Robert


On Jan 19, 8:21*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/18/2012 4:58 PM, robert wrote:



Thanks for the advice Rob.


I called one of the ads in the classified section of Always Jukin', my
wife's boss gave me a copy. *(Thanks again, that was a great idea)
Ironically, the the guy I called about purchasing two motors,
suggested that I try a few things before spending the money for the
motors.


1. *Running the motors while disconnected from each of their
respective gear mechanisms to see what would happen without a load.


* * * I tried it and it still blew the fuse.


2. *Clean the motor out:


* * * So far I took the Gripper motor apart and it was filthy inside.
I cleaned it out but need to do the same with the carousel motor.
Once I do that I'll try it again and see what happens.


I certainly appreciate your advice. *But I would like to see if there
is any way that I may be able to fix this first before having to
purchase another set of motors. *On one hand this is frustrating, but
on the other, I am learning A LOT about the way these things work and
it's really quite interesting


Did you unplug both motors and see if the fuse blows without them? *Did
you try plugging in one motor at a time to see which one is blowing the
fuse? *It's possible but highly doubtful that both motors are bad...
unless it was used as a parts machine and the good motors taken out and
replaced with the bad ones. *Besides, the two motors _never_ run at the
same time so unless the cam switches are screwed up, only one motor is
blowing the fuse at any given time. *If both motors are trying to run at
the same time you have some other issues.


  #13  
Old January 19th 12, 08:48 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hi Pete,

I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.

I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.

The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine lol.


Robert

On Jan 19, 5:10*am, g0pkh wrote:
Hi Robert

A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.

I too had problems with both of these motors.

I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.

They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC

I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.

I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.

Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors) for
a short circuit.

These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.

Hope this info helps

Pete

--
g0pkh


  #14  
Old January 19th 12, 11:43 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
John Robertson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 812
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

robert wrote:
Hi Pete,

I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.

I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.

The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine lol.


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance of
a shorted motor.

Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.

John :-#)#



Robert

On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:
Hi Robert

A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.

I too had problems with both of these motors.

I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.

They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC

I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.

I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.

Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors) for
a short circuit.

These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.

Hope this info helps

Pete

--
g0pkh




--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
  #15  
Old January 20th 12, 01:36 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hi John,

Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert



On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:
robert wrote:
Hi Pete,


I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.


I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.


The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance of
a shorted motor.

Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.

John :-#)#





Robert


On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:
Hi Robert


A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.


I too had problems with both of these motors.


I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.


They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC


I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.


I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.


Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors) for
a short circuit.


These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.


Hope this info helps


Pete


--
g0pkh


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


  #16  
Old January 20th 12, 09:12 AM
g0pkh g0pkh is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by CollectingBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert View Post
Hi John,

Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert



On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:
robert wrote:
Hi Pete,


I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.


I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.


The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance of
a shorted motor.

Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.

John :-#)#





Robert


On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:
Hi Robert


A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.


I too had problems with both of these motors.


I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.


They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC


I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.


I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.


Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors) for
a short circuit.


These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.


Hope this info helps


Pete


--
g0pkh


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Hi Robert

If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.

However you will still need two sets of brushes. You can buy them from a chap in Germany here.

http://www.jukebox-world.de/

He does brush sets for most of these motors.

Pete


P.S

Tell about paying more than what the machine is worth LOL
That is the problem with restoring these girls.

It seems likely that yours both had the motors replaced for duff before
it was scrapped.

Last edited by g0pkh : January 20th 12 at 09:15 AM.
  #17  
Old January 20th 12, 03:27 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the link.

If cleaning between the communicator bars solves the issue of any
shorts, will the motor still work with the worn brushes or will I have
to replace them before I can test the motor?


Robert.





On Jan 20, 4:12*am, g0pkh wrote:
robert;690440 Wrote:



Hi John,


Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert


On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.


Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.


John :-#)#


-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-


Hi Robert

If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.

However you will still need two sets of brushes. You can buy them from a
chap in Germany here.

http://www.jukebox-world.de/

He does brush sets for most of these motors.

Pete

P.S

Tell about paying more than what the machine is worth LOL
That is the problem with restoring these girls.

It seems likely that yours both had the motors replaced for duff before
it was scrapped.

--
g0pkh


  #18  
Old January 20th 12, 08:40 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
John Robertson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 812
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

robert wrote:
Hi Pete,

Thanks for the link.

If cleaning between the communicator bars solves the issue of any
shorts, will the motor still work with the worn brushes or will I have
to replace them before I can test the motor?


Robert.


It all depends on the length and condition of the brushes. I figure a
brush is worn out when it is less than 2X as it is wide.

Victoryglass.com also has brushes if I'm not mistaken...

We have brushes but not on our web site yet.

John :-#)#






On Jan 20, 4:12 am, g0pkh wrote:
robert;690440 Wrote:



Hi John,
Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.
Robert
On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-
Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.
Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.
John :-#)#
-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--
--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-

Hi Robert

If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.

However you will still need two sets of brushes. You can buy them from a
chap in Germany here.

http://www.jukebox-world.de/

He does brush sets for most of these motors.

Pete

P.S

Tell about paying more than what the machine is worth LOL
That is the problem with restoring these girls.

It seems likely that yours both had the motors replaced for duff before
it was scrapped.

--
g0pkh




--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
  #19  
Old January 20th 12, 09:48 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hi Guys,

Just an update, I cleaned in between the communicator bars.

When I plugged the motor back to the machine, it blew the fuse
immediately. Before it would take a few seconds but this was
instant.

I think this motor is, as they would say on www.jukebox-world.de/,
"KAPUT!"



Robert



On Jan 20, 3:40*pm, John Robertson wrote:
robert wrote:
Hi Pete,


Thanks for the link.


If cleaning between the communicator bars solves the issue of any
shorts, will the motor still work with the worn brushes or will I have
to replace them before I can test the motor?


Robert.


It all depends on the length and condition of the brushes. I figure a
brush is worn out when it is less than 2X as it is wide.

Victoryglass.com also has brushes if I'm not mistaken...

We have brushes but not on our web site yet.

John :-#)#





On Jan 20, 4:12 am, g0pkh wrote:
robert;690440 Wrote:


Hi John,
Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.
Robert
On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-
Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.
Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.
John :-#)#
-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--
--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-
Hi Robert


If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.


However you will still need two sets of brushes. You can buy them from a
chap in Germany here.


http://www.jukebox-world.de/


He does brush sets for most of these motors.


Pete


P.S


Tell about paying more than what the machine is worth LOL
That is the problem with restoring these girls.


It seems likely that yours both had the motors replaced for duff before
it was scrapped.


--
g0pkh


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


  #20  
Old January 20th 12, 10:42 PM
g0pkh g0pkh is offline
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First recorded activity by CollectingBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert View Post
Hi Pete,

Thanks for the link.

If cleaning between the communicator bars solves the issue of any
shorts, will the motor still work with the worn brushes or will I have
to replace them before I can test the motor?


Robert.





On Jan 20, 4:12*am, g0pkh wrote:
robert;690440 Wrote:



Hi John,


Okay I'll give it a shot and post back.


Robert


On Jan 19, 6:43*pm, John Robertson wrote:-
robert wrote:-
Hi Pete,-
-
I took the gripper motor apart, cleaned it out polished up the
communicator and thought that would solve the problem but when I
connected it and ran the machine it still blew a fuse *The carousel
motor is beyond my repair ability so I think I'm going to have to get
a replacement anyway.-
-
I don't see the capacitors on these particular motors. *I have a
Rockola 483 that I plan on restoring (if I ever get this one done!)
that does have the caps on the motor.-
-
The kicker is that these two motors are going to cost more than I paid
for the machine *lol.-


Before you replace the motors try running a thin flat blade between
each
commutator on the armature. I have had motors that have too much carbon
jammed in between each commutator conductor leading to the appearance
of
a shorted motor.


Do not use a blade like an Exacto, you need something thin and flat
ended to scrape the bottom of the grove between each conductor.
Polishing the faces of the commutator won't help that much.


John :-#)#


-
Robert-
-
On Jan 19, 5:10 am, g0pkh wrote:-
Hi Robert--
--
A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.--
--
I too had problems with both of these motors.--
--
I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock
armatures
for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run
brilliantly.--
--
They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench
Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while
monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is
the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC--
--
I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and
consume
in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.--
--
I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had
was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the
armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the
gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then
fully regreased.--
--
Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the
suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors)
for
a short circuit.--
--
These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the
motors in my machine did not have these fitted.--
--
Hope this info helps--
--
Pete--
--
--
g0pkh--


--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."-


Hi Robert

If you do as John suggests. That may sort the armatures out.

However you will still need two sets of brushes. You can buy them from a
chap in Germany here.

http://www.jukebox-world.de/

He does brush sets for most of these motors.

Pete

P.S

Tell about paying more than what the machine is worth LOL
That is the problem with restoring these girls.

It seems likely that yours both had the motors replaced for duff before
it was scrapped.

--
g0pkh
Hi Robert

If the brushes are not too badly worn, then yes the motor will still work.

However, I saw a picture of one of your motors which showed one brush as completely worn to the end.

if you have two reasonable brushes out of the remaining 3 (out of both motors of course) then give it a try.

You would be wise when testing to use an ammeter in series with the motor to monitor the current (10A range if possible).

How are you for test gear ?
Once you get into this sort of repair you start to need the extra gear unfortunately. A variable bench power supply is invaluable here.

Pete
 




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