FA: 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter AU or better

Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

On Aug 7, 5:13*pm, wrote:
Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

Dan,

There are some pretty sharp numismatists on this group, and in your
description, you describe the Standing Liberty Quarter as AU to Unc.
That coin is no better than Fine-15, but if you were really lucky, a
grading company might grade it as VF-20. However, the coin looks
cleaned from the photos. That would preclude it from being graded at
all, but in that condition, it would be cost prohibitive to go to the
expense to find out. To call it AU-55 in your post is to insult most
of us here who know better. Frankly, YOU should know better. Get the
ANA grading guide if you don't know how to grade. Otherwise, you might
try salting the foot that's in your mouth. Might taste better.

Ira

Ira wrote:
On Aug 7, 5:13 pm, wrote:
Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

Dan,

Get the
ANA grading guide if you don't know how to grade.

Ira, from what I've been seeing, there are some "name" slabbing companies
and no mean number of "name" dealers who desperately need to cleave to that
advice. In all fairness to Dan, he may have recently spent a day at a coin
show and was just imitating life as he saw it.

James

On Aug 9, 7:52*am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Ira wrote:
On Aug 7, 5:13 pm, wrote:
Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

Dan,

Get the
ANA grading guide if you don't know how to grade.

Ira, from what I've been seeing, there are some "name" slabbing companies
and no mean number of "name" dealers who desperately need to cleave to that
advice. *In all fairness to Dan, he may have recently spent a day at a coin
show and was just imitating life as he saw it.

James

Jim,

You are oh too kind. The "N" and the "P" grading companies would
probably grade that coin VF20 and F15 respectively IF they decided it
had not been cleaned. I think the "I" grading service would concur
with one of the two aforementioned grading companies. I have no idea
what the "A" grading company would decide to bestow on that coin. But
the massive over reaching in grade that Mr Wheeler has postulated
deserves a stern verbal punishment. The latest ANA grading guide
reflects the loosening of some of the grading standards on some
series, but the grade that Wheeler has put into his description should
embarrass him. That's assuming he is capable of embarrassment.

Ira (not as kind as James the Benevolent)

Ira wrote:
On Aug 9, 7:52 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Ira wrote:
On Aug 7, 5:13 pm, wrote:
Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

Dan,

Get the
ANA grading guide if you don't know how to grade.

Ira, from what I've been seeing, there are some "name" slabbing
companies and no mean number of "name" dealers who desperately need
to cleave to that advice. In all fairness to Dan, he may have
recently spent a day at a coin show and was just imitating life as
he saw it.

James

Jim,

You are oh too kind. The "N" and the "P" grading companies would
probably grade that coin VF20 and F15 respectively IF they decided it
had not been cleaned. I think the "I" grading service would concur
with one of the two aforementioned grading companies. I have no idea
what the "A" grading company would decide to bestow on that coin. But
the massive over reaching in grade that Mr Wheeler has postulated
deserves a stern verbal punishment. The latest ANA grading guide
reflects the loosening of some of the grading standards on some
series, but the grade that Wheeler has put into his description should
embarrass him. That's assuming he is capable of embarrassment.

Ira (not as kind as James the Benevolent)

The 6th edition of the ANA Grading book brazenly states on page 14 that
"this book *reports* the grading being used in the market place. It does
not *create* it."

Dan is part of the market place. While you and I may classify his grading
opinion as extreme, the general trend of the market place is in his
direction, not yours or mine. Ergo, Dan's grading may one day prevail and
be *reported* in an edition of the ANA Grading "Standards" that will be
published sometime after the Brown & Dunn generation has joined the Great
Majority.

If I had known you 50 years ago and told you that someday an Indian cent
with *no* letters of LIBERTY clear and readable would end up in the VF20
holder of a "respectable" grading company, would you have believed me?

James the Malevolent

On Aug 9, 7:45*am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Ira wrote:
On Aug 9, 7:52 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Ira wrote:
On Aug 7, 5:13 pm, wrote:
Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

Dan,

Get the
ANA grading guide if you don't know how to grade.

Ira, from what I've been seeing, there are some "name" slabbing
companies and no mean number of "name" dealers who desperately need
to cleave to that advice. In all fairness to Dan, he may have
recently spent a day at a coin show and was just imitating life as
he saw it.

James

Jim,

You are oh too kind. The "N" and the "P" grading companies would
probably grade that coin VF20 and F15 respectively IF they decided it
had not been cleaned. I think the "I" grading service would concur
with one of the two aforementioned grading companies. I have no idea
what the "A" grading company would decide to bestow on that coin. But
the massive over reaching in grade that Mr Wheeler has postulated
deserves a stern verbal punishment. The latest ANA grading guide
reflects the loosening of some of the grading standards on some
series, but the grade that Wheeler has put into his description should
embarrass him. That's assuming he is capable of embarrassment.

Ira *(not as kind as James the Benevolent)

The 6th edition of the ANA Grading book brazenly states on page 14 that
"this book *reports* the grading being used in the market place. *It does
not *create* it."

Dan is part of the market place. *While you and I may classify his grading
opinion as extreme, the general trend of the market place is in his
direction, not yours or mine. *Ergo, Dan's grading may one day prevail and
be *reported* in an edition of the ANA Grading "Standards" that will be
published sometime after the Brown & Dunn generation has joined the Great
Majority.

If I had known you 50 years ago and told you that someday an Indian cent
with *no* letters of LIBERTY clear and readable would end up in the VF20
holder of a "respectable" grading company, would you have believed me?

James the Malevolent- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just bought a copy of David Bowers' brand new "Grading Coins By
Photographs" (apparently he couldn't get the rights to the name
"Photograde" back).

I am amazed and appalled at the "grade inflation" on the low end of
the spectrum. What passes for "AG" and "G" nowadays is pretty bad
stuff.

I have the remnants of many coin accumulations that I have handled in
the past and that I thought were too bad to resell. Type-wise, they
would be great coins if only they weren't in such ****y condition.

Gee, maybe I need to rethink.

Yes Oz, the OP needed to be chastised (and I am glad you did it), but
James is on the right track too. VAST chutzpah seems to be pretty
important in these coin matters.

BTW, I got the book from Borders with a 40% off list-price coupon.
Only $12.00-ish plus tax. Poor old Borders, can't imagine they're
gonna last until Christmas.

oly

On Aug 9, 9:10*am, oly wrote:
On Aug 9, 7:45*am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:





Ira wrote:
On Aug 9, 7:52 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Ira wrote:
On Aug 7, 5:13 pm, wrote:
Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

Dan,

Get the
ANA grading guide if you don't know how to grade.

Ira, from what I've been seeing, there are some "name" slabbing
companies and no mean number of "name" dealers who desperately need
to cleave to that advice. In all fairness to Dan, he may have
recently spent a day at a coin show and was just imitating life as
he saw it.

James

Jim,

You are oh too kind. The "N" and the "P" grading companies would
probably grade that coin VF20 and F15 respectively IF they decided it
had not been cleaned. I think the "I" grading service would concur
with one of the two aforementioned grading companies. I have no idea
what the "A" grading company would decide to bestow on that coin. But
the massive over reaching in grade that Mr Wheeler has postulated
deserves a stern verbal punishment. The latest ANA grading guide
reflects the loosening of some of the grading standards on some
series, but the grade that Wheeler has put into his description should
embarrass him. That's assuming he is capable of embarrassment.

Ira *(not as kind as James the Benevolent)

The 6th edition of the ANA Grading book brazenly states on page 14 that
"this book *reports* the grading being used in the market place. *It does
not *create* it."

Dan is part of the market place. *While you and I may classify his grading
opinion as extreme, the general trend of the market place is in his
direction, not yours or mine. *Ergo, Dan's grading may one day prevail and
be *reported* in an edition of the ANA Grading "Standards" that will be
published sometime after the Brown & Dunn generation has joined the Great
Majority.

If I had known you 50 years ago and told you that someday an Indian cent
with *no* letters of LIBERTY clear and readable would end up in the VF20
holder of a "respectable" grading company, would you have believed me?

James the Malevolent- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just bought a copy of David Bowers' brand new "Grading Coins By
Photographs" (apparently he couldn't get the rights to the name
"Photograde" back).

I am amazed and appalled at the "grade inflation" on the low end of
the spectrum. *What passes for "AG" and "G" nowadays is pretty bad
stuff.

I have the remnants of many coin accumulations that I have handled in
the past and that I thought were too bad to resell. *Type-wise, they
would be great coins if only they weren't in such ****y condition.

Gee, maybe I need to rethink.

Yes Oz, the OP needed to be chastised (and I am glad you did it), but
James is on the right track too. *VAST chutzpah seems to be pretty
important in these coin matters.

BTW, I got the book from Borders with a 40% off list-price coupon.
Only $12.00-ish plus tax. *Poor old Borders, can't imagine they're
gonna last until Christmas.

oly

I agree with this assessment. Twenty-five plus years ago, a MS63
would have been decribed as a gem MS65 whatever. Today, the top
grading company might describe as MS63 at best over most series, so
high grade coins have gotten more conservative grades. But
gradeflation seems to have occured at grades AU50 and lower in most if
not all series. As a consequence, I rarely ever buy a recently graded
Au50 for resale as it looks like an Ef40 or Ef45 to me. Coins graded
VF20 mostly look like Fine12 to these old eyes and as you wrote,
Good-4 looks like a Fair-2 to
me. It will be sad day indeed when Wheeler's misdescribed "AU-55" is
ever described as such by any grading guide.

Ira not Oz

Oly, I have not insulted you in months. Please accord me the same
courtesy. I thank you.

On Aug 9, 8:35*am, Ira wrote:
On Aug 9, 9:10*am, oly wrote:





On Aug 9, 7:45*am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

Ira wrote:
On Aug 9, 7:52 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Ira wrote:
On Aug 7, 5:13 pm, wrote:
Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

Dan,

Get the
ANA grading guide if you don't know how to grade.

Ira, from what I've been seeing, there are some "name" slabbing
companies and no mean number of "name" dealers who desperately need
to cleave to that advice. In all fairness to Dan, he may have
recently spent a day at a coin show and was just imitating life as
he saw it.

James

Jim,

You are oh too kind. The "N" and the "P" grading companies would
probably grade that coin VF20 and F15 respectively IF they decided it
had not been cleaned. I think the "I" grading service would concur
with one of the two aforementioned grading companies. I have no idea
what the "A" grading company would decide to bestow on that coin. But
the massive over reaching in grade that Mr Wheeler has postulated
deserves a stern verbal punishment. The latest ANA grading guide
reflects the loosening of some of the grading standards on some
series, but the grade that Wheeler has put into his description should
embarrass him. That's assuming he is capable of embarrassment.

Ira *(not as kind as James the Benevolent)

The 6th edition of the ANA Grading book brazenly states on page 14 that
"this book *reports* the grading being used in the market place. *It does
not *create* it."

Dan is part of the market place. *While you and I may classify his grading
opinion as extreme, the general trend of the market place is in his
direction, not yours or mine. *Ergo, Dan's grading may one day prevail and
be *reported* in an edition of the ANA Grading "Standards" that will be
published sometime after the Brown & Dunn generation has joined the Great
Majority.

If I had known you 50 years ago and told you that someday an Indian cent
with *no* letters of LIBERTY clear and readable would end up in the VF20
holder of a "respectable" grading company, would you have believed me?

James the Malevolent- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just bought a copy of David Bowers' brand new "Grading Coins By
Photographs" (apparently he couldn't get the rights to the name
"Photograde" back).

I am amazed and appalled at the "grade inflation" on the low end of
the spectrum. *What passes for "AG" and "G" nowadays is pretty bad
stuff.

I have the remnants of many coin accumulations that I have handled in
the past and that I thought were too bad to resell. *Type-wise, they
would be great coins if only they weren't in such ****y condition.

Gee, maybe I need to rethink.

Yes Oz, the OP needed to be chastised (and I am glad you did it), but
James is on the right track too. *VAST chutzpah seems to be pretty
important in these coin matters.

BTW, I got the book from Borders with a 40% off list-price coupon.
Only $12.00-ish plus tax. *Poor old Borders, can't imagine they're
gonna last until Christmas.

oly

I agree with this assessment. Twenty-five *plus years ago, a MS63
would have been decribed as a gem MS65 whatever. Today, the top
grading company might describe as MS63 at best over most series, so
high grade coins have gotten more conservative grades. But
gradeflation seems to have occured at grades AU50 and lower in most if
not all series. As a consequence, I rarely ever buy a recently graded
Au50 for resale as it looks like an Ef40 or Ef45 to me. Coins graded
VF20 mostly look like Fine12 to these old eyes and as you wrote,
Good-4 looks like a Fair-2 to
me. It will be sad day indeed when Wheeler's misdescribed "AU-55" is
ever described as such by any grading guide.

Ira not Oz

Oly, I have not insulted you in months. Please accord me the same
courtesy. I thank you.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ira, I considered that a friendly (enough) term, but if you don't, I
won't use it. Sorry. Oly

On Aug 9, 8:45*am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Ira wrote:
On Aug 9, 7:52 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Ira wrote:
On Aug 7, 5:13 pm, wrote:
Currently with one bid, a 1917 Standing Liberty Quarter in what I
would call AU 55 or better condition. A steal at current price.

Daniel B. Wheeler

Dan,

Get the
ANA grading guide if you don't know how to grade.

Ira, from what I've been seeing, there are some "name" slabbing
companies and no mean number of "name" dealers who desperately need
to cleave to that advice. In all fairness to Dan, he may have
recently spent a day at a coin show and was just imitating life as
he saw it.

James

Jim,

You are oh too kind. The "N" and the "P" grading companies would
probably grade that coin VF20 and F15 respectively IF they decided it
had not been cleaned. I think the "I" grading service would concur
with one of the two aforementioned grading companies. I have no idea
what the "A" grading company would decide to bestow on that coin. But
the massive over reaching in grade that Mr Wheeler has postulated
deserves a stern verbal punishment. The latest ANA grading guide
reflects the loosening of some of the grading standards on some
series, but the grade that Wheeler has put into his description should
embarrass him. That's assuming he is capable of embarrassment.

Ira *(not as kind as James the Benevolent)

The 6th edition of the ANA Grading book brazenly states on page 14 that
"this book *reports* the grading being used in the market place. *It does
not *create* it."

Dan is part of the market place. *While you and I may classify his grading
opinion as extreme, the general trend of the market place is in his
direction, not yours or mine. *Ergo, Dan's grading may one day prevail and
be *reported* in an edition of the ANA Grading "Standards" that will be
published sometime after the Brown & Dunn generation has joined the Great
Majority.

If I had known you 50 years ago and told you that someday an Indian cent
with *no* letters of LIBERTY clear and readable would end up in the VF20
holder of a "respectable" grading company, would you have believed me?

James the Malevolent- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Markets are not always efficient, grade inflation and currency
inflation are factors. Even so, it appears that Yeoman lists a G-4
from 1917 as $22 in their 2006 edition (latest I have). The coin
seems to have sold for $16.05 plus $7.50 for shipping (total of
$23.55) rather than the $175 Yoeman gives for an AU-55.

Peter wrote:


I guess it isn't fully clear to me what is going on. Yeomans'
standards have not changed much since he published his first guide.
In inflating their grades I suspect that US collectors and third party
graders are treating themselves to a better view of their own
importance or at least the importance of US coins.

There are far more coins than coin collectors and more other coins
than US coins. At one time I thought that US coins were the best in
the world. The current issue appears to me to be junk. Will I ever
care whether a 2009 presidential dollar is MS-70 or merely fair? It
has virtually no intrinsic value and thus may only be of interest for
how much it will bring.

If respectable people allow their standards to shift, a change in the
market may shift them another way; it will not trouble me. When the
category of US coins (current as well as older) is seen as mostly junk
some other category may be more interesting to collectors.


I'm real new at this (returning after a long absence) but I have seen
'slugs' command high dollar ($350) at some auctions I have been too.
One had a Morgan that you couldn't read the date with out a magnifier,
even then questionable. I would of only considered it silver...

I do have a question, if the past few months my eyesight in one eye.
Has anyone tried one of those USB magnifiers? The low end ones.