Help on Estonian philatelic covers, please?

Dear friends,

We have been offered (on an auction) the two covers

http://my.qxl.dk/accdb/viewItem.asp?IDI=14291240

(click on the lower photo to switch between the two covers)

The seller ask for 3000 USD (starting bid) but say that they have a
catalogue value of 17,000 USD. The seller claims that there is no need
to have them expertised!

As far as I can see they are both heavily over franked and sent to the
same person which can indicate that they are both made by a
philatelist. Whom of you can say something about these two covers,
please.

Thanks in advance!
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/

Hi Toke,

Can you provide an English translation of the description
(Varebeskrivelse).

Jay Carrigan change domain to mchsi
www.jaypex.com


In article ,
says...

Dear friends,

We have been offered (on an auction) the two covers

http://my.qxl.dk/accdb/viewItem.asp?IDI=14291240

(click on the lower photo to switch between the two covers)

The seller ask for 3000 USD (starting bid) but say that they have a
catalogue value of 17,000 USD. The seller claims that there is no need
to have them expertised!

As far as I can see they are both heavily over franked and sent to the
same person which can indicate that they are both made by a
philatelist. Whom of you can say something about these two covers,
please.

Thanks in advance!
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/

Toke Nørby wrote:
We have been offered (on an auction) the two covers

http://my.qxl.dk/accdb/viewItem.asp?IDI=14291240

(click on the lower photo to switch between the two covers)

The seller ask for 3000 USD (starting bid) but say that they have a
catalogue value of 17,000 USD. The seller claims that there is no need
to have them expertised!


*If* "før mærkerne bliver overtrykt POST EESTI" in English = the stampsa re
overprinted 'POST EESTI', they might be interesting but I can't see any such
overprint in the images shown. Surely there would be nothing unusual about
Soviet stamps being used in Estonia at this time unless it was after the German
invasion and occupation, when the German's issued other stamps?

--
Ian Billings
Norvic Philatelics
Website: http://www.norvic-philatelics.co.uk
Online sto http://www.norphil.co.uk/catalog


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"Jay T. Carrigan" skrev i en meddelelse
news:9FPhd.288117$wV.115321@attbi_s54...

Hi,
I am not totally Toke, but i will try anyway. The description says:

"2 letters from Estonia, cancelled when the russians came to Estonia, but
before the stamps were overprinted POST ESTII, the same stamps with the
overprint are in the Michel catalogue with a value of appr. 100.000.00 kr,
without addition for being on a letter, here is a good offer med cheap
starting bid ONLY 15.000,00 kr.".

Reading this, i get the idea that if the stamps HAD the overprint, then they
could be found in Michel at a high price, but that does not say anyhing
about the actual items for sale, which, to me, looks provoced (sp?)..

Michael

without addition for being on a letter, here is a good offer med cheap
starting bid ONLY 15.000,00 kr.".

Danish for beginners : 'med' = 'with'

/Michael

Then the description seems accurate based on what I could see
in the scans. But it's a little like an American seller saying
"If the airplane on this 24 cent airmail stamp were upside down,
then it would be worth $100,000."

The Soviet Union absorbed Estonia in June 1940. Beginning on
1.1.1941, only Soviet stamps were valid for franking. In June
1941, Estonia was occupied by Germany. The "Eesti Post"
overprints mentioned were a 10 July local issue from Elva.

I read the postmark date on these covers as May 31, 1941 (but
I'm not 100% certain). What I find interesting is that 11
months after assimilation into the Soviet Union, Estonian
language postmarks were still being used. I would at least
expect bilingual postmarks in Estonia's capital.

The rate for a local letter at this time was only 15 kopecks,
so both covers are way overfranked. In my opinion, they
should be priced as used stamps. No premium for 'on cover'
is deserved.

Jay Carrigan change domain to mchsi
www.jaypex.com


In article ,
says...

"Jay T. Carrigan" skrev i en meddelelse
news:9FPhd.288117$wV.115321@attbi_s54...

Hi,
I am not totally Toke, but i will try anyway. The description says:

"2 letters from Estonia, cancelled when the russians came to Estonia, but
before the stamps were overprinted POST ESTII, the same stamps with the
overprint are in the Michel catalogue with a value of appr. 100.000.00 kr,
without addition for being on a letter, here is a good offer med cheap
starting bid ONLY 15.000,00 kr.".

Reading this, i get the idea that if the stamps HAD the overprint, then they
could be found in Michel at a high price, but that does not say anyhing
about the actual items for sale, which, to me, looks provoced (sp?)..

Michael

(Jay T. Carrigan) wrote:

Then the description seems accurate based on what I could see
in the scans. But it's a little like an American seller saying
"If the airplane on this 24 cent airmail stamp were upside down,
then it would be worth $100,000."

The Soviet Union absorbed Estonia in June 1940. Beginning on
1.1.1941, only Soviet stamps were valid for franking. In June
1941, Estonia was occupied by Germany. The "Eesti Post"
overprints mentioned were a 10 July local issue from Elva.

I read the postmark date on these covers as May 31, 1941 (but
I'm not 100% certain). What I find interesting is that 11
months after assimilation into the Soviet Union, Estonian
language postmarks were still being used. I would at least
expect bilingual postmarks in Estonia's capital.

The rate for a local letter at this time was only 15 kopecks,
so both covers are way overfranked. In my opinion, they
should be priced as used stamps. No premium for 'on cover'
is deserved.

Hi Jay (it was good to meet you in person a few weeks ago :-)

... and thanks, Michael, for the translation (I have been away from my
'puter all evening).

Jay, you are right about the date as far as I can see and the saying
about the upside down airplane is exactly how the seller describes the
two covers!

My knowledge of Estonian philately is very limited (close to zero) but
as far as I can see the stamps are very common - and I have just
received an answer from one of Mette's friends in Estonia. He told me
that the stamps are common and (to Ian) that Russian stamps (without
overprints) also were fairly common used after the occupation of the
Germans.

So the conclusion on the value is - as yours - "only a few dollars"!

Thanks to all! I had to be certain as this seller is a very special
person - he writes: "I am the most knowledgeable person in Western
Europe regarding the Baltic countries" - Sheesh!

I now intend to "ask seller a question" :-)
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/

Toke Nørby wrote in message . ..
Dear friends,

We have been offered (on an auction) the two covers

http://my.qxl.dk/accdb/viewItem.asp?IDI=14291240

(click on the lower photo to switch between the two covers)

The seller ask for 3000 USD (starting bid) but say that they have a
catalogue value of 17,000 USD. The seller claims that there is no need
to have them expertised!

As far as I can see they are both heavily over franked and sent to the
same person which can indicate that they are both made by a
philatelist. Whom of you can say something about these two covers,
please.

Thanks in advance!

================================================== ==========================

Toke:

As a matter of principle --- If I bid $3000.00 plus on ANY lot, I
would expect the right to submit it for an expert certificate. If the
experts said it was a fake, I would want a written guarantee of my
money back PLUS reimbursement of all the expertizing costs.

By the way these stamps look to me like part of the set Scott
#794-810. All Union Agriculture Fair (Oct 1940). This set of 17
stamps catalogues at: $50 (MNH) $25.40 (Mint Hinged) $15 (used).

What makes these covers so rare?

Blair

Perhaps Thomas Löbbering, the BPP expert for Estonia, should make
this person's acquaintance.

Jay Carrigan change domain to mchsi
www.jaypex.com


In article ,
says...

....

Thanks to all! I had to be certain as this seller is a very special
person - he writes: "I am the most knowledgeable person in Western
Europe regarding the Baltic countries" - Sheesh!

I now intend to "ask seller a question" :-)
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/

(Jay T. Carrigan) wrote:

Perhaps Thomas Löbbering, the BPP expert for Estonia, should make
this person's acquaintance.

Yes, thanks. I sent him an e-mail on Nov. 2nd but he has not yet
answered back.
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/