The two Bobs and the fake Trade Dollar in fake PCGS slab on eBay:Ira's take on this matter

On Apr 22, 3:44*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
oly wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:02 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
oly wrote:
The basic functions of our national government should be to (1)
deliver the mail, (2) defend our coasts and borders, and (3) to
chase and punish thieves and murderers. Everything else that the
government does is dubious at best and always very very expensive
compared to the private sector.

Ye Gods, a Libertarian! I'll go you one further: the only one of
those three mentioned in the Preamble to the Constitution is "to
provide for the common defence [sic]," which is what I assume you
mean by (2) above. I say, let UPS and Fedex handle all the mail, and
let the state militias round up the brigands and dishonest
politicians. Wait, there are too many of the latter for any state
government to handle, so cross that one out. And if you think the
private sector has any desire to "secure the Blessings of Liberty"
to yourself or anyone else, you surely live in a dream world.

Note that our government does none of those three basic functions
well, nowadays.

Actually, I feel relatively safe from external attack, nukes and
terrorists notwithstanding. It's civil war and attack from within
that should be our real fears. We've already got one Governor
running secession up the flagpole, several other individuals calling
for the death of our President (both before and since he was
elected), and plenty of people, many of them right here in my town,
who are convinced that over half the U.S. population (all the
homosexuals, immigrants, and liberals, for example, and that
includes anyone who knows French) should be taken out and shot.
These days I only go outdoors between 1100 and 1400, because I know
those types are all huddled around their radios listening to
rightwing talkers during that time. Otherwise I'd get nothing done.

As for the mail, I'd have to say that, in spite of all the puking and
moaning I've done about USPS, it remains miraculous that they can
deliver an object all the way across the nation in three days or so
for 42 cents.

To bring this back around to something tangentially related to
coins, our government's finances are in a shambles and have
deteriorated very badly since last fall. Our government fiat
currency is on a knife's edge; get some gold and silver.

I continue to await your promised disquisition on this topic, now
more than a month overdue.

James

Oly is not so much a libertarian as a person who has much practical
personal experience of the absolute inability of government to solve
more problems than it creates.

Does government ever fix some festering boil once in a while??? *Sure..

Does that fix cost ten to one-hundred times as much as if the project
were hired out??? *Always.

Does that fix always come at the expense of missing twenty-five other
bigger problems while the government concentrated all its "resources"
on the one project in the spot-light??? *Absolutely.

Finally, one of the worst things that government creates is a
oberclass consisting of its own flunkies who think that they are a
whole lot better and more important than the taxpayers whose cash
payments support the government.

Please note that Oly is intellectually inconsistent in his politics
and that Oly is a hypocrite. *That is why Oly is a Republican. *The
other major party can never recognize their vast hypocrisy and their
own really very special bete noires.

An awful lot of absolutes and superlatives there, mon copain. *Let me add
some more.

You could have just as easily been describing the Human Condition in
general. *Assuming that Government will always be made up of Human Beans, we
should be thankful that our system is still the best ever. *Do we have room
for improvement? *Absolutely! *Given enough time, can we make those needed
improvements? *Absolutely! *Will we ever succeed in our efforts? *Never,
until politicians of both parties cease their relentless strutting and
preening, give up telling us how much they love Jesus and with their next
breath fork it to us one way or another, and learn that they are in office
to serve during their present term, not just to line up their votes for the
next. *Never, until self-appointed spokespersons for opposing political and
religious worldviews cease demonizing and dehumanizing the other side and
whipping their respective disciples into a froth over the smallest issues,
for extermination of the opposition en masse. *Never, until we are
content to drop the us vs. them mentality, complete with its always
pejorative caricatures, and actually listen to each other in a spirit of
co-operation. *Unfortunately, our history does not provide many, if any,
examples of any of those things being done.

James the Political Hypochondriac- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The American Experiment and the American Dream are about BOTH self-
government and freedom from government. We have more than crossed the
line. The line between good and bad.

There is a certain universal justice (or perhaps say, karma) and I
suspect that hyperinflation and all its bad effects will be a big part
of the price we Americans will all pay.

And, of course, there is an "us" versus "them". An individual may
choose to ignore the divide, and might get away with just (or only)
having their pockets picked. But of course there is an "us" versus
"them", and on more than one level in our country and in the world.

Got to run to one more useless meeting...

oly

"oly" wrote in message
...
The American Experiment and the American Dream are about BOTH
self-government and freedom from government. We have more than crossed
the line. The line between good and bad.

I would say freedom from repressive government.
I applaud Obama's sharp left turn into enlightened socialism.
We need more government and we need it now!
That being said, I must add that I also expect hyperinflation before the
end off Obama's second term.
I also agree that gold, silver, guns and ammunition are wise purchases
at this time.

http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...rovasek+school

On Apr 22, 4:36*pm, "Bob F." wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

...

The American Experiment and the American Dream are about BOTH
self-government and freedom from government. *We have more than crossed
the line. *The line between good and bad.

I would say freedom from repressive government.
I applaud Obama's sharp left turn into enlightened socialism.
We need more government and we need it now!
That being said, I must add that I also expect hyperinflation before the
end off Obama's second term.
I also agree that gold, silver, guns and ammunition are wise purchases
at this time.

http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...rovasek+school

If Obama continues the Clinton and Bush economic policies (and he has
no significant players in his economic team that weren't in one or
more of the last three administrations), that's hardly any "change".

In a short time, the only change the Obama's gonna give you, RF, is
one or two odd dollar coins back from your $100 bill when you buy the
single can of dog food that has to last you all week.

oly

"oly" wrote in message
...
On Apr 22, 12:36 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

...
On Apr 22, 10:58 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:





"oly" wrote in message

...
On Apr 22, 7:52 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

"oly" wrote in message

...
On Apr 21, 7:44 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

"oly" wrote in message

...
On Apr 21, 6:37 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:

oly wrote:
On Apr 21, 3:27 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
PC wrote:
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

I'm still trying to figure out where all those Teabaggers
came
from
all of a sudden, with their posters of Hitler and Mussolini.
They
must have lived in some other country 2001-2009.

Both parties try to manipulate ignorance to varying degrees.
The
Republicans happen to be much, much better at it.

Agreed on the first point. And as for the second point, so many
of
the people of that persuasion consume a steady daily diet of
radio
talk blowhards, some that I know of listen to six+ hours a day
of
yelling about liberals and calling for their deaths, plus an
hour
or
two on the teevee in the evening.

James

Sorry, but the Tea Parties and Partiers are O.K. I suspect had
you
been a government pensioner back then, you would have supported
King
George III to the hilt.

There were indeed such people around, and when they got a whiff of
patriot
rhetoric, they took off for places like Canada.

No tea party or teapartier is OK in my book when he/she conjures
up
images
of WWII dictators at a rally (the equivalent of Godwin's Law) and
declares
that all liberals be put to death (Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, and
Coulter,
to
name just a few, have all planted that idea among the minds of
their
fans).
Wait until you personally receive a death threat for nothing more
than
your
religious or political views. Think it doesn't happen in our Great
Land?
Think again. It does. I've been on the receiving end.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just remember how Dr. Sam. Johnson's 1755 Dictionary defined the
word
"pension".

Many citizens who have deeply held views on the right now feel that
Prince Obango and Pelosi are out to get them.

I have spent my adult life, sad to say, inside the government. It is
not worth 1/20th of what the citizens are forced to pay.

oly
________________

Don't forget that not all of us former govt "lifers" feel that way.
During
my 35 years, I'd say the citizens got their money's worth and more
from
the
folks I worked with. If some of those middle class tax protesters
would
take a closer look at what they actually pay the Fed each year in
income
taxes, they might be surprised that regardless of their 25-28% tax
bracket,
many likely pay less that half of that. With my own 28% bracket, I
actually owed 10.5% of my total income in federal taxes, using the
standard
deduction. Now as for an opinion about how the Fed uses that money
we
send
them, I'm sure we'd find a lots of agreement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If the government pays you three dollars for being one of its "labor-
fakers" and then takes back one dollar, that still doesn't make you
into a productive tax-payer. Beginning and end of story, and we've
been through all of this on another thread. You're still a fraud,
albeit retired, just like everybody inside of government.

And much better Hitler than Mao.
__________________________________

You obviously still have a guilty conscience over your apparent
minimal
contribution as a former government employee, so you paint everyone
else
who
works for the federal govt with your biased brush. Not the case here.
I
still have a few buddies from the military who would take issue with
your
"fraud" claim.

And if the Fed takes 33% of your $3.00, you're either wealthy or you
enjoy
getting screwed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When did you have the mirrors removed in your home, Bruce??? You're
in such denial that obviously you wouldn't be able to look in one.
_____________

Heh. This shows you still prefer to change the subject and spout
childish
insults when challenged. I should have expected it. So now I assume
you're
not only ashamed of your own govt service but also embarrassed that
you've
apparently been paying one third of your income to Uncle Sam. Or should
I
have detected a bit of exaggeration for effect?

Did you find some error in my tax bracket comment that you'd care to
correct? Or am I in denial by not believing that everybody who works for
the government is a fraud? I notice you avoided any specifics but for
some
reason still chose to reply with that mirror and denial stuff. Is your
problem with me that I just can't seem to accept and agree with your
views?
You're getting easier to predict and are becoming increasingly out of
touch
with your "expert" comments and forecasts. That's my view.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

You mentioned the marginal tax rate of 28% and my comment generally
approximated that, though of course that's slightly inaccurate.

If I had said that "If the government pays you four dollars for your
government "job" and then they take back one dollar - that might be
more accurate - but it still doesn't change the conclusion that you
were never a productive taxpayer.
_____________

I guess I don't understand your definition of a "productive" taxpayer.
Who would be an example of a productive tax payer? Are you referring to
everyone who hasn't or doesn't work for the federal (or local?)
government?
Anyone else? I'd be interested if you'd elaborate.
_____________

You weren't and I'm not either. We are tax eaters, not tax payers.

Tax eaters are very cavalier about the real work that the bulk of tax
payers do to pay the taxes. You are just another example.
_________________

Assuming you don't know what I did, how would my work for the government
have been less "real" or significant to society than that of my neighbor
who
was, say, a car salesman? Is the work of a soldier less "real" than that
of an artist because he or she gets a government paycheck?- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

The basic functions of our national government should be to (1)
deliver the mail, (2) defend our coasts and borders, and (3) to chase
and punish thieves and murderers. Everything else that the government
does is dubious at best and always very very expensive compared to the
private sector.

Note that our government does none of those three basic functions
well, nowadays.

To bring this back around to something tangentially related to coins,
our government's finances are in a shambles and have deteriorated very
badly since last fall. Our government fiat currency is on a knife's
edge; get some gold and silver.
_________________

I sort of agree with what you think the basic functions of government should
be. (Are these simply your thoughts, or is this set in stone somewhere?)
But does that mean that only the mailman, soldier, and policeman are
productive taxpayers? Not the thousands of government people who work in
the background to support these essential folks?

I will agree that many agencies of government are bloated with too many
people, a workforce that is much more difficult to cull than would be the
case in private industry. I would also include members of Congress as tax
eaters who produce much less than we pay them for.

I do have some gold and silver bullion which I bought just because it made
me feel comfortable.

"oly" wrote in message
...
In a short time, the only change the Obama's gonna give you, RF, is one
or two odd dollar coins back from your $100 bill when you buy the
single can of dog food that has to last you all week.


Not to worry, I can always hunt for food.
Or trade my silver...

"Bob F." wrote in message
...
"oly" wrote in message
...
The American Experiment and the American Dream are about BOTH
self-government and freedom from government. We have more than crossed
the line. The line between good and bad.

I would say freedom from repressive government.
I applaud Obama's sharp left turn into enlightened socialism.
We need more government and we need it now!
That being said, I must add that I also expect hyperinflation before the
end off Obama's second term.
I also agree that gold, silver, guns and ammunition are wise purchases at
this time.

Whatever you expect to eventually buy with all that gold and silver might be
a better choice to stock up on now before the apocalypse. Otherwise, you'll
have thousands of people with lots of gold and silver but nothing left on
the shelves to buy. Fruitcake seems to keep well in storage.

On Apr 22, 8:02*pm, "Bruce Remick"

Whatever you expect to eventually buy with all that gold and silver might be
a better choice to stock up on now before the apocalypse. *Otherwise, you'll
have thousands of people with lots of gold and silver but nothing left on
the shelves to buy. *Fruitcake seems to keep well in storage.

Splorf!

There goes the Dr. Pepper out my nose and onto the keyboard!

Bruce, I commend you. You can be a very funny guy! Fruitcake indeed!

Ira

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...
Whatever you expect to eventually buy with all that gold and silver
might be a better choice to stock up on now before the apocalypse.
Otherwise, you'll have thousands of people with lots of gold and
silver but nothing left on the shelves to buy. Fruitcake seems to
keep well in storage.

I don't expect an apocalypse.
If you polished up your reading comprehension skills, you would be able
to see that.
Perhaps that's why you could only qualify for a low-level civil service
job (what was it that you did - chase farts out of sheets at a VA
Hospital?).
Anyway, I do expect a very high or perhaps hyper inflation.
I've lived in countries that experienced hyperinflation and my
experience is that life goes on.
I expect gold and silver to maintain a constant value in terms of goods
and services, whereas I expect the dollar will not.
The guns and ammo are just to be on the safe side

"Bob F." wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...
Whatever you expect to eventually buy with all that gold and silver might
be a better choice to stock up on now before the apocalypse. Otherwise,
you'll have thousands of people with lots of gold and silver but nothing
left on the shelves to buy. Fruitcake seems to keep well in storage.

I don't expect an apocalypse.
If you polished up your reading comprehension skills, you would be able to
see that.

Neither do I. I simply commented on your recommendation that guns, ammo,
etc. are wise purchases now. So are you expecting to be doing lots of
hunting?

Perhaps that's why you could only qualify for a low-level civil service
job (what was it that you did - chase farts out of sheets at a VA
Hospital?).

I didn't expect one of your off-subject defensive childish jibes. But I
guess you can't help it..

Anyway, I do expect a very high or perhaps hyper inflation.

I don't. But then I have no problem with those who do. Time will tell.

I've lived in countries that experienced hyperinflation and my experience
is that life goes on.

So have I. Life in those countries does go on, but their economy is often
very erratic from decade to decade.

I expect gold and silver to maintain a constant value in terms of goods
and services, whereas I expect the dollar will not.
The guns and ammo are just to be on the safe side

I prefer the fruitcake. But I am prepared to defend it.

On Apr 22, 7:02*pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"Bob F." wrote in message

...

"oly" wrote in message
....
The American Experiment and the American Dream are about BOTH
self-government and freedom from government. *We have more than crossed
the line. *The line between good and bad.

I would say freedom from repressive government.
I applaud Obama's sharp left turn into enlightened socialism.
We need more government and we need it now!
That being said, I must add that I also expect hyperinflation before the
end off Obama's second term.
I also agree that gold, silver, guns and ammunition are wise purchases at
this time.

Whatever you expect to eventually buy with all that gold and silver might be
a better choice to stock up on now before the apocalypse. *Otherwise, you'll
have thousands of people with lots of gold and silver but nothing left on
the shelves to buy. *Fruitcake seems to keep well in storage.

Where RF is more inconsistent is that he supports Prince Obango
(probably wanting to continue and increase whatever Government check
props up his own daily existence) - but doesn't think that Obango
won't go after RF's guns, ammo, gold and silver. This is ostrich-like
failure to recognize what Obango, Biden, Pelosi, Frank, Kennedy et al.
actually represent.

Fruitcake will be safe, although inevitably inedible.

oly