Dip or no dip?

It's time to play that wonderful game of dip or no dip. Let's meet
today's contestant, an AU 1851-O trime:

http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-obv.jpg
http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-rev.jpg

So what says the jury? Should this coin keey it's authentic
"patina" accrued over the last 150+ years, or is it time for a
refreshing and revitalizing bath?

--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything.Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain

Michael Benveniste wrote:
It's time to play that wonderful game of dip or no dip. Let's meet
today's contestant, an AU 1851-O trime:

http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-obv.jpg
http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-rev.jpg

So what says the jury? Should this coin keey it's authentic
"patina" accrued over the last 150+ years, or is it time for a
refreshing and revitalizing bath?

It's hard to tell from a two-dimensional picture, but that blackest stuff
certainly looks like corrosion product to me. I doubt that dipping without
scrubbing will take it away, and you're likely to be left with pocked
surfaces, not such a pretty sight, either. If you value the coin at all,
I'd take it to an experienced "coin doctor" and get an opinion coin-in-hand.

James the Double Dipper

Mr. Jaggers wrote:
Michael Benveniste wrote:
It's time to play that wonderful game of dip or no dip. Let's meet
today's contestant, an AU 1851-O trime:

http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-obv.jpg
http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-rev.jpg

So what says the jury? Should this coin keey it's authentic
"patina" accrued over the last 150+ years, or is it time for a
refreshing and revitalizing bath?

It's hard to tell from a two-dimensional picture, but that blackest
stuff certainly looks like corrosion product to me. I doubt that
dipping without scrubbing will take it away, and you're likely to be
left with pocked surfaces, not such a pretty sight, either. If you
value the coin at all, I'd take it to an experienced "coin doctor"
and get an opinion coin-in-hand.
James the Double Dipper

I agree. It's worth a quick dip, but before you try anything abrasive get
an experienced opinion.

On Jul 18, 7:17*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Michael Benveniste wrote:
It's time to play that wonderful game of dip or no dip. *Let's meet
today's contestant, an AU 1851-O trime:

http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-obv.jpg
http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-rev.jpg

So what says the jury? *Should this coin keey it's authentic
"patina" accrued over the last 150+ years, or is it time for a
refreshing and revitalizing bath?

It's hard to tell from a two-dimensional picture, but that blackest stuff
certainly looks like corrosion product to me. *I doubt that dipping without
scrubbing will take it away, and you're likely to be left with pocked
surfaces, not such a pretty sight, either. *If you value the coin at all,
I'd take it to an experienced "coin doctor" and get an opinion coin-in-hand.

James the Double Dipper

Can I mention an "old family recipe" without mentioning the old family
that mentioned it to me?
1. bring (ca. 1 pint of water) to a rolling boil
2. add clear dishwashing detergent (ca. 1 Oz)
3. add a small amount of household Ammonia
4. cook the coin for a few minutes
5. rinse and inspect in cool water
6. rinse with distilled water
7. dry by resting coin on an absorpant towel for a few minutes (turn
once)
8. air dry coin

As long as the coin is silver, it should leave the metal undamaged. I
found a lot of circulated coins accumulate greasy dirt that can look
like corrosion and hot soapy water often does a fine job. If it is
corrosion, then seek better help.

Michael Benveniste wrote:
It's time to play that wonderful game of dip or no dip. Let's meet
today's contestant, an AU 1851-O trime:

http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-obv.jpg
http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-rev.jpg

So what says the jury? Should this coin keey it's authentic
"patina" accrued over the last 150+ years, or is it time for a
refreshing and revitalizing bath?



Dip IT......

--
Support Communization

SHOP

Walmart

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:30 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

It's hard to tell from a two-dimensional picture, but that blackest stuff
certainly looks like corrosion product to me. I doubt that dipping without
scrubbing will take it away, and you're likely to be left with pocked
surfaces, not such a pretty sight, either. If you value the coin at all,
I'd take it to an experienced "coin doctor" and get an opinion coin-in-hand.

Thanks, but if it's corrosion, NGC and I will have a few words about
their standards for AU-55. I'm thinking of sending it in to NCS along
with a problem coin or two.

--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Don't succumb to the false authority of a tool or model. There
is no substitute for thinking.

Michael Benveniste wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:30 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

It's hard to tell from a two-dimensional picture, but that blackest
stuff certainly looks like corrosion product to me. I doubt that
dipping without scrubbing will take it away, and you're likely to be
left with pocked surfaces, not such a pretty sight, either. If you
value the coin at all, I'd take it to an experienced "coin doctor"
and get an opinion coin-in-hand.

Thanks, but if it's corrosion, NGC and I will have a few words about
their standards for AU-55. I'm thinking of sending it in to NCS along
with a problem coin or two.

It is arguable that any degree of toning could be classified as corrosion,
but we normally reserve that nasty word for corrosion products that form a
crust that protrudes above the surrounding virgin surfaces.

Did the coin look that way when you got it? I have heard tales of coins
that had been cleaned, improperly rinsed, and then slabbed, forming an
incubator for growths such as you see on your coin.

James

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:15:28 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

It is arguable that any degree of toning could be classified as corrosion,
but we normally reserve that nasty word for corrosion products that form a
crust that protrudes above the surrounding virgin surfaces.

Agreed. With a 10x loupe, it doesn't look crusty, but of course I'm
looking through a slab.

Did the coin look that way when you got it? I have heard tales of coins
that had been cleaned, improperly rinsed, and then slabbed, forming an
incubator for growths such as you see on your coin.

I haven't owned for more than a couple of months, but there's been no
change since I got it.

--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything.Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain

Peter wrote:

On Jul 18, 7:17*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Michael Benveniste wrote:
It's time to play that wonderful game of dip or no dip. *Let's meet
today's contestant, an AU 1851-O trime:

http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-obv.jpg
http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-rev.jpg

So what says the jury? *Should this coin keey it's authentic
"patina" accrued over the last 150+ years, or is it time for a
refreshing and revitalizing bath?

It's hard to tell from a two-dimensional picture, but that blackest stuff
certainly looks like corrosion product to me. *I doubt that dipping without
scrubbing will take it away, and you're likely to be left with pocked
surfaces, not such a pretty sight, either. *If you value the coin at all,
I'd take it to an experienced "coin doctor" and get an opinion coin-in-hand.

James the Double Dipper

Can I mention an "old family recipe" without mentioning the old family
that mentioned it to me?
1. bring (ca. 1 pint of water) to a rolling boil
2. add clear dishwashing detergent (ca. 1 Oz)
3. add a small amount of household Ammonia
4. cook the coin for a few minutes
5. rinse and inspect in cool water
6. rinse with distilled water
7. dry by resting coin on an absorpant towel for a few minutes (turn
once)
8. air dry coin

As long as the coin is silver, it should leave the metal undamaged. I
found a lot of circulated coins accumulate greasy dirt that can look
like corrosion and hot soapy water often does a fine job. If it is
corrosion, then seek better help.


I'm just returning to coin collecting a have a couple of questions.

I have read that grading services reject cleaned coins. I that true or
rumor.

I have some older pennies that have some surface crud, would the above
recipe constitute cleaning, as I see no caustic materials in it.

Don

dlhii wrote:
Peter wrote:

On Jul 18, 7:17 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
Michael Benveniste wrote:
It's time to play that wonderful game of dip or no dip. Let's meet
today's contestant, an AU 1851-O trime:

http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-obv.jpg
http://wemightneedthat.biz/trime-rev.jpg

So what says the jury? Should this coin keey it's authentic
"patina" accrued over the last 150+ years, or is it time for a
refreshing and revitalizing bath?

It's hard to tell from a two-dimensional picture, but that blackest
stuff certainly looks like corrosion product to me. I doubt that
dipping without scrubbing will take it away, and you're likely to
be left with pocked surfaces, not such a pretty sight, either. If
you value the coin at all, I'd take it to an experienced "coin
doctor" and get an opinion coin-in-hand.

James the Double Dipper

Can I mention an "old family recipe" without mentioning the old
family that mentioned it to me?
1. bring (ca. 1 pint of water) to a rolling boil
2. add clear dishwashing detergent (ca. 1 Oz)
3. add a small amount of household Ammonia
4. cook the coin for a few minutes
5. rinse and inspect in cool water
6. rinse with distilled water
7. dry by resting coin on an absorpant towel for a few minutes (turn
once)
8. air dry coin

As long as the coin is silver, it should leave the metal undamaged.
I found a lot of circulated coins accumulate greasy dirt that can
look like corrosion and hot soapy water often does a fine job. If
it is corrosion, then seek better help.


I'm just returning to coin collecting a have a couple of questions.

I have read that grading services reject cleaned coins. I that true or
rumor.

I have some older pennies that have some surface crud, would the above
recipe constitute cleaning, as I see no caustic materials in it.

Don, welcome back to collecting. It's never been better!

Quite frankly, grading services will *advertise* that they will not slab
cleaned coins (they rejected one of mine the first time I submitted it, but
slabbed it when I submitted the exact same coin the second time), but then
you'll go to coin shows and see cleaned coin after cleaned coin, even in the
so-called "respectable" slabs. Some people will tell you that it has to do
with the rarity of the coins, but that's only partially true. I recently
submitted a coin with a survivorship of fewer than a hundred examples that,
yes, looked like it may have been cleaned 100 years ago, but it came back
ungraded in a "genuine" holder from PCGS. The latest chic in the industry
is to use the expression "second skin" to refer to coins that have retoned
after a cleaning. It's entirely subjective, arbitrary, and capricious, from
where I sit.

As far as your coins are concerned, it depends on what that surface crud is.
If it consists of deposits of "copper wax" (skin oils, dirt, other things
we'd best not name) around the lettering, this stuff can be removed
mechanically with the sharp end of a green rose thorn without damaging the
coin in any way. If it's corrosion, then all bets are off. Peter's formula
is essentially a solvent-based approach to the problem, and as he says,
works best with silver coins.

James