Lawsuit to be filed over "In God we trust" on coins and currency

Donald Hovatter wrote:
Any maniac can murder for any reason they choose. A good example
would be the most famous atheist of all. Hitler killed what, 15, 20
million?

Uh... Godwin?

Nah, just a now obvious poor example on my part Bob. Maybe Mao would
have been a better choice?

Mao's good, as is Stalin. Perhaps Pol Pot? I don't remember if he was an
atheist.

The point's well taken, though -- there are people of most every belief
who resort to murder and genocide. Millions have been murdered in the
name of God, millions have been murdered by those who lack God, and
millions more have been murdered for no religious/areligious reason
whatsoever. Humanity is a beastly species...

--
Bob

"Johnny Thunders" "Johnny wrote in message
...
Honus wrote:

"Donald Hovatter" wrote in message
news:3FUef.17954$rO4.8219@trnddc05...

I don't know how it happens, but I personaly think anyone who kills in
the
name of God most certainly isn't of God.

"From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some
small
boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they
shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he
cursed
them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods
and
tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)"

The Bible says that Elisha was a man of God...and who are we to
disagree?


That's the old testament.

I'm well aware of that. He said "in the name of God". He didn't say in the
name of Jesus, or Christianity. A minor nit-pick.

"Donald Hovatter" wrote in message
news:i50ff.21693$w85.6857@trnddc02...

"Honus" wrote in message
news:4lVef.18906$w85.8348@trnddc02...

"Donald Hovatter" wrote in message
news:2uUef.17952$rO4.8962@trnddc05...

Hitler used the Catholic Church to further
his agenda, nothing more. He was a self proclaimed athiest.

I agree with the part about Hitler using the church, but I'd sure like
to
see a single quote where he claimed to be an athiest. I can show you any
number where he claims to be a follower of Christ, though.


Hitler's Table Talk (Adolf Hitler, London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1953).

snip

Nice try.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_H...ristian_Quotes

"Included in the disputed quotes are a number of quotes concerning
Christianity. The authenticity of the statements is doubtful. Many are taken
from the book Hitler Speaks by Rauschning, who only met Hitler on four
occasions at Nazi party functions and only engaged in small talk. He was
forced to resign under pressure from Hitler in the early 1930s. Rauschning
later moved to the United States where he became a Christian Conservative
[1]. Scholars tend to regard these quotes as forgeries. Point 24 of the
Party Program, calls for the standpoint of "positive Christianity", which
although Christian at it's core was a heavily modified by the German culture
of the time, rejecting the Old Testament and insisting on Christ's
Aryanhood. It is for these reasons that these quotes are doubtful. The
majority of the anti-Christian opinions (and quotes) appear in a single
book. Scholars also note a number of factual errors and extremely
uncharacteristic actions are cited in the book. There are also some notable
quotes in Hitler's Table Talk, some of the original German notes show clear
evidence of authenticity (two seperate notes, which quite often agree) in
regard to some items. However, most of the Anti-Christian comments do not
appear in the original German version of the notes, but only in the
Trevor-Roper English translation of the notes."

The quotes, it seems, are disputed. The quotes from Mein Kampf aren't.
Here's a few:

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html


I especially like these, taken from a couple of speeches of his:

“And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith
are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it
is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of
Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I
will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many
wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I
would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went
arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal
damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party,
theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same
Government.”

“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have
therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not
merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.”

He may have been a theist one day, an atheist the next. Who knows?

IMO, we need to remember a couple of critical points when we're discussing
whether Hitler was an atheist or a theist: he was probably a lunatic, and
was most certainly a successful politician. I don't see any compelling need
to believe anything that he ever said under those circumstances. Why try to
make sense of the insensible?

In article Dave Hinz writes:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:20:20 GMT, Dik T. Winter wrote:
This is getting seriously off-topic. My last posting in this thread.

In article Johnny Thunders "Johnny writes:

I've heard it said that the German people turned a blind eye to the
holocaust because the Jews killed Jesus.

I've heard it was not only the German people but also the pope...

I've heard that space aliens control our government. Doesn't mean it's
true.

Good, one more posting. When did the RC church acknowledge that the
Jews did not kill Jesus? When did the RC church apologise for the
blessing of German war articles and other stuff just before and during
the war? You can cast many doubts of the behaviour of the RC church
in the thirties and during the war, the complete story is not yet told.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:37:16 -0500, Johnny Thunders "Johnny wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:47:54 -0500, Johnny Thunders "Johnny wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

I've heard that space aliens control our government. Doesn't mean it's
true.

Sometimes is does seem that way!

Complete and utter missing of the point noted.

Can't see a joke when it's in front of you.

Good to know that I'm not, you know, wasting my time or something.

LOL

JAM