Meaning of "mlrd"

MILLIONS and BILLIONS.....

How big is a million? Do you know? and do you really care? And did you
know there are two "billions"? The word "millione" was coined in Italy
from mille (Latin, "thousand") to mean "great thousand" and this has
given us our word "million." Around 1484, N. Chuquet coined the words
billion, trillion, . . ., nonillion, which also appeared in print in a
1520 book by Emile de la Roche.

These arithmeticians used "illion" after the prefixes
b, tr, quadr, quint, sext, sept, oct and non
to denote the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th powers
of a million.

So a billion was (1 million) squared, a trillion was (1 million)
cubed and so on.

Then around the middle of the 17th century, some other French
arithmeticians used the same words instead for the 3rd, 4th,
5th, 6th 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th powers of a thousand, which was
not very logical, because if you're going to use powers of
a thousand, then the "bi-(something)" should be 1000 squared and not
1000 cubed!

Although condemned by the greatest lexicographers as "erroneous"
(Littre) and "an entire perversion of the original nomenclature of
Chuquet and de la Roche" (Murray), this newer usage is now standard
in the USA, and its use is spreading with the increasing use of
computers (an industry dominated by the US).

The older logical system survives in Britain and is still standard
in continental countries.

Nothing stands still. The symbol for a million in Ancient Egypt was a
pictogram of a man holding up his hands in surprise; and before this
century who needed anything bigger than a million? Numbers and
corporations get bigger, and inflation needs larger numbers to express
what may well be smaller values...

Here are some of the number-prefixes recommended by the "Conference
Generale des Poids et Mesures" in 1991: unit x N unit/N the number N
deca (da) deci 10
hecto (h) centi 100
kilo (k) milli 1,000
mega (M) micro 1,000,000
giga (G) nano 10 (to the power of) 9
tera (T) pico 10 (to the power of) 12
peta (P) femto 10 (to the power of) 15
exe (E) atto 10 (to the power of) 18
zetta (Z) zepto 10 (to the power of) 21
yotta (Y) yocto 10 (to the power of) 24


Is there a formula for the "-illions"? It depends on which system
you're using, British or American. The n'th "illion" is 106n (British)
or 103n+3 (American).

Here's a table of English words for some of the powers of ten.

name power: UK power: US
ten 1 1
hundred 2 2
thousand 3 3
myriad 4 4
lac or lakh* 5 5
million 6 6
crore* 7 7
milliard 9 -
billion 12 9
trillion 18 12
quadrillion 24 15
decillion 60 33
vigintillion 120 63
centillion 600 303

* adopted by the British in India.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not many people realise there are two systems. The number names are
not well-known, and rarely taught in schools; probably few teachers
know the difference, not having been taught the names themselves.

I think we should stick to the British series as being more logical in
construction. The prefix "bi" means "two"; it is illogical to call 109
a billion when 9 is not divisible by two! A quadrillion, where "quad"
means "four" is equally peculiar when rated as 1015, when 15 does not
divide by 4... I could go on, but will not labour the point.

Now, to get back on topic, if I only had a crore of Scinde Dawks. 8*)

Blair






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On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:57:04 +0000 (UTC), (Jon
Bell) wrote:

In article 9uQ8b.441878$uu5.78689@sccrnsc04,
Jay T. Carrigan wrote:

The 1946 inflation in Hungary can top that. The highest
denomination postage stamp was 5 million adopengos (where
1 adopengo = 2 times 10 to the 21st power), or (hope I get
this right) 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pengos.

At the APS Stampshow in Columbus, Ohio last month I saw an exhibit of the
Hungarian hyperinflation stamps. It featured a cover bearing a single
copy of that 5 million ap stamp. I took a picture of it and am looking at
it right now in another window. The annotation reads:

"THE LARGEST DENOMINATION DEFINITIVE STAMP
EVER ISSUED

LAST DAY OF HYPERINFLATION

With 'Single' usage only two covers are recorded.

[cover]

Stamp in use only 6 days.
(July 26-31, 1946.)

Paid rate 4,800,000 adopengo with overpayment 200,000 ap.
Translated from adopengo to pengo 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Posted on the last day of inflation July 31, 1946. Registered letter to
Austria. U.S. Army censor."

================================================== ==
Jon:

Would it be possible to post a copy of your scan,
somewhere on the web?

Thanks.

Blair


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From: TC
Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 100,000+ UNCENSORED
Newsgroups.
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:39:25 -0400
Subject: Meaning of "mlrd"

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:57:04 +0000 (UTC), (Jon
Bell) wrote:

In article 9uQ8b.441878$uu5.78689@sccrnsc04,
Jay T. Carrigan wrote:

The 1946 inflation in Hungary can top that. The highest
denomination postage stamp was 5 million adopengos (where
1 adopengo = 2 times 10 to the 21st power), or (hope I get
this right) 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pengos.

At the APS Stampshow in Columbus, Ohio last month I saw an exhibit of the
Hungarian hyperinflation stamps. It featured a cover bearing a single
copy of that 5 million ap stamp. I took a picture of it and am looking at
it right now in another window. The annotation reads:

"THE LARGEST DENOMINATION DEFINITIVE STAMP
EVER ISSUED

LAST DAY OF HYPERINFLATION

With 'Single' usage only two covers are recorded.

[cover]

Stamp in use only 6 days.
(July 26-31, 1946.)

Paid rate 4,800,000 adopengo with overpayment 200,000 ap.
Translated from adopengo to pengo 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Posted on the last day of inflation July 31, 1946. Registered letter to
Austria. U.S. Army censor."

================================================== ==
Jon:

Would it be possible to post a copy of your scan,
somewhere on the web?

Thanks.

Blair

If John will e-mail it to me, I'll upload it to my website.

Bob

I think that now I understand where is the problem with all these math's --
it is with our different sources of knowledge.

In my Michel Europa Katalog Ost 1998/99, after the No. 942, it is written :

"adopengö = Steuer-Pengö = 1 Billiarde Pengö" (sorry for those who don't see
the German oe character)

That's why I have calculated with 1 Adopengo = 10**12 (ten at the power of
12) pengos! Actually, correctly it is 10**15, but this isn't so important,
because the big difference against 2 x 10**21 still remains.

If two newer versions of catalogues give another conversion, and the same
one, then hopefully this is correct.

Apparently, the science of adopengös has progressed during the last 4-5
years, and it is much more complicated than the conversion between the
Euro$$ and the Fennec Chips.

Yet another philatelic mystery was finally solved thanks to our RCSD!

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

Victor Manta

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"Jay T. Carrigan" wrote in message
news:WLu9b.464861$YN5.313253@sccrnsc01...
Michel (after no. 942):
"adopengo = Steuer-Pengo = 2 Trilliarden (2x10^21) Pengo"

Magyar Posta- es Illetekbelyeg Katalogus (before no.979):
"1 adopengo = 2 x 10^21 pengo (ketezer trillio pengo)"

So to express 1 adopengo in pengo, write 2 followed by 21 zeros.
To express 5 million adopengo in pengo, write 1 followed by 28 zeros,
i.e. 5x(10^6) x 2x(10^21) = 10x(10^27) = 10^28.

Jay Carrigan change domain to mchsi
www.jaypex.com

In article ,
says...

"Jay T. Carrigan" wrote in message
news:i799b.444873$YN5.300505@sccrnsc01...
snip

Jay Carrigan
P.S. to Victor Manta - You somehow changed my "10 to the 21st
power" into 10^12. 10^21 is correct.

It wasn't somehow, but by the elementary calculation, already presented
earlier:

"I suppose that you speak about the Sc. 784 (Michel 942). Its value seems
to
be 5 Millions Adopengos. Because 1 Adopengo = 10**12 (ten at the power of
12) pengos, then

5 Millions Adopengos = 5 * (10**6) * (10**12) = 5 * 10**18 pengos =

= 5,000,000,000,000,000,000 pengos "

Could you please tell me what is wrong with this calculation, or,
alternatively, how do you came to your estimation of 10**21? TIA.

BTW, I had the impression that you weren't sure about your own result
("(hope I get this right") and, for this reason, I made the calculation.
Anyway, I don't see how can you get the
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pengos of something that starts
with
a "5" and not with a "10". I mean by this the value of the stamp, that is
certainly 5 (!) Millions Adopengos - as long as we speak about the same
Hungary Scott 784 (Michel 942).

Just to mention that your final estimation:
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 seems to be 10**28 and not 10**21.

Victor Manta

From: "Victor Manta"
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:06:34 +0200
Subject: Meaning of "mlrd"

Apparently, the science of adopengös has progressed during the last 4-5
years, and it is much more complicated than the conversion between the
Euro$$ and the Fennec Chips.

This has not been a very fascinating thread, but it has led me to a new and
unnecessary lack of misunderstanding of international currency and
inflationary stamp issues, from which I hope to profit, or not. I have not
read every word, but I have read all of some words, although most of the
posts have nothing at all to do with the situation in Muncie, Indiana. Or,
or that matter, in Trondheim. Depending on your own view of the Universe.

Nevertheless, I might someday have an opportunity to buy a large holding of
rare, unused, once-licked-but-never-used SNA #16xxxviii (that's the variety
with the smelly brown gum with embedded dark chunks of suspicious matter).
The dealer may or may not price the stamps at 10^28^12 adopengös, but might
or might not accept Fennec Chips. I am having trouble figuring out
tomorrow's conversion rate in Canadian dollars. In addition, I am quite
certain. Who can help me? And why? Or not?

boB

--
Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy
evidence of the fact. -- George Elliot
--

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:39:22 -0400, TC wrote:

Now, to get back on topic, if I only had a crore of Scinde Dawks. 8*)

Unbroken, that is... :^)

Tracy Barber

"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...

Nevertheless, I might someday have an opportunity to buy a large holding
of
rare, unused, once-licked-but-never-used SNA #16xxxviii (that's the
variety
with the smelly brown gum with embedded dark chunks of suspicious matter).
The dealer may or may not price the stamps at 10^28^12 adopengös, but
might
or might not accept Fennec Chips. I am having trouble figuring out
tomorrow's conversion rate in Canadian dollars. In addition, I am quite
certain. Who can help me? And why? Or not?

boB

--
Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy
evidence of the fact. -- George Elliot



Bob:


After much scrutiny, I have determined that the answer can be found in Lewis
Carroll's "Jabberwocky," as the aforementioned dark chunks of suspicious
matter are likely either remnants of the Jabberwock or the frumious
Bandersnatch.

The following verse offers particular insight:

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

(Unfortunately, now that I have figured it out, I am totally at a loss to
explain it.)

Then again, if the dark chunks have anything to do with Tracy's cats, my
whole hypothesis will be worth as much as the inverted Jenny "exact
replicas" currently on ebay.

Mike

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:42:18 -0400, "Doug Spade"
wrote:


"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...

Nevertheless, I might someday have an opportunity to buy a large holding
of
rare, unused, once-licked-but-never-used SNA #16xxxviii (that's the
variety
with the smelly brown gum with embedded dark chunks of suspicious matter).
The dealer may or may not price the stamps at 10^28^12 adopengös, but
might
or might not accept Fennec Chips. I am having trouble figuring out
tomorrow's conversion rate in Canadian dollars. In addition, I am quite
certain. Who can help me? And why? Or not?

boB

--
Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy
evidence of the fact. -- George Elliot



Bob:


After much scrutiny, I have determined that the answer can be found in Lewis
Carroll's "Jabberwocky," as the aforementioned dark chunks of suspicious
matter are likely either remnants of the Jabberwock or the frumious
Bandersnatch.

The following verse offers particular insight:

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

(Unfortunately, now that I have figured it out, I am totally at a loss to
explain it.)

Then again, if the dark chunks have anything to do with Tracy's cats, my
whole hypothesis will be worth as much as the inverted Jenny "exact
replicas" currently on ebay.

Ahem. My cats don't have dark chunks. They have light ones. :^P
ttphtpthptpthptptthththtt!

Tracy Barber

In article ,
TC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:57:04 +0000 (UTC), (Jon
Bell) wrote:

At the APS Stampshow in Columbus, Ohio last month I saw an exhibit of the
Hungarian hyperinflation stamps. It featured a cover bearing a single
copy of that 5 million ap stamp. I took a picture of it and am looking at
it right now in another window.

Would it be possible to post a copy of your scan,
somewhere on the web?

Here you a http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/stamps/pengo.jpg

Unfortunately this one turned out a bit fuzzy. It's hard to maintain
proper focus when you're kneeling in front of an exhibit frame without
anything to steady yourself against.

Aside to Jay: Thanks for coming up with the exhibitor's name. I can't
find my copy of the show program. :-(

--
Jon Bell Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA

In article ,
Jon Bell wrote:
In article ,
TC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:57:04 +0000 (UTC), (Jon
Bell) wrote:

At the APS Stampshow in Columbus, Ohio last month I saw an exhibit of the
Hungarian hyperinflation stamps. It featured a cover bearing a single
copy of that 5 million ap stamp. I took a picture of it and am looking at
it right now in another window.

Would it be possible to post a copy of your scan,
somewhere on the web?

Here you a http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/stamps/pengo.jpg

Unfortunately this one turned out a bit fuzzy.

Here's another cover from that exhibit, for which I got a better picture.
This one shows the extremes that people sometimes had to go to, in order
to pay the postage. I made this image bigger (about 400K) to take
advantage of the extra detail.
http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/stamps/pengo2.jpg

--
Jon Bell Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA