Latin for Numismatists

I found this webpage and thought some of you ancient, English and
Commonwealth collectors might appreciate it.

http://www.vosper4coins.co.uk/rev/im...n%20for%20Numi
smatists.htm

If anyone knows of anymore sites similar I would love to know the links.


Mame

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:28:44 +1000, "Mame" wrote:

http://www.vosper4coins.co.uk/rev/im...n%20for%20Numi
smatists.htm

http://snipurl.com/8ysx

Advice to all: http://snipurl.com/ and drag the little icon with
scissors on it up to your browser's toolbar. Then, you don't even
need to type in the shortened URL.

BLReed

To e-mail me, remove the obvious spam trap.
For collector coins and supplies at fair prices: http://tinyurl.com/pt9r
Cool things and Bust Coin Forum: http://www.byronreed.com

Mame wrote:

"I found this webpage and thought some of you ancient, English and Commonwealth
collectors might appreciate it.

http://www.vosper4coins.co.uk/rev/im...ion%20for%20Nu
mismatists.htm

If anyone knows of anymore sites similar I would love to know the links."


Thanks for the link, Mame. I've bookmarked it.

From the website:

The pronunciations discussed here are the reconstructed "classical"
pronunciations. These are used by classicists today and are probably very close
to the way Romans talked during the late Republic and early Empire. There is
also "ecclesiastical Latin," which is pronounced much like Italian (this won't
be addressed further here, as it normally is not used in a numismatic context).
Finally we must not forget the common modern pronunciations that develop as
Latin words are used today. These vary significantly from country to country,
but they are unfortunately the ones you will hear most when you go to coin
shows.


For those of us who studied "ecclesiastical" or "Church" Latin, it's a
difficult task -unlearning- what was drilled into us by Sister Mary Francetta
SND, Father Bede OSB, or some eccentric old Jebbie whose name is long
forgotten. (Paging Dr. Hall...Dr. Richard Hall...) I don't know when exactly
the light went on in Catholic high schools, but in the recent (?) past,
ecclesiastical Latin gave way to classical Latin and parochial school students
were finally in step with their private/public school counterparts. When my
Latin scholar daughter read parts of the Aeneid to me, I barely understood her.
But then, she couldn't make sense of my "VAY nee, VEE dee, VEE chee" either.

Compounding this, I am often befuddled when either my husband's (male) chorus
or my (mixed voice) church choir sing a Latin hymn. You would think that
Church Latin would be the way to go, but many times the hymn is sung with an
accent peculiar to Slovenian. So instead of pronouncing "pace" as "PAH chay,"
we give it a Slovenian twist and sing "PAH tseh" (with the "eh" sounding much
like the "eh" in "eh, I could care less").

That being said, I've never really had a problem communicating my wishes to a
dealer of ancients...as long as I had a checkbook in hand. ;-)

Again, thanks for the information.



Anka ---- VENI, VIDI, VISA

On 09 Sep 2004 22:12:31 GMT, (Ankaaz) wrote:

Mame wrote:

"I found this webpage and thought some of you ancient, English and Commonwealth
collectors might appreciate it.

http://www.vosper4coins.co.uk/rev/im...ion%20for%20Nu
mismatists.htm

If anyone knows of anymore sites similar I would love to know the links."

For those of us who studied "ecclesiastical" or "Church" Latin, it's a
difficult task -unlearning- what was drilled into us by Sister Mary Francetta

Indeed - I'm impressed that a) they chose the reconstructed Classical
pronunciation and b) they went into so much depth.

A good site - thanks for the link, Mame!

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:28:44 +1000, "Mame" wrote:

If anyone knows of anymore sites similar I would love to know the links.

Here's a German/English and English/German numismatic dictionary:

http://www.muenzen-hardelt.de/dic/diction1.html

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

"Mame" wrote:
I found this webpage and thought some of you ...
If anyone knows of anymore sites similar I would love to know the links.
Mame

Not a "link," but volume one of Wayne Sayles' series has some space
devoted to this topic from Celator articles. Frank Robinson did the
Latin; I provided the Greek.

It might not seem a problem. When you _read_ you can say anything in
your head. (For instance, Ankaaz's riff on classical, church, and
Slovenian Latin.) When you try to talk to someone, it helps to have
the same accent. I think it is in the Robinson article that he tells
of the collector seeking coins of "Jee-ta" (Geta).

In The Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius tells of the emperor Vespasian
being poked at for his rural accent and coming back with a strong
"Clodius" for "Claudius" in reply. I think that if you look at Roman
coins themselves, you will find "res publica" changed to "reis
publica" about 250 AD. On the oldest coins of the town Byzantion, the
ethnic initial is the pi. This has been "explained" as an archaism,
like the I-shape for the Z-letter on Ionian coins. However, I look to
linguistics and hear the "Basha/Pasha" of modern Arabic, and figure
that about 500 BC, the natives of the town said "Pudsantion."
(The ds for Z comes from Aristotle who offered it as an analogy of how
atoms combine.)

Yet, proper pronunciations must give way to common communication. I
would have no problem at a convention finding coins of "sye-rene"
though asking about "ku-ray-nay" would be counterproductive.

Languages change and scholarly attempts to fix ancient languages at
some arbitrary point must give way to reality.

Michael
"miH-ah-el"

Michael, what does the capital H under your name stand for? Normally, it is
My-kell -- the H mystifies me.

As to Basha/Pasha in Arabic, both are correct. Pure Arabic does not have
the "P" sound, so persons who have grown up with Arabic without encountering
European languages will pronounce the "P" as a "B", while others will
pronounce it correctly.

Tony

"Michael E. Marotta" wrote in message
om...
"Mame" wrote:
I found this webpage and thought some of you ...
If anyone knows of anymore sites similar I would love to know the links.
Mame

Not a "link," but volume one of Wayne Sayles' series has some space
devoted to this topic from Celator articles. Frank Robinson did the
Latin; I provided the Greek.

It might not seem a problem. When you _read_ you can say anything in
your head. (For instance, Ankaaz's riff on classical, church, and
Slovenian Latin.) When you try to talk to someone, it helps to have
the same accent. I think it is in the Robinson article that he tells
of the collector seeking coins of "Jee-ta" (Geta).

In The Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius tells of the emperor Vespasian
being poked at for his rural accent and coming back with a strong
"Clodius" for "Claudius" in reply. I think that if you look at Roman
coins themselves, you will find "res publica" changed to "reis
publica" about 250 AD. On the oldest coins of the town Byzantion, the
ethnic initial is the pi. This has been "explained" as an archaism,
like the I-shape for the Z-letter on Ionian coins. However, I look to
linguistics and hear the "Basha/Pasha" of modern Arabic, and figure
that about 500 BC, the natives of the town said "Pudsantion."
(The ds for Z comes from Aristotle who offered it as an analogy of how
atoms combine.)

Yet, proper pronunciations must give way to common communication. I
would have no problem at a convention finding coins of "sye-rene"
though asking about "ku-ray-nay" would be counterproductive.

Languages change and scholarly attempts to fix ancient languages at
some arbitrary point must give way to reality.

Michael
"miH-ah-el"

Tony wrote:

"Michael, what does the capital H under your name stand for? Normally, it is
My-kell -- the H mystifies me."


Have you read The Da Vinci Code?

;-)



Anka

"A.E. Gelat" wrote
Michael, what does the capital H under your name stand for? Normally, it is
My-kell -- the H mystifies me.

As to Basha/Pasha in Arabic, both are correct. Pure Arabic does not have
the "P" sound, so persons who have grown up with Arabic without encountering
European languages will pronounce the "P" as a "B", while others will
pronounce it correctly.
Tony

"miH-ah-el"
Mich with the ch aspirated as in German or Scots. It is often
indicated with the capital H. Three syllables are required to
pronounce Michael correctly. I only got to say it that way in German
and Arabic classes.

I only took one class in Arabic. The teacher told a joke about the
P/B. A student got a low grade, say a C+, in English and asked why
and his professor said it was because of his Ps and he replied
indignantly, "My Bs are berfect!"

Michael

Thanks, Mee-kha-ell

Tony

"Michael E. Marotta" wrote in message
om...
"A.E. Gelat" wrote
Michael, what does the capital H under your name stand for? Normally,
it is
My-kell -- the H mystifies me.

As to Basha/Pasha in Arabic, both are correct. Pure Arabic does not
have
the "P" sound, so persons who have grown up with Arabic without
encountering
European languages will pronounce the "P" as a "B", while others will
pronounce it correctly.
Tony

"miH-ah-el"
Mich with the ch aspirated as in German or Scots. It is often
indicated with the capital H. Three syllables are required to
pronounce Michael correctly. I only got to say it that way in German
and Arabic classes.

I only took one class in Arabic. The teacher told a joke about the
P/B. A student got a low grade, say a C+, in English and asked why
and his professor said it was because of his Ps and he replied
indignantly, "My Bs are berfect!"

Michael