A collecting forum. CollectingBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CollectingBanter forum » Collecting newsgroups » Juke Boxes
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 17th 12, 01:44 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Hey Everyone,

I seem to keep blowing the "1.6 28VDC Mech" fuse within seconds when
the magazine motor or gripper motor-runs.

Because I don't have anymore 1.6A fuses I have been using 1.5A ones. I
realize that this would be more prone to blowing, but there has to be
something wrong here for it to go that quickly.

Would the motors be causing this? How can I check to see if the motors
are okay? When I turn the motors manually via the little knob on the
bottom of them, they turn easily and do not seem gummed up.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Robert
Ads
  #2  
Old January 17th 12, 02:18 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
Rob in NYC[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Robert, all I needed was "Rock-Ola" and "gripper motor" -they are
notorious for developing shorted armature turns. From the early
1950's models, right on through the later 80's. If it is blowing
quickly, that is the cause.

The only other possible cause is that the cam switches are faulty and
causing the motor to overtravel and jam. That will be obvious when
you turn the motor shaft.

Rob/NYC



  #3  
Old January 17th 12, 02:24 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

On Jan 16, 9:18*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:
Robert, all I needed was "Rock-Ola" and "gripper motor" *-they are
notorious for developing shorted armature turns. *From the early
1950's models, right on through the later 80's. If it is blowing
quickly, that is the cause.

The only other possible cause is that the cam switches are faulty and
causing the motor to overtravel and jam. *That will be obvious when
you turn the motor shaft.

Rob/NYC


Hi Rob. Thanks so much for the reply! Is there a way to fix the
motors? I tested the cam switches and they seemed okay, and I also
aligned them according to the manual. I can always replace them to be
safe.


Robert
  #4  
Old January 17th 12, 09:25 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
Rob in NYC[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Robert, motors can be rewound, while that might be the most reliable
route, it may be cheaper to locate a known-good replacement via one of
the ad's in Always Jukin http://www.alwaysjukin.com/ D/L a sample
issue and look over the classifieds -the same sellers are there every
month.

As for the microswitches, if the motor isn't overtravelling and
jamming at either end of it's travel the switches are not the problem.

If you have a meter capable of measuring amps you might hook it up in
series with the fuse, but I'am pretty sure you have the classic
problem of excessive current drain from shorted armature turns.

Rob/NYC

  #5  
Old January 17th 12, 06:29 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
John Robertson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 806
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Rob in NYC wrote:
Robert, motors can be rewound, while that might be the most reliable
route, it may be cheaper to locate a known-good replacement via one of
the ad's in Always Jukin http://www.alwaysjukin.com/ D/L a sample
issue and look over the classifieds -the same sellers are there every
month.

As for the microswitches, if the motor isn't overtravelling and
jamming at either end of it's travel the switches are not the problem.

If you have a meter capable of measuring amps you might hook it up in
series with the fuse, but I'am pretty sure you have the classic
problem of excessive current drain from shorted armature turns.

Rob/NYC


The gripper assembly may be gummed up too. This will cause the motor to
draw more current than normal.

Turning the gripper motor shaft with your fingers should operate the
gripper bow through the entire cycle - picking up and replacing records
- without feeling like it is jamming up.

The gripper arm should feel slightly loose when resting, and the record
pin should feel snappy when it is picking up the record (at rest is is
solid). The gripper arm should drop when released not go slowly down
(indicating gummed up oil/grease).

Info on taking the assembly apart is he

http://flippers.com/Rockola-tips.html

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
  #6  
Old January 17th 12, 08:06 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Thanks for the advice Rob.

I'll take a look at the ads and see if I can find the them. In the
meantume, I'm going to try taking them apart and clean them out and
see what that does. I've read that people have had success with doing
that. Either motor, gripper or magazine blow the fuse. It's just kind
of odd that BOTH motors could fail at the same time.


Robert


On Jan 17, 4:25*am, Rob in NYC wrote:
Robert, motors can be rewound, while that might be the most reliable
route, it may be cheaper to locate a known-good replacement via one of
the ad's in Always Jukinhttp://www.alwaysjukin.com/* D/L a sample
issue and look over the classifieds -the same sellers are there every
month.

As for the microswitches, if the motor isn't overtravelling and
jamming at either end of it's travel the switches are not the problem.

If you have a meter capable of measuring amps you might hook it up in
series with the fuse, but I'am pretty sure you have the classic
problem of excessive current drain from shorted armature turns.

Rob/NYC


  #7  
Old January 17th 12, 08:11 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Thanks John,

I cleaned the outside of the mechanism but have no idea as to what it
looks like inside. I'll take a look at that as well but I would think
that if the motor is easy to turn using the armature knob it wouldn't
be gummed up.


Robert

The gripper assembly may be gummed up too. This will cause the motor to
draw more current than normal.

Turning the gripper motor shaft with your fingers should operate the
gripper bow through the entire cycle - picking up and replacing records
- without feeling like it is jamming up.

The gripper arm should feel slightly loose when resting, and the record
pin should feel snappy when it is picking up the record (at rest is is
solid). The gripper arm should drop when released not go slowly down
(indicating gummed up oil/grease).

Info on taking the assembly apart is he

http://flippers.com/Rockola-tips.html

John :-#)#

--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


  #8  
Old January 18th 12, 07:06 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
Rob in NYC[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Robert, while having two defective motors may seem odd. The fact is
that they were both made by the same maker and frankly, cheaply, in
keeping with Rock-Ola's policy of simple machines that didn't cost a
lot.

The circuit involved is very simple: unfiltered DC feeding two brush
motors one at a time. If you can access a meter to actually read the
amps being consumed that will show what is going on.

It wouldn't hurt to open the motors and clean out all the carbon from
the brushes and use a small stiff brush to 'comb' out carbon from the
individual commutator segments (the steps the brushes ride on) but I
doubt that will make any significant difference.

Almost every R-O phono that I found had a larger fuse in the motor
supply and the reason as I repeatedly found was failing motors.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, there are plenty of motors
around.

Rob/NYC










I'll take a look at the ads and see if I can find the them. *In the
meantume, I'm going to try taking them apart and clean them out and
see what that does. *I've read that people have had success with doing
that. *Either motor, gripper or magazine blow the fuse. It's just kind
of odd that BOTH motors could fail at the same time.

Robert

  #9  
Old January 18th 12, 09:58 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
robert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Rockola 440 Gripper and Magazine Motor Blowing Fuses

Thanks for the advice Rob.

I called one of the ads in the classified section of Always Jukin', my
wife's boss gave me a copy. (Thanks again, that was a great idea)
Ironically, the the guy I called about purchasing two motors,
suggested that I try a few things before spending the money for the
motors.

1. Running the motors while disconnected from each of their
respective gear mechanisms to see what would happen without a load.

I tried it and it still blew the fuse.

2. Clean the motor out:

So far I took the Gripper motor apart and it was filthy inside.
I cleaned it out but need to do the same with the carousel motor.
Once I do that I'll try it again and see what happens.


I certainly appreciate your advice. But I would like to see if there
is any way that I may be able to fix this first before having to
purchase another set of motors. On one hand this is frustrating, but
on the other, I am learning A LOT about the way these things work and
it's really quite interesting


Robert




On Jan 18, 2:06*am, Rob in NYC wrote:
Robert, while having two defective motors may seem odd. The fact is
that they were both made by the same maker and frankly, cheaply, in
keeping with Rock-Ola's policy of simple machines that didn't cost a
lot.

The circuit involved is very simple: unfiltered DC feeding two brush
motors one at a time. *If you can access a meter to actually read the
amps being consumed that will show what is going on.

It wouldn't hurt to open the motors and clean out all the carbon from
the brushes and use a small stiff brush to 'comb' out carbon from the
individual commutator segments (the steps the brushes ride on) but I
doubt that will make any significant difference.

Almost every R-O phono that I found had a larger fuse in the motor




supply and the reason as I repeatedly found was failing motors.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, there are plenty of motors
around.

Rob/NYC

I'll take a look at the ads and see if I can find the them. *In the
meantume, I'm going to try taking them apart and clean them out and
see what that does. *I've read that people have had success with doing
that. *Either motor, gripper or magazine blow the fuse. It's just kind
of odd that BOTH motors could fail at the same time.


Robert


  #10  
Old January 19th 12, 10:10 AM
g0pkh g0pkh is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by CollectingBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Hi Robert

A while back I restored my first jukebox, A Rock-Ola 474 machine.

I too had problems with both of these motors.

I was really lucky and managed to find two brand new old stock armatures for them. And after a complete rebuild and regrease, they now run brilliantly.

They are 28V DC Motors. I tested mine by connecting them to a Bench Variable Power Supply unit, and wound up the voltage slowly while monitoring the current. Mine were both taking in excess of 2A which is the limit of my PSU. By the time I got to 20V DC

I found that after the rebuild the motors would run off load and consume in the area of 500mA, while at the full 28V.

I didn't have a problem with shorted turns on mine. The problem I had was that the commutators (sections where the brushes connect the armature) had a deep groove worn in them, plus the grease in the gearboxes had congealed, and needed to be cleaned out completely, then fully regreased.

Also with the armatures and brushes removed, you may like to check the suppression capacitors (tubular devices connected across the motors) for a short circuit.

These capacitors are installed to reduce motor noise. Strangely the motors in my machine did not have these fitted.

Hope this info helps

Pete
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
motor gripper and the magazine motor Funkyboye Juke Boxes 4 December 13th 10 04:18 AM
Rockola Magazine Drive Motor noise Rob Blakeslee Juke Boxes 3 February 20th 10 03:32 PM
Gripper motor gear mailman4 Juke Boxes 0 November 19th 09 06:36 AM
Wurlitzer 2200 Blowing fuses Twister Juke Boxes 0 May 28th 08 09:58 AM
WTB: gripper motor for AMI Continental II mike Juke Boxes 0 September 13th 03 06:09 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 CollectingBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.