"Real" Money

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...
I refer you to Autocar's website. If it was just my opinion the roads
here would be full of American cars but I see more Ferraris, about two a
year, than I do American cars.

That's because you don't get out much, Billy. Reading those auto
magazines and websites doesn't give the full picture.

I don't get out much, that's a laugh, I've driven about 1,500,000 miles so
as usuual you make statements without engaging your brain first.

How many miles have you driven?



http://www.autocar.co.uk/Home.aspx

It's shocking that residents of the USA are unaware of the low regard for
American cars in Europe, why is this the case, is it the ostrich syndrome
by the car makers? Billy

You may find a couple Americans who actually care what Europeans think of
American brands, but I doubt anyone here would be shocked. Why should
they care? And are you now a spokesman for all Europeans, too?


The problem for American car makers is that more and more Americans have the
same opinion of American cars as Europeans do, that's why Ford are in deep
trouble with no way out. They should have realised years ago that a smaller
more efficient car was going to be needed, if they had looked to see what
was happening Europe car wise they would have known this. Billy


"Ed Hendricks" wrote in message
. ..
note.boy wrote:

American cars don't sell overseas because we have corners in Europe
and American cars go round corners very badly, and the interior
quality is dreadful, and they use too much fuel, and most of them are
very ugly. Billy


What a snob you are! That statement is so full of BS that it smells.
Are you trying to **** off those non-European folks in this group by
deliberately using generalizations and unfounded claims? First of all,
you imply that there is no "overseas" except Europe. And that there are
no "corners" in the US. And that ALL US made cars are poor quality, gas
guzzling and ugly. All of which, of course, reflect a subjective
opinion. One person's "dreadful and ugly" is another person's dream
machine. I certainly agree that many US car models display a need for
improvement......no vehicle from any country is perfect. But, being a
Capitalist, I prefer to let the market drive those changes.....not the
opinion of someone in the UK.

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"Aram H. Haroutunian" wrote in message
...

"Aram H. Haroutunian" wrote in message
...
Methinks these are all good questions. The answer, I believe, is a
fairly
simple one.
I think that our leadership believes that our currency has been stable
for
so long that
it represents the symbol of trustworthiness worldwide, and that any
attempt
to alter
that symbolic imagery would be harmful to the fiscal reputation of the
US.
I would tend to agree
if it weren't for the present leadership's cavalier attitude toward the
rest
of the world
today about things that really matter. :-(
Aram.
=======================
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
LBJ eliminated silver coinage?

BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
Kennedy half dollar was.

GFH


I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin
"real"
money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the
planet.

So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations
on
the
planet and come to this conclusion, eh?

Mr. Jaggers

After reading through almost this entire thread, I was struck by the
thought
that
this kind of discussion had taken place a lot several years ago. I have
not
seen the figure
of an estimated five hundred million dollars per year, if we stopped
printing one dollar
notes, would be saved by the US government. If the participants in this
thread were to
google a discussion of "one dollar bills" and the "elimination of the one
cent coin" or words
to that effect, I believe that the "defenders" of the USA will find that
the
majority of the
participants, Americans all, tended to agree with "noteboy." I didn't
get
this from google,
by the way. I am relying on my memory. Those threads took place before
James, Joe, and
Bruce came aboard, IIRC. The "us against him" feel of this thread kept
causing me to
think, "Haven't I seen this all before?" The thread did expand, however,
so
there is more
to think about than before, but the basic issue of the cent and dollar
still
remains
paramount. But before, the model was NOT the UK. It was Canada. They
successfully
dealt with the issue of the one and two dollar notes disappearing in
favor
of the Loonie
and the Twonie, and have rightfully bragged about their success ever
since.
We seem
to shoot ourselves in the foot here, partly from a lack of competent
leadership, and partly
because we fear change or are so perceived by our political leaders. The
dollar coin
programs are magnificent examples of our ineptitude.
First, we develop a dollar coin with edge reeding and a silvery color,
close
enough in
diameter to the quarter dollar that many people complained that they
misspent the dollar
coin thinking it was a quarter. Three years later, we stopped minting
them.
Eighteen years after that (1999), we made some more of them. Again the
outcry.
"Too much like the quarter!" So we try to fix it. We retain the same
diameter (so that
the vending industry wouldn't have to revamp their vending machines) and
the
same
electronic signature, but change the edge from reeded to smooth. And the
color from
silvery to golden. Then, we advertise these new dollars all over the
place.
We award a
contract to Walmart to distribute these coin in their stores. Of course,
Walmart is under
the impression that there is a limited supply, and that these are
collectors' coins and act
accordingly. The banks avoid the issue. The SBA's (remember- the ones
confused with quarters)
are then commingled with the SAC's in the channels of commerce, and we
have
just upscrewed
the solution to the problem. Then, there is a congressional hearing
about
why the dollar coin
isn't circulating. Wasn't it Joe Biden who chaired the inquiry? The
mint
or treasury (I can't
remember clearly- it was a woman) flat out lied about the coins'
availability and the purity
of the supply available. Nobody ever challenged her testimony, nay, no
one
seemed to notice.
That really sticks in my craw. Anyway, enough of my rant. Today is my
birthday. I have
turned into the curmudgeon I used to despise, I fear.
Aram.

Happy birthday, Aram, and many happy returns! And welcome to
curmudgeonhood!

As far as the cent and the dollar, and paper vs. plastic vs. metal are all
concerned, I really don't have a dog in the race. I feel that there are
so many more important things in numismatics, and certainly in the larger
world, to worry about, and so I had no intention of jumping into this
fray. At one point, though, the criticism became ad nationem (MY nationem)
and later, as others jumped in, ad hominem.

You are correct, even a relative newcomer such as I (3 years residence
here) can remember at least a couple past threads where these topics were
raised, but I don't remember them taking on quite this tone of
America-bashing.

James


If you are referring to me it's American Goverment bashing and not America
bashing, although some are unable, or unwilling, to see the difference and
have taken it personally.

If I didn't like America would I have visited the place three times? Three
11,000 mile round trips, that's a lot of effort to visit a place that I
don't like. :-)

The level of service in the USA makes the service in the UK look like
something from the stone age. Billy

note.boy wrote:
Is that a tiny USA gallon? Billy


Yep. It's a huge USA mile too. :-)

You were the one who introduced the discussion in miles and gallons. I'm
surprised you didn't convert it to kilometers and liters. BTW, the
speedometer on my Prius is an LCD display. There is a button you can push
that changes the display from MPH to KPH.........in case you are inclined to
drive to Europe. :-)

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

"note.boy" wrote in message
news



I have a friend who is a travel agent and he books my foreign holidays for
me, on our four flights from Glasgow to New York then on the Las Vegas and
back again we had seats in the emergency exit row that has bags of leg
room, try doing that on the internet. :-) Billy

Well I can do that actually. I have Platinum status on Northwest Airlines
and can choose whatever seats I want. There are some seats where, 24 hours
before the flight, no one can choose them without paying extra $$$. Unless
you have status :-)

This works for KLM and Continental as well.

Senate hearing was chaired by Byron Dorgan.

Fed spokesperson was Louise Roseman. She touted availability of pure golden dollar boxes
by banks/financial institutions is requested instead of commingled dollar coins. This
policy changed just a couple of months after her testimony (very annoying).

http://www.moneyfactory.gov/newmoney...ouiseRoseman50

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boardd...17/default.htm

And for something more recent:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boardd...19/default.htm

I know there is more out there including many GAO reports that I've provided links to in
the past.

Here are a couple of goodies:
http://www.frbservices.org/Cash/commemcoin.html

http://www.frbservices.org/FedFlash/....html#article3

http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/mint...ams/Mailer.pdf

-Fred Shecter
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQ...shreadv ector
--
"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.
http://www.sirius.com/


"Aram H. Haroutunian" wrote in message
...

"Aram H. Haroutunian" wrote in message
...
Methinks these are all good questions. The answer, I believe, is a fairly
simple one.
I think that our leadership believes that our currency has been stable for
so long that
it represents the symbol of trustworthiness worldwide, and that any
attempt
to alter
that symbolic imagery would be harmful to the fiscal reputation of the US.
I would tend to agree
if it weren't for the present leadership's cavalier attitude toward the
rest
of the world
today about things that really matter. :-(
Aram.
=======================
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
LBJ eliminated silver coinage?

BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
Kennedy half dollar was.

GFH


I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin
"real"
money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the
planet.

So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations on
the
planet and come to this conclusion, eh?

Mr. Jaggers

After reading through almost this entire thread, I was struck by the thought
that
this kind of discussion had taken place a lot several years ago. I have not
seen the figure
of an estimated five hundred million dollars per year, if we stopped
printing one dollar
notes, would be saved by the US government. If the participants in this
thread were to
google a discussion of "one dollar bills" and the "elimination of the one
cent coin" or words
to that effect, I believe that the "defenders" of the USA will find that the
majority of the
participants, Americans all, tended to agree with "noteboy." I didn't get
this from google,
by the way. I am relying on my memory. Those threads took place before
James, Joe, and
Bruce came aboard, IIRC. The "us against him" feel of this thread kept
causing me to
think, "Haven't I seen this all before?" The thread did expand, however, so
there is more
to think about than before, but the basic issue of the cent and dollar still
remains
paramount. But before, the model was NOT the UK. It was Canada. They
successfully
dealt with the issue of the one and two dollar notes disappearing in favor
of the Loonie
and the Twonie, and have rightfully bragged about their success ever since.
We seem
to shoot ourselves in the foot here, partly from a lack of competent
leadership, and partly
because we fear change or are so perceived by our political leaders. The
dollar coin
programs are magnificent examples of our ineptitude.
First, we develop a dollar coin with edge reeding and a silvery color, close
enough in
diameter to the quarter dollar that many people complained that they
misspent the dollar
coin thinking it was a quarter. Three years later, we stopped minting them.
Eighteen years after that (1999), we made some more of them. Again the
outcry.
"Too much like the quarter!" So we try to fix it. We retain the same
diameter (so that
the vending industry wouldn't have to revamp their vending machines) and the
same
electronic signature, but change the edge from reeded to smooth. And the
color from
silvery to golden. Then, we advertise these new dollars all over the place.
We award a
contract to Walmart to distribute these coin in their stores. Of course,
Walmart is under
the impression that there is a limited supply, and that these are
collectors' coins and act
accordingly. The banks avoid the issue. The SBA's (remember- the ones
confused with quarters)
are then commingled with the SAC's in the channels of commerce, and we have
just upscrewed
the solution to the problem. Then, there is a congressional hearing about
why the dollar coin
isn't circulating. Wasn't it Joe Biden who chaired the inquiry? The mint
or treasury (I can't
remember clearly- it was a woman) flat out lied about the coins'
availability and the purity
of the supply available. Nobody ever challenged her testimony, nay, no one
seemed to notice.
That really sticks in my craw. Anyway, enough of my rant. Today is my
birthday. I have
turned into the curmudgeon I used to despise, I fear.
Aram.

"note.boy" wrote in message
...
As far as the cent and the dollar, and paper vs. plastic vs. metal are
all concerned, I really don't have a dog in the race. I feel that there
are so many more important things in numismatics, and certainly in the
larger world, to worry about, and so I had no intention of jumping into
this fray. At one point, though, the criticism became ad nationem (MY
nationem) and later, as others jumped in, ad hominem.

You are correct, even a relative newcomer such as I (3 years residence
here) can remember at least a couple past threads where these topics were
raised, but I don't remember them taking on quite this tone of
America-bashing.

James


If you are referring to me it's American Goverment bashing and not America
bashing, although some are unable, or unwilling, to see the difference and
have taken it personally.

If I didn't like America would I have visited the place three times?
Three 11,000 mile round trips, that's a lot of effort to visit a place
that I don't like. :-)

The level of service in the USA makes the service in the UK look like
something from the stone age. Billy

This thread may have now achieved the status of the longest in rcc history,
I don't know. Regardless, I don't really care to review the whole thing. I
do remember jumping in at about the point where you summarily badmouthed ALL
American cars. When I asked for evidence to support several of your various
claims, you squirmed, waved your hands, and made further generalizations.
Once you were out of ideas you resorted to name-calling ("numpty" if I'm not
mistaken). But today is a new day. Let's move on. My preference is that
we do so as friends.

James

note.boy wrote:
"Ed Hendricks" wrote in message
. ..
note.boy wrote:
I refer you to Autocar's website. If it was just my opinion the
roads here would be full of American cars but I see more Ferraris,
about two a year, than I do American cars.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/Home.aspx

It's shocking that residents of the USA are unaware of the low
regard for American cars in Europe, why is this the case, is it the
ostrich syndrome by the car makers? Billy

This whole concept of "American" cars vs "European" cars vs
"Japanese" cars, etc is all crap anyway. Virtually all cars
nowadays are "composite" cars. I can't think of one popular car (one
that is purchased in large numbers) that is produced completely in
one country from parts manufacted entirely in that country. Most of
the largest automobile corporations are also partly owned by
"foreign" interests (whatever that might mean to a particular corp).
Look at Daimler/Chrysler and the alliances between "American"
companies and Japanese/Korean auto manufacturers for engines and
other parts. A large number of "American" cars are assembled
outside of the US from parts manufactured in Japan, Canada, Mexico,
etc. etc. And my Toyota Camry was manufactured in
Kentucky........from parts made in the U.S., Japan, Korea, Canada,
Mexico, etc. IMO, various national "labels" are no longer of a
great deal of value in vehicle identification. --
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks



You are obviously unaware of the term "brand value", a BMW made in
Alabama is still a BMW and is still sold for a premium price, it's
not where it's made, or where the parts come from, that determines
the price, and whether it's an asprinational brand or not, but the
badge on the bonnet.

I am not "obviously" anything! I am perfectly aware of the perceived value
in brand names. However, until now, nothing has been discussed about value.
Your claim was in reference to the poor quality of "American" cars. No
mention had previously been made of cost or value. How did you get off on
the price rant?


If BMW thought that the workers in Alabama could not turn out a
vehicle to their exacting quality standards they would not have a
factory there.
There's a limit to how much a non premium car maker can charge for
one of their cars, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes can sell cars all day
long priced at £50,000 for example.

How many cars could Citroen, Renault or Nissan sell at that price
bracket? Not many as they are not seen as a premium brand.

There you go with the generalities again! Not seen by whom as a premium
brand, you? Almost all major brand names make at least one high-end model
that sells for big bucks. Sometimes it's a luxury model, sometimes a sports
model, sometimes an SUV, but just because a car doesn't have a prestigious
European placard on the "bonnet" doesn't automatically make it an "cheap"
car.


The Ford Mondeo is almost as good a car as a BMW 3 series but if Ford
tried to get the same amount of money for one as BMW get for a
similar specced 3 series sales would dry up. Billy



--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

"PC" wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

And many people associate it with foul-smelling truck and bus exhausts
and any 20-year old Mercedes diesels that remain in use.

Growing up my neighbor bought a used Mercedes diesel and is still driving
it 20 years later.

I know they do seem to last a long time, usually rusting out first before
the engine quits. Maybe there's an unwritten stigma against junking a
Mercedes, no matter what. All I know is that every old diesel Mercedes I
see on the road belches smelly smoke on acceleration. Not many other old
diesels on the road to compete with it.

Bruce

note.boy wrote:

I don't get out much, that's a laugh, I've driven about 1,500,000
miles so as usuual you make statements without engaging your brain
first.
How many miles have you driven?

Careful here, Billy. You may be out of your league comparing miles driven
with an American. Due to the distances invloved, there are people in Texas,
for example, who drive farther to see their dentist than most people in the
British Isles drive in a week. :-)

The problem for American car makers is that more and more Americans
have the same opinion of American cars as Europeans do, that's why
Ford are in deep trouble with no way out. They should have realised
years ago that a smaller more efficient car was going to be needed,
if they had looked to see what was happening Europe car wise they
would have known this. Billy

This is the second or third time you have implied that Ford doesn't make a
small, relatively fuel-efficient car. Are you under the impression that
Ford only makes large gas guzzling cars in the US? Surely you are not that
ill informed.


--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

"PC" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
news



I have a friend who is a travel agent and he books my foreign holidays
for me, on our four flights from Glasgow to New York then on the Las
Vegas and back again we had seats in the emergency exit row that has bags
of leg room, try doing that on the internet. :-) Billy

Well I can do that actually. I have Platinum status on Northwest Airlines
and can choose whatever seats I want. There are some seats where, 24
hours before the flight, no one can choose them without paying extra $$$.
Unless you have status :-)

This works for KLM and Continental as well.


If I were you I would choose the co-pilot's seat. :-) Billy