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Classifying non-circulating non-legal tender papermoney



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 18th 03, 09:16 PM
Scottishmoney
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Default Classifying non-circulating non-legal tender papermoney

If you want to consider real circulating notes and not notes of somewhat
unusual issue, consider the banknotes of Scotland; Royal Bank of Scotland,
Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale Bank are still issuing notes which are not
legal tender, are circulating throughout Scotland as medium, and have no
Government sponsorship. They are backed on the faith in the banks issuing
them, and their deposits with Bank of England as a guarantee.

Hong Kong also has a number of banks, three or four which continue to issue
their own distinctive notes, one Bank of China is owned by the Chinese Govt,
the others are public corporations.

Dave
"Garry" wrote in message
m...
We are trying to determine a way to classify non-government, non-legal
tender banknote issues and would appreciate hearing opinions.

Recently we received this comment from Alexander Ganse on this question
..."To combine serious currency with bogus issues in one and the same
catalogue (www.numismondo.com), without clearly distinguishing them into
categories, results in the danger that some users will not take the entire
catalogue serious."

Alexander Ganse runs the World History website
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/index.html and has linked to several pages on
www.numismondo.com. He makes a good point and as a result we are trying to
find a way to better distinguish these notes from
government/state/provincial legal tender issues. Many of these

micronations
exist only as a website and have no legal status. We have chosen to

include
them in the catalog because they are collectible items and in some cases
examples of these notes are hard for collectors to find.

Some examples of these issues are listed below.

Thoughts?

Garry Saint, Esquire,
IBNS, LANSA
Webmaster http://numismondo.com

Examples:
Alaska-Russian American Company http://numismondo.com/pm/aka/
Jason Islands http://www.numismondo.com/pm/jas/
Herm Island http://www.numismondo.com/pm/his/
Hutt River Province http://numismondo.com/pm/hut/
Khakasiya http://numismondo.com/pm/kaz/
Landreth http://www.numismondo.com/pm/lan/
Padania http://numismondo.com/pm/pad/
etc.




Ads
  #2  
Old October 23rd 03, 03:21 AM
Padraic Brown
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:16:51 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote:

If you want to consider real circulating notes and not notes of somewhat
unusual issue, consider the banknotes of Scotland; Royal Bank of Scotland,
Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale Bank are still issuing notes which are not
legal tender, are circulating throughout Scotland as medium, and have no
Government sponsorship. They are backed on the faith in the banks issuing
them, and their deposits with Bank of England as a guarantee.


Sorry I'm seeing this late, but the Scottish situation is interesting.
I didn't know they weren't legal tender, though. How is it they can
issue them, then? More to the point, how popular are they in Scotland?
England? [Clearly they are extremely popular in Ebayland!] How do
Scots view this situation? Why isn't there a move to make the
situation more regular - or is there?

As Scotland moves towards greater independence, will the Scottish
government in some way begin to back these notes (as presumably
England backs the BoE notes)? How long would the exchange equivalence
last if the two systems became separate?

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
  #3  
Old October 23rd 03, 11:51 AM
Scottishmoney
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Default


"Padraic Brown" wrote in message
Sorry I'm seeing this late, but the Scottish situation is interesting.
I didn't know they weren't legal tender, though. How is it they can
issue them, then? More to the point, how popular are they in Scotland?
England? [Clearly they are extremely popular in Ebayland!] How do
Scots view this situation? Why isn't there a move to make the
situation more regular - or is there?


The only protest have been very occasional challenges in sheriffs courts on
what qualifies as legal tender. The general consensus have been that it it
whatever is accepted by the majority of the population. They do make up the
great majority of the circulating paper medium of exchange in Scotland, in
fact are universally accepted in Scotland. In England there is no
obligation to accept the Scottish banknotes and some shopkeepers will resist
taking them and cannot be forced to accept them.


As Scotland moves towards greater independence, will the Scottish
government in some way begin to back these notes (as presumably
England backs the BoE notes)? How long would the exchange equivalence
last if the two systems became separate?

Padraic.


I think the bigger threat to continued Scottish banknote issues will be the
possible introduction of the Euro into Britain. Even in the event the two
nations divorce themselves, in all likelyhood the £ will have gone the way
of the £SD anyway and the play money from Euroland will reign and exchange
in both countries.

Dave


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  #4  
Old October 24th 03, 01:42 AM
Padraic Brown
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Default

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:51:20 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote:


The only protest have been very occasional challenges in sheriffs courts on
what qualifies as legal tender. The general consensus have been that it it
whatever is accepted by the majority of the population.


Interesting! A different solution to over here, where there is a
standard of what has to be accepted!

They do make up the
great majority of the circulating paper medium of exchange in Scotland, in
fact are universally accepted in Scotland. In England there is no
obligation to accept the Scottish banknotes and some shopkeepers will resist
taking them and cannot be forced to accept them.


Do some English merchants take them? Are merchants along the border
more likely to accept them, in the way northern New York merchants
accept Canadian dollars?

As Scotland moves towards greater independence, will the Scottish
government in some way begin to back these notes (as presumably
England backs the BoE notes)? How long would the exchange equivalence
last if the two systems became separate?


I think the bigger threat to continued Scottish banknote issues will be the
possible introduction of the Euro into Britain.


Hm. How popular is the notion of Eurofying the UK or even just
Scotland?

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
  #5  
Old October 24th 03, 11:17 AM
Scottishmoney
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"Padraic Brown" wrote in message

Do some English merchants take them? Are merchants along the border
more likely to accept them, in the way northern New York merchants
accept Canadian dollars?


Many english merchants will accept them, many but certainly not all. Our
very own Note.Boy had experiences with this during a recent foray into
Yorkshire. I have seen very few instances where American merchants accepted
Canadian $, at Niagara Falls, and then in Sault Ste. Marie Michigan, where
it seems like lots of Canadians shop in the grocery stores as a tax haven.
On the other hand I can spend US $ anywhere in Canada, provided I will
accept only Canadian $ in change as is the rule in the places I have done
it. Recently the Canadian $ has appreciated considerably against the US$,
it is now 77¢ for a Canadian $, but a year or so ago it was in the low 60¢
range.

Hm. How popular is the notion of Eurofying the UK or even just
Scotland?

Padraic.


Perhaps a bit less popular than the notion of Eurofying has been in Denmark
or Sweden. Many merchants in the larger cities willingly accept Euro cash
in transactions, it is good business, but otherwise the general public
rather seem against the idea. The Pound has a long and proud history and
even survived the trauma of two World Wars, and decimalisation in 1971. So
it is a bit of an institution which I don't see going away unless something
dramatic happens.

Dave


  #6  
Old October 24th 03, 12:42 PM
Darren
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:42:48 -0400, Padraic Brown
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:51:20 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote:


The only protest have been very occasional challenges in sheriffs courts on
what qualifies as legal tender. The general consensus have been that it it
whatever is accepted by the majority of the population.


Interesting! A different solution to over here, where there is a
standard of what has to be accepted!


It is perhaps more interesting than that, the only legal tender in
Scotland are the one, and two, pound coins. No bank notes are legal
tender in Scotland, and this includes those issued by the Bank of
England.


They do make up the
great majority of the circulating paper medium of exchange in Scotland, in
fact are universally accepted in Scotland. In England there is no
obligation to accept the Scottish banknotes and some shopkeepers will resist
taking them and cannot be forced to accept them.


I haven't had a note refused for some time. You get the occasional
strange look but no more than that. I should say at this point that I
live in England.

Do some English merchants take them? Are merchants along the border
more likely to accept them, in the way northern New York merchants
accept Canadian dollars?


It's not the same distinction. Scotland is not a different country(!)

As Scotland moves towards greater independence, will the Scottish
government in some way begin to back these notes (as presumably
England backs the BoE notes)? How long would the exchange equivalence
last if the two systems became separate?


Scottish Government... s******


I think the bigger threat to continued Scottish banknote issues will be the
possible introduction of the Euro into Britain.


Hm. How popular is the notion of Eurofying the UK or even just
Scotland?


Some schools of thought (OK, it's just me) think there is a greater
probability of the UK accepting the US dollar in place of the pound
and rather than the Euro. It comes down to whether the UK has a
European economy or not. Of course if it were agreed that we could
have the Queen on the paper money, sure, no problem.

Darren


  #7  
Old October 24th 03, 01:24 PM
Scottishmoney
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Default


"Darren" wrote in message

It's not the same distinction. Scotland is not a different country(!)


Tell that to a Scot, rather to his face.


Scottish Government... s******
Darren


I believe one could take serious exception to the last statement in your
message, but for the mere fact that the Scottish Parliament has done
absolutely nothing beyond appropriating some £400.000.000,00 for the
construction of their new parliament building. Aside from gold plated
priveys and sumptious lounge chairs in their new domicile they have
accomplished practically nil for the Scottish nation.

Sad, but they set out with the aim of devolution, but the end result maybe
the opposite as people get fed up with their excess and lack of affirmative
legislation on behalf of Scotland. I have seen polls in the press that have
suggested this is causing some discord amongst voters whom were previously
in favour of having a Scottish Parliament.

Have a looky at this article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3129822.stm

Dave



  #8  
Old October 24th 03, 08:04 PM
Padraic Brown
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Default

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:24:51 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote:


"Darren" wrote in message

It's not the same distinction. Scotland is not a different country(!)


Tell that to a Scot, rather to his face.


Quite.

the Scottish Parliament has done
absolutely nothing beyond appropriating some £400.000.000,00 for the
construction of their new parliament building. Aside from gold plated
priveys and sumptious lounge chairs in their new domicile they have
accomplished practically nil for the Scottish nation.


Sounds like they're doing what Government does best: steal and spend
money on its own behalf. Sad indeed.

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
  #9  
Old October 24th 03, 10:07 PM
Darren
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:04:43 -0400, Padraic Brown
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:24:51 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote:


"Darren" wrote in message

It's not the same distinction. Scotland is not a different country(!)


Tell that to a Scot, rather to his face.


Quite.


Done it. It really isn't a problem, other than with a vocal minority.
In fact I had to listen to a lecture, by a Scotsman, as to why
devolution was going to be a bad idea (this was a few years ago)

Maybe I know the wrong kind of Scotsmen...

I wouldn't go as far to say Scotland is part of England, but I be
interested if anyone is planning to follow Scotland's progress at the
Olympics next year, or England's for that matter.

Thanks
Darren

  #10  
Old October 24th 03, 10:55 PM
Padraic Brown
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:07:46 +0000 (UTC), Darren
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:04:43 -0400, Padraic Brown
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:24:51 -0400, "Scottishmoney"
wrote:


"Darren" wrote in message

Scotland is not a different country(!)

Tell that to a Scot, rather to his face.


Quite.


I wouldn't go as far to say Scotland is part of England,


Though you just did! "It's not a different country" = "It's the same
country", in case you're wondering.

but I be interested if anyone is planning to follow Scotland's progress at the
Olympics next year, or England's for that matter.


I don't know. Are they planning on sending separate teams, then? I
suspect the Scots and the English would follow their progress with
some interest. Why? Do you think they wouldn't?

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
 




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