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World Coins - Claim of "Finest Known" and PCGS's "Added Value"?



 
 
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Old April 1st 09, 03:40 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Nick Knight
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Default World Coins - Claim of "Finest Known" and PCGS's "Added Value"?

In , on 03/29/2009
at 03:14 PM, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com said:

What value is the claim of "Finest Known" in this context? To me, it
seems almost deceiving, yet in a technically accurate way, if the
preposition "by PCGS" was added. I've just not seen PCGS
certification as a popular trend in the Taler market, so this claim
seems out-of-place. Anyone else?


The coin is probably included in a PCGS population report. But without
further information, the claim is worth very little.


Well, that's what he admitted in his reply. My question is "what does that
mean?". How many Talers does PCGS actually slab? It's a tiny, small
percentage of the overall market, I'm sure. Can I sell some of my Talers
and claim they are the "finest known", because in my small world, these are
the best I've seen?

I suppose I should get myself a look at a recent population report.

That said, the large thalers have become one of the favorite targets of the
Chinese counterfeiters, and their products are extremely deceptive.
Certification is mandatory. Buy one raw from a stranger at your peril.


Yes, this is very unfortunate. One of the things I've enjoyed about my
Taler collection is that they all fit into a relatively small box, and I can
handle them. Well, when I visit them at the bank, or buy new ones to join
their cousins at the bank. I guess that's unfortunate too. sigh, why do
I bother, then?

I really don't like slabbed Talers. Particularly those huge gobs of plastic
that NGC started to use. I can't find a picture online, so I'll hope that
the size never caught on. A previous post of mine referenced these at
9"x3", but I'm not sure from where that measurement came.

But you're right, those Chinese fakes are worrisome. Some of them are easy
to spot on eBay, but you wonder about those that aren't, and how long it
will take the "common fakes" to work their way into the domestic system. I
want to see one in-person to see how hard they are to spot. I just don't
know if I can collect these in slabs, tho.

#2: Do Krause values tend to be accurate reflections of the prices
you have to pay for an accurately graded world coin? Or, is there
some percentage (under 100) that can typically be applied to get a
more realistic value or retail cost?


I don't think a blanket statement is at all appropriate here. Krause
prices are way too high for some items, way too low for others. I've had
numerous conversations with Tom Michael about this, but he is one person
responsible for all the pricing in a stack of coin catalogs a foot and a
half high.


My perception has them usually way too high. But I'm sure there are cases
that fall the other way. If I actually owned a late-model book, I would
probably use it and be able to offer a more balanced opinion . What I do
know is that by using my old, old Draskovic(s) and a copy of Krause's
Catalogue of Crowns and Talers AND German Coins, I can get a pretty good
picture of relative values between coins. For me, this is good enough when
considering a handful of potential purchases and trying to determine the
"better buy". Ok, so it may not actually be, but I feel good about it when
I get home and then to the bank


#3 and finally, I think: If a Morgan dollar had such an obvious mark
on it (the ding at 6:00 on the obverse), would PCGS grade it as an
AU55 with no other clarifying notations?


PCGS does not grade any coin with clarifying notations, as do ANACS, NCS,
and SEGS. The slightest defect will get some coins slabbed "genuine"
while others with gross defects end up graded. In spite of all the
pontifications of the pontificators, I have yet to see any consistency in
this regard.


That was part of my experience mentioned earlier when trying to get my 4
collector's club coins graded. I still can't tell how they pick and choose,
but in a way I'm glad they offer such varience. I've purchased some wicked
looking MS60 coins and been under-impressed with many MS63 examples
(specifically, US Capped Bust Halves). The fact that there are many nice
looking MS60-62 coins to be had amongst many more dogs has provided me with
a nice collection at a reasonable cost. Hmmmm. Thinking about it, I
haven't added an MS-level bustie to my collection for a couple of years now.
Well, they seem to be coming back down in price again. I'm not sure if
that's good news or bad news for me ... I'll be optimistic. This time.



Nick
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