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Another approach to image theft



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 12th 05, 10:46 PM
Reid Goldsborough
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft

A few days ago I left a post describing how I complained to eBay about
how a replica maker stole an image on one of my Web pages and used it
without my permission to sell his replicas on eBay. eBay NARUed him
for about a week (I had expected them to just warn the guy), but he
stopped what he was doing.

A couple of days ago, not looking for it, I chanced upon another
example of a company taking a coin photo from one of my sites, this
time of a Lydian electrum trite, and using it to sell gold and silver
bullion. The page of theirs was on the history of coins. This was a
private site, not connected to eBay. In the past when this has
happened in a similar commercial setting, I've sent a cease and desist
email to the person or company, and that has worked.

This time I emailed an invoice for $100, including all of my contact
information. First the vice president of the company phoned. Then the
Webmaster, a guy with a British accent, phoned from Thailand. (!) The
company had farmed out the Web site to him. He said that he didn't
know that my image was copyrighted (I explained that all images are
and that there's a lot of confusion over this) and that Web copyright
isn't clear (I explained that it was clear and is no different from
print copyright though there's also a lot of confusion out there over
this). We had a nice five-minute chat, business-oriented and cordial.
He concluded by asking if it were all right for the company to send me
a contract for use of my photo, and I said of course. I mailed it back
today and am awaiting the check.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer:
http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos
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  #2  
Old November 12th 05, 11:32 PM
Dale Hallmark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft

I have found many ebay listings that have quoted my writing from my site
about specific items.
Some even provided a link to my site and said if interested more information
here.
I really am very flattered by it. What is even more flattering is that some
of the sellers were German and some Austrian
which if you are familiar with my site, you might think they would know more
about the items on my site than I do.
Surprises the heck out of me anyway.

Some FEW have asked to use certain information beforehand. Well information
itself can't be copyrighted
but the presentation of that information can. I always gave permission.

I don't recall ever seeing a listing that used one of my images however. I
would most likely give permission
but not sure how I would feel if not asked.

With that being said. Not everything on my site is mine ( about 95% is
mine) and I don't have permission to use
everything I have used. I don't sell anything so maybe all I would get
would be a cease and desist warning.
I know it is wrong but I did it anyway.

Seems to me a lot of times people like me for instance
go ahead and use something and if no one complains then great we got away
with it ;-)
I don't make a profit from it but that doesn't justify it either.

I like the way you handled your situation and if you get that $100; are you
going to
invest it in a coin? ;-) I know I would. lol

Dale
http://www.austriancoins.com







"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
A few days ago I left a post describing how I complained to eBay about
how a replica maker stole an image on one of my Web pages and used it
without my permission to sell his replicas on eBay. eBay NARUed him
for about a week (I had expected them to just warn the guy), but he
stopped what he was doing.

A couple of days ago, not looking for it, I chanced upon another
example of a company taking a coin photo from one of my sites, this
time of a Lydian electrum trite, and using it to sell gold and silver
bullion. The page of theirs was on the history of coins. This was a
private site, not connected to eBay. In the past when this has
happened in a similar commercial setting, I've sent a cease and desist
email to the person or company, and that has worked.

This time I emailed an invoice for $100, including all of my contact
information. First the vice president of the company phoned. Then the
Webmaster, a guy with a British accent, phoned from Thailand. (!) The
company had farmed out the Web site to him. He said that he didn't
know that my image was copyrighted (I explained that all images are
and that there's a lot of confusion over this) and that Web copyright
isn't clear (I explained that it was clear and is no different from
print copyright though there's also a lot of confusion out there over
this). We had a nice five-minute chat, business-oriented and cordial.
He concluded by asking if it were all right for the company to send me
a contract for use of my photo, and I said of course. I mailed it back
today and am awaiting the check.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer:
http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos



  #3  
Old November 12th 05, 11:40 PM
Bob Flaminio
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft

Reid Goldsborough wrote:
He concluded by asking if it were all right for the company to send me
a contract for use of my photo, and I said of course. I mailed it back
today and am awaiting the check.


Dude! That's sweet. Do let us know if you get the money. That's a great
way to stick it to the image thiefs.

--
Bob


  #4  
Old November 12th 05, 11:54 PM
TerryS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft


"Stujoe" wrote in message
.net...
I don't buy it but Wikipedia seems to take the position that pictures of
US coins ineligible to be copyrighted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Morgan_dollar.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Money-US



--
Coin Information Site:
http://www.Stujoe.com


The "design' is ineligible for copyright.

TerryS


  #5  
Old November 12th 05, 11:57 PM
Michael Benveniste
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft


"Stujoe" wrote in message
.net...
I don't buy it but Wikipedia seems to take the position that pictures of
US coins ineligible to be copyrighted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Morgan_dollar.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Money-US


I don't read it that way at all. I strongly advise against
taking legal advice on copyright from internet randoms.
You may safely assume I'm an internet random, and this is
not a legal opinion.

They correctly state that the design of the Morgan Dollar is
in the public domain. For purposes of copyright law, that's
true. You can create an image or a replica of a Morgan dollar
without worrying about the Federal government suing you for
copyright violations. Anti-counterfeiting and fraud laws are
a different matter.

It also seems that they've placed _that_ picture of a
Morgan Dollar in the public domain, which they certainly
have a right to do. But I don't see any claim that _all_
images of Morgan Dollars are not copyrightable, nor do I
believe such a claim to be a correct statement of law.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.



  #6  
Old November 13th 05, 01:31 AM
Jorg Lueke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft


Stujoe wrote:
Michael Benveniste spoke thusly...

"Stujoe" wrote in message
.net...
I don't buy it but Wikipedia seems to take the position that pictures of
US coins ineligible to be copyrighted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Morgan_dollar.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Money-US


I don't read it that way at all. I strongly advise against
taking legal advice on copyright from internet randoms.
You may safely assume I'm an internet random, and this is
not a legal opinion.

They correctly state that the design of the Morgan Dollar is
in the public domain. For purposes of copyright law, that's
true. You can create an image or a replica of a Morgan dollar
without worrying about the Federal government suing you for
copyright violations. Anti-counterfeiting and fraud laws are
a different matter.

It also seems that they've placed _that_ picture of a
Morgan Dollar in the public domain, which they certainly
have a right to do. But I don't see any claim that _all_
images of Morgan Dollars are not copyrightable, nor do I
believe such a claim to be a correct statement of law.



They say it in a number of places including the discussion page of the
above:

"for images of the official currency of the United States. These are in
the public domain."

I don't agree with it either but it is the position they appear to be
taking in many places on the site. In other places they say that images
of other country's currencies are not treated the same way. I went
reading some of the discussions on it one day because it was not
something I agree with.

This is one area where any advice is speculative. Even if things ever
went to court it seems like they could go either way. On the one hand
the actual art (coins and currency) is in the public domain and taking
a picture could be considered slavish reproduction (especially on a
scanner) and therefore not due any protection. On the other hand one
could argue that taking the picture is an art and the new work is
copyright protected as a uniquely created work rather than a derivative
work of an existing piece of art in the public domain.

Of course if you always ask before using other's images there's little
to worry about.

  #7  
Old November 13th 05, 01:54 AM
Jorg Lueke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft


Stujoe wrote:
Jorg Lueke spoke thusly...

Of course if you always ask before using other's images there's little
to worry about.


That's my policy for anything I use on my site. It is just safer that
way and you don't have to worry about fair use or ineligibility or
anything else. I have never had anyone say "no" although I have had a
couple of people ignore me.

Ditto, people seem to be a lot more comfortable not saying anything
rather than saying no. I suppose that's why telemarketers can succeed
:-P

  #8  
Old November 13th 05, 02:53 AM
????
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft

What would the civil penality be if they refused to stop using you photo?


"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
A few days ago I left a post describing how I complained to eBay about
how a replica maker stole an image on one of my Web pages and used it
without my permission to sell his replicas on eBay. eBay NARUed him
for about a week (I had expected them to just warn the guy), but he
stopped what he was doing.

A couple of days ago, not looking for it, I chanced upon another
example of a company taking a coin photo from one of my sites, this
time of a Lydian electrum trite, and using it to sell gold and silver
bullion. The page of theirs was on the history of coins. This was a
private site, not connected to eBay. In the past when this has
happened in a similar commercial setting, I've sent a cease and desist
email to the person or company, and that has worked.

This time I emailed an invoice for $100, including all of my contact
information. First the vice president of the company phoned. Then the
Webmaster, a guy with a British accent, phoned from Thailand. (!) The
company had farmed out the Web site to him. He said that he didn't
know that my image was copyrighted (I explained that all images are
and that there's a lot of confusion over this) and that Web copyright
isn't clear (I explained that it was clear and is no different from
print copyright though there's also a lot of confusion out there over
this). We had a nice five-minute chat, business-oriented and cordial.
He concluded by asking if it were all right for the company to send me
a contract for use of my photo, and I said of course. I mailed it back
today and am awaiting the check.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer:
http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos



  #9  
Old November 13th 05, 03:10 AM
Jeff R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft


"Stujoe" wrote in message
.net...
TerryS spoke thusly...

"Stujoe" wrote in message
.net...
I don't buy it but Wikipedia seems to take the position that pictures

of
US coins ineligible to be copyrighted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Morgan_dollar.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Money-US



--
Coin Information Site:
http://www.Stujoe.com


The "design' is ineligible for copyright.


I agree. And I disagree that photos of them are in the public domain.

--
Coin Information Site:
http://www.Stujoe.com



I don't think that anyone would dispute that Campbell's Ltd own the
copyright for the design of their soup can labels.
I further doubt that anyone would successfully argue that Andy Warhol does
*not* own the copyright to his oversize prints of these labels.

Same artwork - different producer (I hesitate to say "artist", or
"executor").

Does Andy Warhol own the rights to his prints, even though they are slavish
copies?

How about a photograph of a famous public building? Who owns the rights to
the photo? The photographer or the architect?

--
Jeff R.
(curiouser and curiouser)



  #10  
Old November 13th 05, 04:23 AM
Jeff R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another approach to image theft


"Stujoe" wrote in message
.net...

How about if I go to an art gallery and take a picture of a 200 year old
painting that is just the painting and nothing else? Do I own the
copyright on that photo if it is indistinguishable from any other photo
take by any other tourist at any time? How about if I scan a 200 year
old photo?


--
Coin Information Site:
http://www.Stujoe.com


These, and all the related questions, certainly take the "I am not a lawyer"
disclaimer to new heights.

--
Jeff R.


 




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