Q: Art stamps on the Internet ??

Mette, I have started reading these postings on this subject just today, so
if I am asking questions that have been raised before, I apologize. What is
Copy Dan? Is it a registered company, a non-profit organization or what?
Did it need government approval? In the USA, there are numerous groups that
telephone people asking for donations to buy special protective equipment
for the police, or to buy toys for poor children or for similar causes.
These are scams. It turns out that they are a crooked business. In some
cases, they keep all the money, in others, they give only 10% to the group
they are helping. These accept that, as they consider it better than
nothing. The Better Business Bureaus advise people not to contribute to any
of these scams.

Tony

"amesh" wrote in message
k...
"A.E. Gelat" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Mette, why are you tackling this alone? There are hundreds, maybe
thousands, of people like you with that problem. Collective action is
required. Have you consulted a lawyer friend about what he thinks? It
will cost you nothing.

Tony, I received the letter with the ultimatum from Copy-Dan only
yesterday, Saturday, so there has been no time to consult anybody so far.
I need no lawyer friends, but a super professonal barrister, one who is
specialized in copyright legislation and intellectual properties, and who
has absolutely no connection with me in daily life, in order to stay
totally objective. This is not a case about my person, but a case about
principal philatelic interests. I have made up my own thoughts and
arguments, and am ready for a meeting during this coming week. We shall
see what happens.

Thanks for your support :-)
Mette





Tony

"amesh" wrote in message
k...
Thanks to all of you for your immense support, both here on this group
and privately. I never realized that I had so many friends out there,
both among the regulars on RCSD and among the lurkers :-) I shall now
hide away for a while and think the situation over before taking any
actkon. I have some ideas, but need to air them in connection with
legal advice. A rather turbulent weekend is over, starting with that
infamous letter on Saturday morning!

For the moment the files in question are removed, and life goes on. The
whole thing is not sooo disastrous, as I can still show any artist in
any context up to 1935, provided that the artist involved was dead in
1935 or earlier; from next year until 1936, and so on. I will for sure
not be "out of the market" because of this! ;-)

Thanks again to all of you, and
Best regards
Mette



"amesh" skrev i en meddelelse
k...
This is an ooold question, raised by me about 2-3 years ago, but here
goes again.

I have recently been contacted by the Danish Copyright Organisation
(Copy-Dan), who has notified me that according to European copyright
legislation it is not allowed to show stamps or philatelic material on
the Internet, insofar such stamps depict artworks by artists who were
still alive within the latest 70 years. Such material may only be shown
in public on condition that an explicit permission has been obtained
from the artist's estate, or if a substantial due is paid to Copy-Dan
to protect the estate's (or the still living artist's) legal rights.

Example 1.
Pablo Picasso died in 1973. His art works as a whole are protected
from being shown in public until 70 years after his death, i.e. they
can only be shown on the Internet or other public exhibitions in 2043
(!), unless the exhibitor can provide a written permission from the
estate (or the copyright owner) or pays a *very* substantial due to
Copy-Dan for the permission (for a limited period of 1 month). Any art
work -- whether on stamps or not -- may not be reproduced without the
explicit written permission of the estate, or payment of dues to
Copy-Dan for the permission.

Example 2.
Arnold Machin died in 1999. The case is the same as for Picasso, and
stamps designed by Machin may not be shown on the Internet or elsewhere
in the public before 2069.

Esample 3:
A living post war artist, who has had the luck of having one of his art
works published on a stamp by a postal administration (of whichever
nationality), can not have his/her art work on the stamp shown in
public until 70 years after his death (whenever that may be). Given
that he/she is still alive and may easily live for another 30 years,
his work on stamps is not admissible to the public for the nest 100
years -- even when issued legally on a stamp !!!

It is unimportant to Copy-Dan that stamps and philatelic material may
be legally issued by a national post office for postal purposes.
Copy-Dan does not consider the issuing postal administration (of
whichever nationality) the legal copyright owner with regard to showing
art stamps and related philatelic material on the Internet or special
museum exhibits, as long as the artist is still alive or hasn't been
dead for at least 70 years. The rigid interpretation is that the artist
must have passed away 70 years prior to the issues in question -- if
not, either the exhibitor produces a written permission from the artist
/ his estate, or pays his dues as settled by Copy-Dan.
I know of a recent case in Great Britain, where the National Gallery in
London had planned an exhibit of the Art Nouveau artist Alfons Mucha in
collaboration with the Czech National Gallery. The exhibit was stopped
by Mucha's estate, claiming that Mucha died "only" in 1939, and that
the exhibit could therefore not be shown legally before 2009. There
are other similar cases in Europe, based on this rigid interpretation,
which have nearly ruined the exhibitors who have worked in good faith.

Copy-Dan has sent me a looong list of sister-organisations throughout
the world, and notified me that they will chase anyone in any country
(through their network) offending the interpretation of the current
copyright legislation, which is applicable within the EU and all
affiliated nations in Europe and the Mediterranean Area.

How are things working in *your* country?
--
Best regards
Ann Mette Heindorff (Mette)
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Perhaps Victor could transpose the text,
and do a philatelists version here,
The broadsheet announcing a reduced Mette on the internet
http://cjoint.com/data/godtxP4YZf.htm

Copyright does not apply to images used of an item for sale. "Fair use" also
permits the use of copyrighted works for research and educational purposes,
which I think applies to almost any use of stamp images on web pages. Here
are a couple of web page links which talk a little about "fair use."

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

http://www.cetus.org/fair6.html


Cheers,

Ted

wrote in message
...
On 12 Jun 2005 07:55:43 -0700, wrote:

-- How about the myriad books that include images of stamps?

Auction catalogs, for one.

-- How about illustrated listings of stamps for sale or auction?

Oops... BIG ONE!

"Rodney" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Perhaps Victor could transpose the text,
and do a philatelists version here,
The broadsheet announcing a reduced Mette on the internet
http://cjoint.com/data/godtxP4YZf.htm

he he he :-) This applies exactly to my infuriated mood right now :-)
I might even consider making my own philatelist version ;-)

Mette

"Ted Tyszka" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Copyright does not apply to images used of an item for sale. "Fair use"
also permits the use of copyrighted works for research and educational
purposes, which I think applies to almost any use of stamp images on web
pages. Here are a couple of web page links which talk a little about "fair
use."

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

http://www.cetus.org/fair6.html

As said elsewhere in this thread, the fair use doctrine is interpretated
differently by the authorities and the users. I know of a similar case in
Germany where the philatelist is in exactly the same situation as me, and
has been forced to remove some of his website by the same ultimatum as I was
given. "Either you pay, or you remove that artist". This happened some
years ago; I have been lucky enough not to be "hi-jacked" much earlier.

Research and educational purposes do not -- according to the authorities --
apply to a website like mine or my German colleague's, as we are working
ourselves systematically through art and art history. The ONLY factor that
counts to the authorities is whether the artist was dead in 1935 or later,
so that the life+70 years limit can be maintained. Next year the limit is
defined by 1936, and so on.

Never mind, my site will continue with this limit.

Cheers
Mette

"Ted Tyszka" wrote in message
...
Copyright does not apply to images used of an item for sale. "Fair
use" also
permits the use of copyrighted works for research and educational
purposes,
which I think applies to almost any use of stamp images on web
pages. Here
are a couple of web page links which talk a little about "fair use."

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

http://www.cetus.org/fair6.html


Cheers,

Ted


The USA interpretation of fair use does not apply in Denmark (or many
other countries come to that).

Douglas

I was telling my son, Paul, about Mette's problem. He has been
interested in copyright issues for some time, both as a fiction
writer/essayist/broadcaster and a businessman with a web site that
contains a great deal of professional writing pertaining to massage
therapy. He suggests that the copyright laws under which Copy-Dan
operates are a case of good intentions having unintended outcomes. It
is hard to imagine that any of the artists represented on Mette's web
site would be anything but pleased at having thier life's work so
broadly advertised in a non-commercial manner.

Bob

skrev i en meddelelse
oups.com...

I was telling my son, Paul, about Mette's problem. He has been
interested in copyright issues for some time, both as a fiction
writer/essayist/broadcaster and a businessman with a web site that
contains a great deal of professional writing pertaining to massage
therapy. He suggests that the copyright laws under which Copy-Dan
operates are a case of good intentions having unintended outcomes. It
is hard to imagine that any of the artists represented on Mette's web
site would be anything but pleased at having thier life's work so
broadly advertised in a non-commercial manner.

Bob, this is exactly the opinion of the barrister who is preparing the
future case, and who has added that the law is at present administered the
most "easy" way, namely sticking rigidly to the life + 70 year limit,
without consideration of "fair use" for educational purposes.

But life goes on, and as far as I am concerned, they can have it their own
rotten way :-) My site continues with the limitation they have imposed, and
I will continue setting up new pages and improve the existing ones.

Best regards, also to Paul :-)
Mette

But life goes on, and as far as I am concerned, they can have it their own
rotten way :-) My site continues with the limitation they have imposed,
and
I will continue setting up new pages and improve the existing ones.

Best regards, also to Paul :-)
Mette


Mette:

I truly hope that your barrister friend is willing to take on the cause pro
bono (or at the very least, for a minor fee) and fight it as far as it can
go. As you've described it, what happened to you absolutely reeks of
blackmail.

As Edmund Burke put it, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is
that good men do nothing.”

Or to make it politically correct, "that good people do nothing."

Fight on, Mette! Fight on!

Mike

"Douglas Myall" wrote in message
...

"Ted Tyszka" wrote in message
...
Copyright does not apply to images used of an item for sale. "Fair
use" also
permits the use of copyrighted works for research and educational
purposes,
which I think applies to almost any use of stamp images on web
pages. Here
are a couple of web page links which talk a little about "fair use."

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

http://www.cetus.org/fair6.html


Cheers,

Ted


The USA interpretation of fair use does not apply in Denmark (or many
other countries come to that).

Douglas

Perfectly true.

The USA interpretation surely applies to all pages on servers located in the
USA. And, because the competition is huge there, the web hosting prices can
be there very, very interesting.

This practically solves all the problems related to COPY-DAN & Co.

Vive the Internet!

--
Victor Manta

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