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Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 1st 08, 02:15 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Nick Knight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 496
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?

Hi.

I'd like to divert myself away from certain other threads/arguments without
more killfile entries, so let me see if I can find some good feedback on the
subject indirectly, and do a little brain storming.

Ok, we all know that eBay is currently the king of the online auction. I'm
about done reading a book called "Boom!" in which they talk about how kings
(companies) can and do fall off of the thrown. Sometimes it takes a long
time and changes in environment, but it can happen. I'm on a tangent
already. I'm not looking to suggest competition with eBay ... that would be
silly. But what alternatives might be out there?

My primary collecting interests are coins, although this isn't always
apparent on eBay. I dabble in other things - stamps and covers in
particular. In the world of stamps, they have a couple of interesting "for
sale" web pages. I've only really found value in 1, although I haven't
given the others a fair shake yet ... buying singles isn't my emphasis at
the moment. This one web site allows sellers to list items for free, and
charges a very low fee if/when they sell something. Now, from what I
understand, sales aren't massive; my $20-50 orders often get a "thanks for
the large order!" note. I'm doing it again.

QUESTIONS:

Can anyone provide a reference to a coin trading/selling/buying web site
that they find worthwhile and valuable? Does anyone buy from a particular
site often? Or perhaps a dealer who has a particularly useful site?

Are there any central repositories of "coin links" that are worthwhile?
Perhaps a page that categorizes sites my type (trade, for sale, reference,
dealer, etc.,.)???

ARE there any coin auction pages that an average collector can list on other
than eBay? Fixed price or offers? Any that seem to have potential?


Ok, so not as many questions as I had first thought. But lets see what
responses I get, if any. I mean, I have a web server 10 feet from me. It's
not very high-powered, and it's now on a cable connection (means my uploads,
or outsider's web hits)are slower than when I had DSL). But it's a more
dependable connection, overall. I'm going to make a list of my world-wide
proof sets I have for sale and post it. I'll then post links in various
places and try to get interested parties to look. So, is there a central
place on which to try and get mentioned? Could/should there be?

Craig's List is an interesting model. Well, as much as I know about it.
I'm going to try and see how that ticks. But I wouldn't list coins on
Craig's List. There's much to be said for non-local buyers and anonymity.

What if there was a google-like thing specifically for coin sites where
dealers and collectors could list their wares? Perhaps labeled somehow as
collector/dealer or something in between? Hard to do, I suppose. Perhaps
it could list a reasonably limited number of things/items/notes and allow
references to individual web sites. I would suggest a simple list of
external links with a short blurb about the site, but what about the guy who
doesn't have a web page OR has space at his ISP but doesn't know how to set
it up? You don't have to be a webmaster or HTML-whiz to get a
decent-looking ad on eBay.

Cost. Ideally "free" would be nice, eh? Free could be done for awhile.
Remember "always free"??? If a site got particularly popular, you'd start
having some issues. Bandwidth could become an issue, if you were lucky ...
a million hits a day would be too much for a simple cable connection .
How much support would it demand? Hmmmmm. Well, I'll think
small-medium potatoes for now and worry about popularity when/if it
happens, remembering of course this is all hypothetical. Thinking out loud.

Would the average collector be interested in listing their items at a fixed
price? Can they do this somewhere NOW (other than eBay)? Or perhaps take
offers, realizing that with no final "auction is over" deadline, offers may
not be prompt or competitive? Still, if you've got the goods and someone
wants them ... maybe there is a connection to be made. Personally, I've
owned most of my for-sale proof sets for many years. If I could have list
them all once and sold a few a year, I'd me in much better shape now.

Add your favorite reference sites? Folks looking for a good reference site
and finding this list at the same time MIGHT just come across a forsale, or
WANTED listing. Wanted listings! There's something I could personally use.
What it it was primarily a WANT LIST site?

Link to pictures of your own coins / collection?

A feedback system of some sort? Ick. Liability issues. There may not be a
"simple" answer that works here anyway, noting eBay's constant changes. Is
this type of "venue" a liability even in its simplest form? A simple web
page where you let users register, then list there web page? Minor
moderation would be required to keep the porn-peddlers away. Perhaps some
type of "recommended" counter where other members can validate a particular
lister?

Coins only? Related items? If you expanded to "miscellaneous", you'd lose
any target audience, which would be bad. I would suggest a limited scope.

Ok. Enough. This is the kind of thing I do at work, only it's usually a
live group discussion with instant feedback creating mutations and different
ideas. Thanks in advance for any replies (crossing my fingers) ... even the
ones I won't see

Nick
Ads
  #2  
Old February 1st 08, 04:12 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?


"Nick Knight" wrote in message
...
Hi.

I'd like to divert myself away from certain other threads/arguments
without
more killfile entries, so let me see if I can find some good feedback on
the
subject indirectly, and do a little brain storming.

Ok, we all know that eBay is currently the king of the online auction.
I'm
about done reading a book called "Boom!" in which they talk about how
kings
(companies) can and do fall off of the thrown. Sometimes it takes a long
time and changes in environment, but it can happen. I'm on a tangent
already. I'm not looking to suggest competition with eBay ... that would
be
silly. But what alternatives might be out there?

My primary collecting interests are coins, although this isn't always
apparent on eBay. I dabble in other things - stamps and covers in
particular. In the world of stamps, they have a couple of interesting
"for
sale" web pages. I've only really found value in 1, although I haven't
given the others a fair shake yet ... buying singles isn't my emphasis at
the moment. This one web site allows sellers to list items for free, and
charges a very low fee if/when they sell something. Now, from what I
understand, sales aren't massive; my $20-50 orders often get a "thanks for
the large order!" note. I'm doing it again.

QUESTIONS:

Can anyone provide a reference to a coin trading/selling/buying web site
that they find worthwhile and valuable? Does anyone buy from a particular
site often? Or perhaps a dealer who has a particularly useful site?

Are there any central repositories of "coin links" that are worthwhile?
Perhaps a page that categorizes sites my type (trade, for sale, reference,
dealer, etc.,.)???

ARE there any coin auction pages that an average collector can list on
other
than eBay? Fixed price or offers? Any that seem to have potential?


Ok, so not as many questions as I had first thought. But lets see what
responses I get, if any. I mean, I have a web server 10 feet from me.
It's
not very high-powered, and it's now on a cable connection (means my
uploads,
or outsider's web hits)are slower than when I had DSL). But it's a more
dependable connection, overall. I'm going to make a list of my
world-wide
proof sets I have for sale and post it. I'll then post links in various
places and try to get interested parties to look. So, is there a central
place on which to try and get mentioned? Could/should there be?

Craig's List is an interesting model. Well, as much as I know about it.
I'm going to try and see how that ticks. But I wouldn't list coins on
Craig's List. There's much to be said for non-local buyers and anonymity.


I find Craig's List to be great for selling items too large of bulky to
ship. I would agree that selling coins there, except maybe as a one-time
deal, would not be wise. No charges at all, you can include photos, and you
usually ask for cash. If it doesn't sell, try it again. You're likely to
get a whole different group of searchers.

I put up a nice antique oak clawfoot table and four chairs. I got emails
asking if I would just sell the table or just sell the chairs. I answered
no, and the stuff didn't sell. So a couple weeks later, I put up two
entries-- one for the table, one for the four chairs. Within two days I had
both sold and in each case the people who came to pick up their item said
they wished they had known a table/chairs had been available. So you do
seem to get new people looking every week.



  #3  
Old February 1st 08, 09:48 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ken Barr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 476
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?

In article , "Nick Knight"
wrote:

Hi.

I'd like to divert myself away from certain other threads/arguments without
more killfile entries, so let me see if I can find some good feedback on
the subject indirectly, and do a little brain storming.

Ok, we all know that eBay is currently the king of the online auction. I'm
about done reading a book called "Boom!" in which they talk about how kings
(companies) can and do fall off of the thrown. Sometimes it takes a long
time and changes in environment, but it can happen. I'm on a tangent
already. I'm not looking to suggest competition with eBay ... that would
be silly. But what alternatives might be out there?

[snip]

I'm on a continual search to find cost-effective and time-efficient
alternative selling venues. Unfortunately, other than eBay and my
website, there ain't much out there.

Amazon Auctions worked for a while, but deteriorated when they
added zShops, and I eventually stopped listing there.

Yahoo!Auctions was halfway sorta decent for a while, but then
they went "free" and got deluged with grossly overprice crap
basically "parked" on their site ... and with continuous "free"
relists, it simply never went away. Yahoo eventually collapsed
under its own weight (sellthrough rate approached zero) and
they discontinued their auction site.

Bidville and ePier, both "free" sites, have suffered from
Yahooitis from Day One, simply being Lists Of Overpriced Crap,
with continuous relists to the point that they are not even worth
browsing to find the one truffle in the sea of mud ...

Other "meteoric" websites have come and gone, some spectacularly
so like Wagglepop which was "shuttered" before it even launched,
then "relaunced" later under somewhat mysterious circumstances.

Overstock, eCrater, Bluejay, somewhosenamesIveforgotten ...
it's a VAST WASTELAND out there ...

--
Ken Barr Numismatics
P. O. Box 32541 website:
http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 (souvenir cards, MPC, Hickey Bros tokens)
408-272-3247 Next show: San Jose CC Feb 1 - 3 (w/Mac's Coins)
  #4  
Old February 1st 08, 02:31 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Michael Benveniste
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 146
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?

"Nick Knight" wrote:

QUESTIONS:

Can anyone provide a reference to a coin trading/selling/buying web site
that they find worthwhile and valuable? Does anyone buy from a
particular
site often? Or perhaps a dealer who has a particularly useful site?


I'm not buying a lot at current prices, and will probably be looking
at selling some of stuff in March or so.

That being said, I've purchased around 10 coins from Northeast
Numismatics,
http://www.northeastcoin.com/, I've been delighted with every one.

Ok, so not as many questions as I had first thought. But lets see what
responses I get, if any. I mean, I have a web server 10 feet from me.
It's
not very high-powered, and it's now on a cable connection (means my
uploads,
or outsider's web hits)are slower than when I had DSL). But it's a more
dependable connection, overall. I'm going to make a list of my
world-wide
proof sets I have for sale and post it. I'll then post links in various
places and try to get interested parties to look. So, is there a
central
place on which to try and get mentioned? Could/should there be?


Check your agreement to see if your service allows you to run a
commercial webserver from your home. Many do not. Also, as a
simple matter of security policy, I do not visit websites
identified only by an IP address, so consider establishing a
domain name and using a dynamic DNS provider.

There are undoubtedly better forums where you can research and
discuss the pros and cons of running a web server at home versus
using a hosting service. 'nuff said.

What if there was a google-like thing specifically for coin sites where
dealers and collectors could list their wares? Perhaps labeled somehow
as
collector/dealer or something in between? Hard to do, I suppose.


More time consuming than techinically challenging. It's easier if you
can associate the Buy/Sell "classifieds" with a general discussion forum,
but then you end up taking on both eBay and PCGS. But it can be done.
I've both bought and sold photography gear on such a site, even though
eBay dominates that marketplace as much as coins.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

  #5  
Old February 1st 08, 03:13 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
scottishmoney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 240
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?




"Michael Benveniste"
I'm not buying a lot at current prices, and will probably be looking
at selling some of stuff in March or so.

That being said, I've purchased around 10 coins from Northeast
Numismatics,
http://www.northeastcoin.com/, I've been delighted with every one.

I look at their site often, and have purchased from them, they ship quickly,
and are friendly to deal with. They have lots and lots of high end US and
foreign coins.

--
My Website on Numismatics - Scottish in Particular:

http://www.geocities.com/scottishmoney


  #6  
Old February 2nd 08, 12:34 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Nick Knight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 496
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?

In , on 02/01/2008
at 12:48 AM, Ken Barr said:

Yahoo!Auctions was halfway sorta decent for a while, but then
they went "free" and got deluged with grossly overprice crap
basically "parked" on their site ... and with continuous "free"


Ah ha. Now THIS is good stuff. I'll have to revise my idea that "free is
ideal". I should have realized this issue with "free" myself, but thanks
for the thoughts. I remember than my EX would always want to take the kids
to functions that were advertised as "free". And 15 billion other kids
w/parents would end up being there. I finally demanded that we go on days
you have to pay, as I'd rather not have to pay by fighting the crowds.

I can see that unlimitted free listings would be Bad. Excellent. I'll
think a bit more. I'll look over your other comments as the evening
progresses, too. Thanks for the reply.

Nick
  #7  
Old February 2nd 08, 01:54 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bill Krummel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 295
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?


"Michael Benveniste" wrote in message
...
"Nick Knight" wrote:

QUESTIONS:

Can anyone provide a reference to a coin trading/selling/buying web site
that they find worthwhile and valuable? Does anyone buy from a
particular
site often? Or perhaps a dealer who has a particularly useful site?


I'm not buying a lot at current prices, and will probably be looking
at selling some of stuff in March or so.

That being said, I've purchased around 10 coins from Northeast
Numismatics,
http://www.northeastcoin.com/, I've been delighted with every one.


I've have had good results with purchases from Northeast Numismatics. Also,
I have recently started browsing, bidding and winning at DLRC (David
Lawrence Rare Coins) and have had pleasant results. Two auctions a week.
The coins generally have a reserve that is shown in the last 24 hours of the
auction. The classic commems that I have won have had reserves that were
under Greysheet bid or between GS bid and ask, even after adding buyers fee
and shipping. Some auctions have Buy It Now, some are listed in retail
format with just a sale price, some show a suggested price and ask for an
offer. The coins I have looked at have all been certified coins, but I
would recommend close study of the large images and being selective.

As far as selling coins, I have no alternative suggestions. I sell either
on eBay or at the local coin club auctions and have not tried any other
venues. The local monthly club auction used to mean giving away your coins
but in recent years, with much larger attendance, the results are a little
better. The club charges 5% commission up to a $3 maximum fee per line. I
think no matter where you sell you will have to pay some overhead, sooner or
later. As someone who does not make a living selling coins, I think eBay is
still the best way to unload unwanted parts of my accumulations. I don't
like giving them their cut but that's just my greed. The larger eBay is and
the less competition they have, the better with regard to quantity of
potential buyers, however they will certainly always be trying to maximize
their profits. That partly means they will charge fees as high as will be
tolerated by those who list. They may already have higher fees in mind but
are planning to spread the fees out over several increases rather than
shocking with one larger increase.

Years ago, I used to create my own menu prices, following percentage
guidelines as well as personally visiting the competition. My prices were
never set with any consideration for profitability, but mostly weighted for
competiveness. No longer. Now I still set my own retail prices but there
is a lot of science and studies that show me ranges of prices with comments
about customer resistance, indifference, etc., etc. Menu pricing is more
heavily weighted toward maximizing profits, which happens to be what I want
to do as a business owner. EBay is likely the same, with studies and tests
determining what they can charge and still keep the sellers in their camp,
happy or not. If studies showed four years ago that they could increase
fees/revenues by 50%, those same studies would recommend that a 50% increase
be spread out over time as several smaller increases.

Bill


  #8  
Old February 2nd 08, 06:52 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ken Barr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 476
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?

In article , "Nick Knight"
wrote:

In , on 02/01/2008
at 12:48 AM, Ken Barr said:

Yahoo!Auctions was halfway sorta decent for a while, but then
they went "free" and got deluged with grossly overprice crap
basically "parked" on their site ... and with continuous "free"


Ah ha. Now THIS is good stuff. I'll have to revise my idea that "free is
ideal". I should have realized this issue with "free" myself, but thanks
for the thoughts. I remember than my EX would always want to take the kids
to functions that were advertised as "free". And 15 billion other kids
w/parents would end up being there. I finally demanded that we go on days
you have to pay, as I'd rather not have to pay by fighting the crowds.

I can see that unlimitted free listings would be Bad. Excellent. I'll
think a bit more. I'll look over your other comments as the evening
progresses, too. Thanks for the reply.


If you want to see the "poster child" for the absolute
worthlessness of free listing sites, check out

http://lowcostcoingradingservice.ecrater.com/

Current number of items - 10,027
Items sold last month - 6

6,327 of the listings are for coins:
http://lowcostcoingradingservice.ecr....php?cid=57837

The hunnert-en-fiddy items *I* have listed in the Coins category
are TOTALLY lost in the weeds, get between zero and three hits
every month, and NOTHING has sold since last November ... (I'd
delete them off the site, but that would take some effort, so it's
quite a bit easier to just let them sit there and stagnate ...).

--
Ken Barr Numismatics
P. O. Box 32541 website:
http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 (souvenir cards, MPC, Hickey Bros tokens)
408-272-3247 Next show: San Jose CC Feb 1 - 3 (w/Mac's Coins)
  #9  
Old February 2nd 08, 04:54 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Nick Knight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 496
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites & Alternative Ideas?

In , on 02/01/2008
at 09:52 PM, Ken Barr said:

I can see that unlimitted free listings would be Bad. Excellent. I'll
think a bit more. I'll look over your other comments as the evening
progresses, too. Thanks for the reply.


If you want to see the "poster child" for the absolute
worthlessness of free listing sites, check out


Ok. So, a totally free listing site is not going to be worthwhile. It
makes sense. I still want to look at the Stamps2Go.com pages and see how
they charge sellers. I find it a great resource although, again, I don't
believe they do tons of volume. I try to help periodically!

But you also mentioned having your web site listed around, yes? How do you
think most people find your site? And are there listings of coin links that
are known to be great references?? Or are you easy to find via google?

What if there was a WANT LIST site for collectors. Assume it's at least
mildly popular and utilized, and had listings for coins and related
categories? It might suffer from a "too hard to check for too little
return" syndrome, at first ... but what if you didn't have to manually
check? What if it emailed you when anything was listed in category X,
perhaps with keywords Y and Z? And/or had an RSS feed available? Or maybe
you logged in and it had a "my possibilities" page that knew your searches
and did them dynamically.

I've posted WANTED ads in classic car forums and on sites before. A few
years ago I was on a kick and wanted 1 of a couple of different types of
50's or 60's makes. I'm still in the market, kind of, although I'm not
putting any energy into it. Still, I get an email every so often about one
of my ads, which apparently still exist. A couple of months ago a women
wrote me about the 56 Buick Special Convertible she had inheritted out in
CA. I had her send me pictures. It was complete, but a total basket case.
Exactly what I want (and can afford) - a huge project. She was just teasing
me, though. She wanted to know what it was worth, but then told be she was
going to keep it for awhle. Damn. The point is, I hadn't put any energy
into this long-shot search and still got a hit, albeit a bit wasteful. I'm
going to ping her today ... hmmm. With a more mainstream list of WANTS and
a little more energy, I'm sure this system would net results.

Still toying with ideas. At first, I believe I might try a coin link page
if I can't find any that are already well established. Or even if there is
one ... it can be at the top of MY list. Low energy, low cost ... no real
down side.

Nick
  #10  
Old February 2nd 08, 07:14 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Peter[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Survey: The Good, The Bad about eBay - Worthwhile Coin Websites &Alternative Ideas?

On Feb 2, 4:54*pm, "Nick Knight" wrote:
In , on 02/01/2008
* *at 09:52 PM, Ken Barr said:

I can see that unlimitted free listings would be Bad. *Excellent. *I'll
think a bit more. *I'll look over your other comments as the evening
progresses, too. *Thanks for the reply.

If you want to see the "poster child" for the absolute
worthlessness of free listing sites, check out


Ok. *So, a totally free listing site is not going to be worthwhile. *It
makes sense. *I still want to look at the Stamps2Go.com pages and see how
they charge sellers. *I find it a great resource although, again, I don't
believe they do tons of volume. *I try to help periodically!

But you also mentioned having your web site listed around, yes? *How do you
think most people find your site? *And are there listings of coin links that
are known to be great references?? *Or are you easy to find via google?

What if there was a WANT LIST site for collectors. *Assume it's at least
mildly popular and utilized, and had listings for coins and related
categories? *It might suffer from a "too hard to check for too little
return" syndrome, at first ... but what if you didn't have to manually
check? *What if it emailed you when anything was listed in category X,
perhaps with keywords Y and Z? *And/or had an RSS feed available? *Or maybe
you logged in and it had a "my possibilities" page that knew your searches
and did them dynamically.

I've posted WANTED ads in classic car forums and on sites before. *A few
years ago I was on a kick and wanted 1 of a couple of different types of
50's or 60's makes. *I'm still in the market, kind of, although I'm not
putting any energy into it. *Still, I get an email every so often about one
of my ads, which apparently still exist. *A couple of months ago a women
wrote me about the 56 Buick Special Convertible she had inheritted out in
CA. *I had her send me pictures. *It was complete, but a total basket case.
Exactly what I want (and can afford) - a huge project. *She was just teasing
me, though. *She wanted to know what it was worth, but then told be she was
going to keep it for awhle. *Damn. *The point is, I hadn't put any energy
into this long-shot search and still got a hit, albeit a bit wasteful. *I'm
going to ping her today ... hmmm. *With a more mainstream list of *WANTS and
a little more energy, I'm sure this system would net results.

Still toying with ideas. *At first, I believe I might try a coin link page
if I can't find any that are already well established. *Or even if there is
one ... it can be at the top of MY list. *Low energy, low cost ... no real
down side.

Nick



A 'wanted' site might work, but it seems to me there are pitalls;
you've noted one that occurs to me. You want something, but there is
a large mismatch between what the seller and buyer want.

eBay exposes people who need to sell and are not especially afraid
that the price will be discovered. Saying that I want a Studebaker
Golden Hawk may not be enough to expose a willing seller. Saying that
I will pay up to $2000 for one in good condition is better, but to
really deal with the condition, might mean defining the condition in a
more widely understood sense. The coin world has done this pretty
well.

Even so, there is a difficulty making expectations converge enough for
a sale. I am eager to buy 1986 French 100 FF piedforts at a total
cost of $8 or less. I am eager to buy all the Morgan silver dollars
(XF or better) I can at $10. I get very few chances to do so.

It probably would seem to you that my offers on such a site barely
rose to the level of spam ...
 




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