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#1
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
I'm getting back into actively collecting coins again, and I'm wondering
about the advantages of buying slabbed coins. For example, I'm seeing 2013 silver Libertads being sold slabbed for about 3 times the unslabbed price. Is there any reason I would want to buy the more expensive version? |
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#2
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
On Apr 3, 3:02*pm, Trevor wrote:
I'm getting back into actively collecting coins again, and I'm wondering about the advantages of buying slabbed coins. For example, I'm seeing 2013 silver Libertads being sold slabbed for about 3 times the unslabbed price. Is there any reason I would want to buy the more expensive version? One should be wary of the more expensive version. Look at the slab - I presume that the 2013 Libertad coin is graded a "70", or essentially perfect, by a major third-party grdaing company, in order to justify the price which you indicate is three times an unslabbed coin. Probably if you can find a similar slabbed 2013 Libertad graded "69", the price will be less and the ratio between the "69" graded coin and the unslabbed (or "raw") coin will likely be much less. IMHO, you won't be able to tell the difference between the two coins if they are both in front of you and if the labels on the slabs are covered up. If you must have a slabbed coin, the "69" graded coin is often a relatively bargain. Some speculators send many many many new coins to the major grading companies hoping for the "70" grade. This is game that is played all the time. The coins that "only" get graded "69" still have to be resold somehow and this is why there is a much smaller premium on the "69" graded coin. However, someday in the future, when you go to sell your Libertad, chances are the whole ball of wax will be based on whatever the silver price is at that time. Slabs have a role when the item is pricey (like a gold coin) and when AUTHENTICITY is an important issue. In every instance, YOU yourself should judge the grade and eye appeal of the coin and pay no attention to what the label states the grade is. Presently, the 2013 dated Libertad coin is simply a novelty and you are paying a premium for the enjoyment of possessing the coin when it is brand spanking new. Such demand is fleeting and you are unlikely to get your premium back, so don't go too far above silver spot plus a couple of two or three or five dollars. oly |
#3
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
On Apr 3, 4:31*pm, oly wrote:
On Apr 3, 3:02*pm, Trevor wrote: I'm getting back into actively collecting coins again, and I'm wondering about the advantages of buying slabbed coins. For example, I'm seeing 2013 silver Libertads being sold slabbed for about 3 times the unslabbed price. Is there any reason I would want to buy the more expensive version? One should be wary of the more expensive version. Look at the slab - I presume that the 2013 Libertad coin is graded a "70", or essentially perfect, by a major third-party grdaing company, in order to justify the price which you indicate is three times an unslabbed coin. Probably if you can find a similar slabbed 2013 Libertad graded "69", the price will be less and the ratio between the "69" graded coin and the unslabbed (or "raw") coin will likely be much less. *IMHO, you won't be able to tell the difference between the two coins if they are both in front of you and if the labels on the slabs are covered up. If you must have a slabbed coin, the "69" graded coin is often a relatively bargain. Some speculators send many many many new coins to the major grading companies hoping for the "70" grade. *This is game that is played all the time. *The coins that "only" get graded "69" still have to be resold somehow and this is why there is a much smaller premium on the "69" graded coin. However, someday in the future, when you go to sell your Libertad, chances are the whole ball of wax will be based on whatever the silver price is at that time. Slabs have a role when the item is pricey (like a gold coin) and when AUTHENTICITY is an important issue. *In every instance, YOU yourself should judge the grade and eye appeal of the coin and pay no attention to what the label states the grade is. Presently, the 2013 dated Libertad coin is simply a novelty and you are paying a premium for the enjoyment of possessing the coin when it is brand spanking new. *Such demand is fleeting and you are unlikely to get your premium back, so don't go too far above silver spot plus a couple of two or three or five dollars. oly Need to clarify one of my points better: However, someday in the future, when you go to sell your Libertad (slabbed or unslabbed), chances are the whole ball of wax will be based on whatever the silver price is at that time. Nothing more than bullion - and hopefully nothing less. oly |
#4
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
Thanks, this was very helpful!
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#5
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
"Trevor" wrote in message ...
I'm getting back into actively collecting coins again, and I'm wondering about the advantages of buying slabbed coins. For example, I'm seeing 2013 silver Libertads being sold slabbed for about 3 times the unslabbed price. Is there any reason I would want to buy the more expensive version? You're talking about bullion coins. As an investment I would be reluctant to pay much more than spot for any Unc bullion coin, regardless of whether it's slabbed or not. When it's time to sell, a slabbed MS68 will likely bring about the same bullion-related price as an MS69, with an MS70 likely to bring more, but then you probably would have paid more for it to begin with. Only you can give a reason as to why you might want to pay three times the value for a slabbed version. Buying slabbed coins makes more sense with traditional older collector coins, especially key dates, mostly for authentication but also for ease of resale. Many people advocate buying the coin, not the slab. But there will always be some who will buy the slab purely based on what the grade label says, regardless of whether they agree with the grade or even the coin's appearance. |
#6
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:31:46 -0600, Trevor wrote:
Thanks, this was very helpful! No it wasn't helpful. It was biased and not reflective of the market. MS70 slabbed coins have been on the market and holding their value for quite some time now. MS70 slabbed coins have done well on the open market. Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on them, but denying the reality of the market value is delusional. Ruben http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl |
#7
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
On Apr 6, 12:00*am, Ruben wrote:
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:31:46 -0600, Trevor wrote: Thanks, this was very helpful! No it wasn't helpful. *It was biased and not reflective of the market. MS70 slabbed coins have been on the market and holding their value for quite some time now. *MS70 slabbed coins have done well on the open market. Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on them, but denying the reality of the market value is delusional. Rubenhttp://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl MS70 modern silver coins are a losers' game. If you take a "70" and a "69" on a modern crappy-dappy and cover the labels, you can't tell the difference. A coin that gets a "70" after the graders have had their lunch (or their first drink of the day) might well have been a "69" before lunch or before that first drink. Don't be a sucker. Don't **** away good money. If you must have a slabbed modern silver coin, the "69" is the route to go. But the raw modern silver coin might be the much much better deal yet. Many "values" in numismatics are impermanent as hell. Lots of modern stuff gets puffed up when brand new, and a couple of years later the market is very thin with very poor liquidity. If you wouldn't put your money where your mouth is (and I do own some "69" stuff but not "70" stuff), what good is your opinion??? Sauve qui peut and let the devil take the suckers and their money. oly |
#8
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 23:10:25 -0700, oly wrote:
MS70 modern silver coins are a losers' game. If you take a "70" and a "69" on a modern crappy-dappy and cover the labels, you can't tell the difference. A coin that gets a "70" after the graders have had their lunch (or their first drink of the day) might well have been a "69" before lunch or before that first drink. that is your opinion, but not refelcted in the market. Your entitled to your opinion. You opinion doesn't change market reality. I can't tell the difference between many coin grading states, or die states or varieties. Errors are also hard to see, and so on. Never the less, the market reflects these things without your permision. Ruben http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl |
#9
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
On Apr 6, 2:04*am, Ruben wrote:
On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 23:10:25 -0700, oly wrote: MS70 modern silver coins are a losers' game. *If you take a "70" and a "69" on a modern crappy-dappy and cover the labels, you can't tell the difference. *A coin that gets a "70" after the graders have had their lunch (or their first drink of the day) might well have been a "69" before lunch or before that first drink. that is your opinion, but not refelcted in the market. Your entitled to your opinion. *You opinion doesn't change market reality. *I can't tell the difference between many coin grading states, or die states or varieties. *Errors are also hard to see, and so on. Never the less, the market reflects these things without your permision. Ruben http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl There are large swathes of the present numismatic market that are not realistic and as impermanent as an ice cube in hell. There has been a lot of hucksterism in new coins and/or modern medals in every decade (all or part of six different decades now) that I have collected coins. These unrealistic numismatic areas (or areas to avoid) are characterized by (1) only a handful of market makers; (2) new or novelty items; (3) dealers who are relative newcomers to the public numismatic arena; (4) well-maintained dealer hype, such as "clubs" or "competitions" or "societies" or "registries" as well as outright prevarication; (5) unusually large spreads between dealers' buy and sell prices; (6) when you ask for a price on an item that you wish to sell or sell-back, it will take the dealer a relatively long time to make a bid (if they will do so at all) - which I will call lack of continuous price quotations; (7) lack of numerous serious hobby publications on the item being sold; and finally (8) these dealers and market makers are thinly capitalized and have limited access to credit, so they cannot swing big deals. The better numismatic items/areas (or more desirable areas) are characterized by (1) hundreds or thousands of dealers making a market; (2) items that have a market history of at least 10 or 20 years; (3) dealers who have publicly been in the numismatic coin and bullion coin business in the same location or at least in the same town or city for decades; (4) little or no dealer hype is required to explain or sell the coins being marketed; (5) tighter spreads between dealer buy and sell prices (I might suggest 25% as a limit, but this can vary up or down); (6) items with continuous buying price quotations, like common silver dollars or 90% silver coin or traditional gold coins - these coin prices can usually be ascertained in the numismtaic press or on the internet - a good dealer's prices will be close to these same widely available prices; (7) there are many many serious works of numismatic scholarship on the coins being bought and sold; and (8) these dealers/ market makers have strong business capital bases or personal net worths and they have ready access to outside credit (and they are so well established that they may never need such credit). Years ago (in the 1970s at least), the coin firm of Stack's in NYC used to run a buying advertisement in Coin World every week. It was almost always the same. Stack's "Want List" included the traditional historic U.S. coinage in high grade, with some additional emphasis on U.S. gold coins in all grades and the old standard world gold coins, like Sovereigns, 20 Francs of the Latin Union coinages, German Marks, etc. Any serious collector (with a good eye for a nice looking coin) who restricted his purchases to the same stuff that Stack's wanted to buy did very well, no doubt, in the all ensuing years. Any collector who bought bags of modern U.S. coinage and contemporary modern U.S. Mint Proof and Uncirculated sets did very poorly for the most part, and those who bought Franklin Mint stuff did only as well as those medals contained sterling silver and if they closely followed bullion markets and sold at the right times. Please note, that even the good traditional numismatic items can wax and wane in market demand and that the numismatic industry has experienced widespread price collapses in the past. Demand for bullion coins also waxes and wanes. The good traditional stuff suffers but survives these widespread market reverses. On the other hand, the novelty stuff can readily become unsaleable, even when times in markets are good, when the promoter dealers move on to the next promotion. I hope I avoided too many spelling errors here... oly |
#10
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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?
"Ruben" wrote in message news
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:31:46 -0600, Trevor wrote: Thanks, this was very helpful! No it wasn't helpful. It was biased and not reflective of the market. MS70 slabbed coins have been on the market and holding their value for quite some time now. MS70 slabbed coins have done well on the open market. Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on them, but denying the reality of the market value is delusional. Ruben http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl -------- Some slabbed modern MS70 coins may hold their value today, but not likely as a long term "rarities". Too many of them suddenly being offered to a gullible collector base. Perhaps you don't recall just a short time ago when any coin graded MS70 was unthinkable. Don't you ever wonder how dealers and shopping channels can always obtain so many of them (to order?) for their stock, most of which are usually Mint-issued bullion "coins"? Oly is right when he says that many people who buy these things couldn't tell a 69 from a 70, or even a 68, if the slab label were covered. The irony is that after you've spent big bucks for that slabbed MS70 Eagle, a year later it's value may have plummeted because it doesn't have a CAC sticker or an MS70++ label on it. Your MS70 will have turned into an MS69, value-wise. |
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