Denmark 1961 King Definitive Question

Most of these stamps occur in either non-flourescent ( no u/v
reaction) or flourescent ( very bold Yellow reaction under long wave u/
v ). I have 2 of this ( a 50 o red and a 60 o red) which display a
weak white flourescent reaction under lw uv.

Does this signify that the flourescence has washed off while soaking,
or was there an issue on a whitened paper not deliberately flourescent
to meet postal mechanisation needs?

There are also a couple of the "wavy line" definitives which display
the same characteristics.

The flourescence while weaker than the yellow is quite obvious. The
paper is not noticeably whiter in daylight than the normal, although
there are some whiter non-flourescent papers used.

The Stanley Gibbons specialised does not have any mention of this.

Thanks in advance.

Malcolm

My extensive collection of mint, never hinged Danish stamps shows many
variations of fluorescence. Most Danish stamps glow a very strong
yellow under longwave ultraviolet light. Nonetheless, some also glow
a pale version of yellow, some are also bright white or a mixture half
white and half pale yellow, with a very distinct break in the middle
of the design.

Off-hand, Italy is another country that illustrates wide varieties in
fluorescence during the 1960's and if memory serves me, Sweden has
this fluorescent variety, as well, until this type of yellow
fluorescence was dropped in 1976. These two countries also have
stamps that glow a strong bright yellow and in the case of Italy, some
of their stamps are either fully fluorescent or half fluorescent and
half "dead."

I doubt Stanley Gibbons would illustrate or mention any fluorscent
varieties. Stanley Gibbons states in its catalogs that if the variety
cannot be seen with the naked eye, the editors ignore it.

Better sources would be Facit or AFA. I have a brand new 2008 Facit
Frimarkskatalog Special but I have never found any description of the
fluorescent varieties that both you and I have encountered in previous
editions. AFA may be a better source, but I believe that very
specialized catalog is written entirely in the Danish language. I
would need to purchase a copy and a Danish-English philatelic
dictionary to understand the book's listings.

Mark Alan
Coral Springs, FL

On Mar 14, 6:51 pm, wrote:
My extensive collection of mint, never hinged Danish stamps shows many
variations of fluorescence. Most Danish stamps glow a very strong
yellow under longwave ultraviolet light. Nonetheless, some also glow
a pale version of yellow, some are also bright white or a mixture half
white and half pale yellow, with a very distinct break in the middle
of the design.

Off-hand, Italy is another country that illustrates wide varieties in
fluorescence during the 1960's and if memory serves me, Sweden has
this fluorescent variety, as well, until this type of yellow
fluorescence was dropped in 1976. These two countries also have
stamps that glow a strong bright yellow and in the case of Italy, some
of their stamps are either fully fluorescent or half fluorescent and
half "dead."

I doubt Stanley Gibbons would illustrate or mention any fluorscent
varieties. Stanley Gibbons states in its catalogs that if the variety
cannot be seen with the naked eye, the editors ignore it.

Better sources would be Facit or AFA. I have a brand new 2008 Facit
Frimarkskatalog Special but I have never found any description of the
fluorescent varieties that both you and I have encountered in previous
editions. AFA may be a better source, but I believe that very
specialized catalog is written entirely in the Danish language. I
would need to purchase a copy and a Danish-English philatelic
dictionary to understand the book's listings.

Mark Alan
Coral Springs, FL

One reason that some fluorescent agents were dropped was
that easily migrated (unwanted) to adjacent documents and
stamps.This type of thing happened with Canadian stamps
in the 1960s. It is well documented in Canada Specialized.

The 1960s were an era of great experimentation in phosphor
and fluorescent tagging.

Blair

In a recent message wrote:

My extensive collection of mint, never hinged Danish stamps shows many
variations of fluorescence. Most Danish stamps glow a very strong
yellow under longwave ultraviolet light. Nonetheless, some also glow
a pale version of yellow, some are also bright white or a mixture half
white and half pale yellow, with a very distinct break in the middle
of the design.

Off-hand, Italy is another country that illustrates wide varieties in
fluorescence during the 1960's and if memory serves me, Sweden has
this fluorescent variety, as well, until this type of yellow
fluorescence was dropped in 1976. These two countries also have
stamps that glow a strong bright yellow and in the case of Italy, some
of their stamps are either fully fluorescent or half fluorescent and
half "dead."

I doubt Stanley Gibbons would illustrate or mention any fluorscent
varieties. Stanley Gibbons states in its catalogs that if the variety
cannot be seen with the naked eye, the editors ignore it.

Better sources would be Facit or AFA. I have a brand new 2008 Facit
Frimarkskatalog Special but I have never found any description of the
fluorescent varieties that both you and I have encountered in previous
editions. AFA may be a better source, but I believe that very
specialized catalog is written entirely in the Danish language. I
would need to purchase a copy and a Danish-English philatelic
dictionary to understand the book's listings.

The Italian fluorescent varieties are not even dealt with properly
in the Sassone Specialised Catalogue (Vol 5)

As I have acquired a great deal of material of the period, I am
starting a study of the subject, but the problem is that used stamps
soaked off paper can have altered fluorescence.

The really interesting ones are those that SHOULD be fluorescent,
but were printed on the wrong paper, which is not fluorescent
and has a different type of stars watermark. After years of
searching a collection originating in France had no less
than 4 of these varieties (100 lire Syracuse coin small type,
type 2 stars non fluorescent instead of type 4 stars).

Sassone catalogues this at 100 euro, while CEI catalogues it at
20 euro, which is a bit of a difference!

--
Tony Clayton
Coins of the UK : http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
.... FANATIC: one enthusiastic about something you don't care about.

Another problem could be that some flourescence is "fugitive" under uv
light so prolonged examination under uv light could in fact change the
very thing you are searching for.

Having just bought 2 new uv lamps one sw and 1 lw I am examining all
my duplicate definitives for variations. I have now turned up a whole
series of West German definitives which show both yellow and white
flourescence - so far I have noted the 1966 Brandenburg Gate, 1971
Industrial Safety coil stamps and 1975 Technology series. I am quite
surprised that these variations extend over such a long timespan - one
would expect one series to be yellow, one ( in transition) to be on
both and the final one to be all on white.

However I put forward the following hypothesis ( I do not have enough
technological knowledge to put it forward as a definitive theory ).

You could have a substance in solution which excites a uv reaction at
a certain specific uv wavelength to create a given reaction. You could
have a number of solutions containing this substance which react
differently given what I think is a broader range of wavelengths
present in commercial lamps.

Does anyone have sufficient knowledge of uv technology to shoot down
this hypothesis in flames. My argument is that provided the key
substance is present the formulation of the remainder of the content
will still remain within spec whatever other substances are present.

Malcolm


On Mar 15, 8:17*am, Tony Clayton wrote:
In a recent message wrote:





My extensive collection of mint, never hinged Danish stamps shows many
variations of fluorescence. *Most Danish stamps glow a very strong
yellow under longwave ultraviolet light. *Nonetheless, some also glow
a pale version of yellow, some are also bright white or a mixture half
white and half pale yellow, with a very distinct break in the middle
of the design.

Off-hand, Italy is another country that illustrates wide varieties in
fluorescence during the 1960's and if memory serves me, Sweden has
this fluorescent variety, as well, until this type of yellow
fluorescence was dropped in 1976. *These two countries also have
stamps that glow a strong bright yellow and in the case of Italy, some
of their stamps are either fully fluorescent or half fluorescent and
half "dead."

I doubt Stanley Gibbons would illustrate or mention any fluorscent
varieties. *Stanley Gibbons states in its catalogs that if the variety
cannot be seen with the naked eye, the editors ignore it.

Better sources would be Facit or AFA. *I have a brand new 2008 Facit
Frimarkskatalog Special but I have never found any description of the
fluorescent varieties that both you and I have encountered in previous
editions. *AFA may be a better source, but I believe that very
specialized catalog is written entirely in the Danish language. *I
would need to purchase a copy and a Danish-English philatelic
dictionary to understand the book's listings.

The Italian fluorescent varieties are not even dealt with properly
in the Sassone Specialised Catalogue (Vol 5)

As I have acquired a great deal of material of the period, I am
starting a study of the subject, but the problem is that used stamps
soaked off paper can have altered fluorescence.

The really interesting ones are those that SHOULD be fluorescent,
but were printed on the wrong paper, which is not fluorescent
and has a different type of stars watermark. After years of
searching a collection originating in France had no less
than 4 of these varieties (100 lire Syracuse coin small type,
type 2 stars non fluorescent instead of type 4 stars).

Sassone catalogues this at 100 euro, while CEI catalogues it at
20 euro, which is a bit of a difference!

--
Tony Clayton * * * * *
Coins of the UK * * *:http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... FANATIC: one enthusiastic about something you don't care about.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am glad you mentioned the West German stamps having two types of
tagging, yellow and white. I had purchased two large collections of
West German and West Berlin stamps with a lot of time overlap from
1960-1990. Much to my surprise I found that both collections were
often quite different with tagging and what I thought would be a pile
of leftover stamps actually became a huge specialized collection of
both types of tagging.

Mark Alan
Coral Springs, FL

The fluorescence that was used in Germany in the late fifties was a
substance that was mixed throughout the
paper mass and shows a yellow signal that vanished after removing the
UV-lamp.

The same fluorescence was used in the Netherlands [1962], in France
[1963], in Italy, Danmark, Sweden and a few more countries.

When the stamps lateron got printed on coated paper the fluorescence got
mixed with the substance that the coating was made up of. The very paper
mass didn't have the yellow fluorescemce in the coated paper but had a
white fluorescence - AKA optical brighening agent or OBA. The combined
effect of both types of fluorescence [yellow in the coating, white in the
paper mass] could range from yellowish, orange to greenish depending on
the amount of OBA. The next step was to add OBA to the coating - to make
it looks whiter than white - and the visual result under UV could be a
rather whitish one.

Moistening a stamp with OBA in the coating usually gives the effect of a
mottled or stained yellow. That result also applies to stamps printed on
phosphorescent coated paper. In mint stamps the white is evident, but
after soaking off [or leaving the stamps in the sun] the yellow is
dominating!

In the German case the word 'tagging' is not correct....

groetjes, Rein

Op Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:26:54 +0100 schreef :

I am glad you mentioned the West German stamps having two types of
tagging, yellow and white. I had purchased two large collections of
West German and West Berlin stamps with a lot of time overlap from
1960-1990. Much to my surprise I found that both collections were
often quite different with tagging and what I thought would be a pile
of leftover stamps actually became a huge specialized collection of
both types of tagging.

Mark Alan
Coral Springs, FL




--
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Tagging is a way of applying the luminescent substance on top of the paper
using for stamp printing.

Most catalogues don't bother to explain a thing. Stamp paper nowadays
usually consists of the two layers - the very paper mass and a coating.
Both layers can contain luminescent substances. Or can be without. All
combinations! I.e. OBA in the paper, nothing in the coating; OBA in the
coating, nothing in the mass, etc.

The tagging can be applied before the stamp gets printed or in a later
phase of printing - usually at the very end in the form of bars.

In 1963 the Swiss [and a bit later the Belgian] stamps printed in recess
had uncoated paper with an impregnation of fluorescent fluid applied from
the front of the paper. There is no way of telling it apart from paper
without the fluorescence other than using the UV-lamp.

All this is - as I said - considered too difficult to have collectors
bothered with it - the result is that hardly anyone knows what is going on
when they see a range of different results under the UV-lamp.

I tried to get a systematical approach into the Belgian Stamp dealers
catalogue OCB, but even though my set of paper types was accepted, they
didn't want me to get into details too much

groetjes, Rein


Op Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:06:40 +0100 schreef Rein :

The fluorescence that was used in Germany in the late fifties was a
substance that was mixed throughout the
paper mass and shows a yellow signal that vanished after removing the
UV-lamp.

The same fluorescence was used in the Netherlands [1962], in France
[1963], in Italy, Danmark, Sweden and a few more countries.

When the stamps lateron got printed on coated paper the fluorescence got
mixed with the substance that the coating was made up of. The very paper
mass didn't have the yellow fluorescemce in the coated paper but had a
white fluorescence - AKA optical brighening agent or OBA. The combined
effect of both types of fluorescence [yellow in the coating, white in
the paper mass] could range from yellowish, orange to greenish depending
on the amount of OBA. The next step was to add OBA to the coating - to
make it looks whiter than white - and the visual result under UV could
be a rather whitish one.

Moistening a stamp with OBA in the coating usually gives the effect of a
mottled or stained yellow. That result also applies to stamps printed on
phosphorescent coated paper. In mint stamps the white is evident, but
after soaking off [or leaving the stamps in the sun] the yellow is
dominating!

In the German case the word 'tagging' is not correct....

groetjes, Rein

Op Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:26:54 +0100 schreef :

I am glad you mentioned the West German stamps having two types of
tagging, yellow and white. I had purchased two large collections of
West German and West Berlin stamps with a lot of time overlap from
1960-1990. Much to my surprise I found that both collections were
often quite different with tagging and what I thought would be a pile
of leftover stamps actually became a huge specialized collection of
both types of tagging.

Mark Alan
Coral Springs, FL







--
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Rein wrote:
Tagging is a way of applying the luminescent substance on top of the
paper using for stamp printing.

Most catalogues don't bother to explain a thing. Stamp paper nowadays
usually consists of the two layers - the very paper mass and a coating.
Both layers can contain luminescent substances. Or can be without. All
combinations! I.e. OBA in the paper, nothing in the coating; OBA in the
coating, nothing in the mass, etc.

The tagging can be applied before the stamp gets printed or in a later
phase of printing - usually at the very end in the form of bars.

In 1963 the Swiss [and a bit later the Belgian] stamps printed in
recess had uncoated paper with an impregnation of fluorescent fluid
applied from the front of the paper. There is no way of telling it apart
from paper without the fluorescence other than using the UV-lamp.

All this is - as I said - considered too difficult to have collectors
bothered with it - the result is that hardly anyone knows what is going
on when they see a range of different results under the UV-lamp.

I tried to get a systematical approach into the Belgian Stamp dealers
catalogue OCB, but even though my set of paper types was accepted, they
didn't want me to get into details too much

In the Unitrade specialized catalogue for Canadian stamps, paper
fluorescence is quite important. There is a chart showing the 7
different grades of fluorescence and examples, where possible, from the
8 different paper manufacturers where a stamp is printed solely on that
paper with that level of fluorescence. On the Centennial definitives,
it can get to be quite a mess - all these different grades of
fluorescence, 3 different chemical makeups for the tagging, different
perforations, even fluorescent ink on one of the values. And as I
recall, the Darnell catalogue even shows some paper varieties missing in
the Unitrade, dealing with the level of fluorescence on the back of the
stamp (commemorative stamps from the '70s, mostly).

Ryan

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:42:30 +0100, Rein wrote:

Tagging is a way of applying the luminescent substance on top of the paper
using for stamp printing.

Most catalogues don't bother to explain a thing. Stamp paper nowadays
usually consists of the two layers - the very paper mass and a coating.
Both layers can contain luminescent substances. Or can be without. All
combinations! I.e. OBA in the paper, nothing in the coating; OBA in the
coating, nothing in the mass, etc.

The tagging can be applied before the stamp gets printed or in a later
phase of printing - usually at the very end in the form of bars.

In 1963 the Swiss [and a bit later the Belgian] stamps printed in recess
had uncoated paper with an impregnation of fluorescent fluid applied from
the front of the paper. There is no way of telling it apart from paper
without the fluorescence other than using the UV-lamp.

All this is - as I said - considered too difficult to have collectors
bothered with it - the result is that hardly anyone knows what is going on
when they see a range of different results under the UV-lamp.

I tried to get a systematical approach into the Belgian Stamp dealers
catalogue OCB, but even though my set of paper types was accepted, they
didn't want me to get into details too much

Care to share them with us unwashed collectors that could use that
info, or is it proprietary? :^)