Gold prices plummet!

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
Bruce Remick wrote:
"George D" wrote in message
...



snipped

As the documents change daily I know not how to do that and even if I
could find the most current of them I am not sufficiently
knowledgeable to be able to understand what they say and than
determine what the real effect will be if enacted. Damn even those
voting on them don't read them as you mention in your last sentence.

FWIW I do not listen to Limbaugh and the sources are from both
right wing and left wing news. My home pages are azcentral, BBC, and
Foxnews anything else would only cause me to become more confused.

I only know that anytime the US government or any other government or
quasi government gets started on anything they must grow or die.
This is true from your labor union, HOA, city, state, federal, fire,
or other group.

If the current bills pass into law it will only be the beginning of
a long down hill battle of more freedoms lost. One only needs to
look at what we had 40 or 50 years ago and where we are now to know
what a slippery slope we are on and as the years pass how much
faster we are slipping. You are a teacher of history so you must
know what we have lost in freedoms during this period. Many of the
laws could be considered for our own best interest BUT every one of
them reduces our ability to function independently. We are being
taught to let big brother take care of us and not learn to look out
for ourselves.

I was in college 50 years ago. The only freedoms I have lost since
that time, other than the freedom to be drafted, have been things
like checking in at an airport, walking out the door on the tarmack
to navigate a flight of stairs to my flight, and then lighting up a
smoke. Now we have to get to airport a couple hours early so our
selves and belongings can be searched. And smoke? Forgetaboutit. I
miss our old freedom there, but then we all have to go through the
same thing. Any other "freedoms" I might have lost in the past 50
years are equally as trivial and have little to do with our
government, per se. Which freedoms were you thinking of?

I consider it as having gained a freedom with the smoking-in-public-places
ban. No longer do I have to endure the discomfort and danger of asthma
from breathing secondary smoke or smelling like a chimney when I leave a
restaurant.

James the Nicotine-Addicted

I appreciate your concerns and have no doubt that you are in the majority.
My example was more for emphasis on how the activities (freedoms?) we took
for granted fifty years ago have changed over the past 50 years, in this
case through education and attitude. Maybe the example I cited better
illustrates how intolerant we have become against anything that displeases
or threatens us in any way. Nonsmokers once apparently relied on government
to do something about yucky smoke so they tolerated it and went on with
their lives until the govt finally acted. Today, people have no qualms
about speaking out against the slightest thing or perceived injustice that
irritates them, often with a successful result.

Mr. Jaggers wrote:
Bruce Remick wrote:
"George D" wrote in message
...



snipped
As the documents change daily I know not how to do that and even if I
could find the most current of them I am not sufficiently
knowledgeable to be able to understand what they say and than
determine what the real effect will be if enacted. Damn even those
voting on them don't read them as you mention in your last sentence.

FWIW I do not listen to Limbaugh and the sources are from both
right wing and left wing news. My home pages are azcentral, BBC, and
Foxnews anything else would only cause me to become more confused.

I only know that anytime the US government or any other government or
quasi government gets started on anything they must grow or die.
This is true from your labor union, HOA, city, state, federal, fire,
or other group.

If the current bills pass into law it will only be the beginning of
a long down hill battle of more freedoms lost. One only needs to
look at what we had 40 or 50 years ago and where we are now to know
what a slippery slope we are on and as the years pass how much
faster we are slipping. You are a teacher of history so you must
know what we have lost in freedoms during this period. Many of the
laws could be considered for our own best interest BUT every one of
them reduces our ability to function independently. We are being
taught to let big brother take care of us and not learn to look out
for ourselves.
I was in college 50 years ago. The only freedoms I have lost since
that time, other than the freedom to be drafted, have been things
like checking in at an airport, walking out the door on the tarmack
to navigate a flight of stairs to my flight, and then lighting up a
smoke. Now we have to get to airport a couple hours early so our
selves and belongings can be searched. And smoke? Forgetaboutit. I
miss our old freedom there, but then we all have to go through the
same thing. Any other "freedoms" I might have lost in the past 50
years are equally as trivial and have little to do with our
government, per se. Which freedoms were you thinking of?

I consider it as having gained a freedom with the smoking-in-public-places
ban. No longer do I have to endure the discomfort and danger of asthma from
breathing secondary smoke or smelling like a chimney when I leave a
restaurant.

James the Nicotine-Addicted



I am a smoker and I understand that some people don't want smoking near
them but in city parks?????


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ng0527-ON.html

I also believe a restaurant should be able to run its affairs with out
government interference. Let the market prevail if people don't want
smoking in the restaurant don't eat there. Non smoking areas or rooms
should be allowed for any business owner... We have been smoking on this
earth for a very long time and these laws are definitely a loss of
freedoms, both for the smokers and the owners of the business.

http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html



--
Government is a voracious monster that must have your labor to control
YOU! Your money is your liberty. The taxes you pay gently enslave you,
and eventually destroy any human liberty you have. Fear government, pray
for the country.

George D wrote:
Mr. Jaggers wrote:
Bruce Remick wrote:
"George D" wrote in message
...



snipped
As the documents change daily I know not how to do that and even
if I could find the most current of them I am not sufficiently
knowledgeable to be able to understand what they say and than
determine what the real effect will be if enacted. Damn even those
voting on them don't read them as you mention in your last
sentence. FWIW I do not listen to Limbaugh and the sources are from
both
right wing and left wing news. My home pages are azcentral, BBC,
and Foxnews anything else would only cause me to become more
confused. I only know that anytime the US government or any other
government
or quasi government gets started on anything they must grow or die.
This is true from your labor union, HOA, city, state, federal,
fire, or other group.

If the current bills pass into law it will only be the beginning of
a long down hill battle of more freedoms lost. One only needs to
look at what we had 40 or 50 years ago and where we are now to know
what a slippery slope we are on and as the years pass how much
faster we are slipping. You are a teacher of history so you must
know what we have lost in freedoms during this period. Many of the
laws could be considered for our own best interest BUT every one of
them reduces our ability to function independently. We are being
taught to let big brother take care of us and not learn to look out
for ourselves.
I was in college 50 years ago. The only freedoms I have lost since
that time, other than the freedom to be drafted, have been things
like checking in at an airport, walking out the door on the tarmack
to navigate a flight of stairs to my flight, and then lighting up a
smoke. Now we have to get to airport a couple hours early so our
selves and belongings can be searched. And smoke? Forgetaboutit. I
miss our old freedom there, but then we all have to go through the
same thing. Any other "freedoms" I might have lost in the past 50
years are equally as trivial and have little to do with our
government, per se. Which freedoms were you thinking of?

I consider it as having gained a freedom with the
smoking-in-public-places ban. No longer do I have to endure the
discomfort and danger of asthma from breathing secondary smoke or
smelling like a chimney when I leave a restaurant.

James the Nicotine-Addicted



I am a smoker and I understand that some people don't want smoking
near them but in city parks?????


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ng0527-ON.html

I also believe a restaurant should be able to run its affairs with out
government interference. Let the market prevail if people don't want
smoking in the restaurant don't eat there. Non smoking areas or rooms
should be allowed for any business owner... We have been smoking on
this earth for a very long time and these laws are definitely a loss
of freedoms, both for the smokers and the owners of the business.

http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html

George, I'm prepared to make you a deal!

We'll meet at a restaurant of your choice and sit at adjoining tables. I
will be bringing with me a large bucket of fresh pig manure with a stir
stick and you may bring the cigarette brand of your choice, even if your
choice happens to be Gauloises. As you enjoy your smoke, I will stir the
manure at regular intervals for your dining and dancing pleasure. The only
requirements are that we both eat everything on our plates and tip the
server appropriately.

James the Farmerboy

George D wrote:
Mr. Jaggers wrote:
George D wrote:
Mr. Jaggers wrote:

The "beginning" of a downhill battle? We've been at this now for
220 years! That said, I am at a loss to even start a list of
freedoms that we have lost over the past 50 years. Perhaps you can
help me out here, sometimes I miss things.

Lets start here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

While I agree that the Patriot Act has been foisted on us by
strutting and preening politicians desperate to keep from appearing
unpatriotic (and therefore un-re-electable) and unsympathetic to the
tragedy of 9-11 (and therefore un-re-electable), it is essentially a
rehash of the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, using the technology
of the 21st century, so I don't see anything new under the sun here.

James the Anti-Terrorist



I assume you have read 1984. If you forecast the implications of this
act than you get to the opening of 1984 and the assumption that if you
are doing nothing wrong than you have nothing to fear. BS I say......

I did read the novel close to half a century ago, and have always considered
it one of the most overrated books ever written. Its most memorable feature
is the "Two Minutes Hate", which today we see made manifest and expanded now
into a daily "Three Hours' Hate", courtesy of certain media talkers that
shall remain nameless. It is slowly eating away at the core of American
society and will bring about its painful death as surely as would any enemy
from without. If Bin Laden is still alive, he is no doubt rubbing his hands
together in glee and chuckling to himself as from afar he watches us lining
up on two sides, hating each others' guts, just as our forbears did in the
1850s.

I know not what the the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, and I am not
going to research it and find out what it says or how many times it
has been used in a court of law in the last 100 years or so....

Suit yourself. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat
it."

James the Big Brother

Mr. Jaggers wrote:
George D wrote:
Mr. Jaggers wrote:
Bruce Remick wrote:
"George D" wrote in message
...



snipped
As the documents change daily I know not how to do that and even
if I could find the most current of them I am not sufficiently
knowledgeable to be able to understand what they say and than
determine what the real effect will be if enacted. Damn even those
voting on them don't read them as you mention in your last
sentence. FWIW I do not listen to Limbaugh and the sources are from
both
right wing and left wing news. My home pages are azcentral, BBC,
and Foxnews anything else would only cause me to become more
confused. I only know that anytime the US government or any other
government
or quasi government gets started on anything they must grow or die.
This is true from your labor union, HOA, city, state, federal,
fire, or other group.

If the current bills pass into law it will only be the beginning of
a long down hill battle of more freedoms lost. One only needs to
look at what we had 40 or 50 years ago and where we are now to know
what a slippery slope we are on and as the years pass how much
faster we are slipping. You are a teacher of history so you must
know what we have lost in freedoms during this period. Many of the
laws could be considered for our own best interest BUT every one of
them reduces our ability to function independently. We are being
taught to let big brother take care of us and not learn to look out
for ourselves.
I was in college 50 years ago. The only freedoms I have lost since
that time, other than the freedom to be drafted, have been things
like checking in at an airport, walking out the door on the tarmack
to navigate a flight of stairs to my flight, and then lighting up a
smoke. Now we have to get to airport a couple hours early so our
selves and belongings can be searched. And smoke? Forgetaboutit. I
miss our old freedom there, but then we all have to go through the
same thing. Any other "freedoms" I might have lost in the past 50
years are equally as trivial and have little to do with our
government, per se. Which freedoms were you thinking of?
I consider it as having gained a freedom with the
smoking-in-public-places ban. No longer do I have to endure the
discomfort and danger of asthma from breathing secondary smoke or
smelling like a chimney when I leave a restaurant.

James the Nicotine-Addicted


I am a smoker and I understand that some people don't want smoking
near them but in city parks?????


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ng0527-ON.html

I also believe a restaurant should be able to run its affairs with out
government interference. Let the market prevail if people don't want
smoking in the restaurant don't eat there. Non smoking areas or rooms
should be allowed for any business owner... We have been smoking on
this earth for a very long time and these laws are definitely a loss
of freedoms, both for the smokers and the owners of the business.

http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html

George, I'm prepared to make you a deal!

We'll meet at a restaurant of your choice and sit at adjoining tables. I
will be bringing with me a large bucket of fresh pig manure with a stir
stick and you may bring the cigarette brand of your choice, even if your
choice happens to be Gauloises. As you enjoy your smoke, I will stir the
manure at regular intervals for your dining and dancing pleasure. The only
requirements are that we both eat everything on our plates and tip the
server appropriately.

James the Farmerboy



I did not say I would smoke in your smoke free restaurant I have a
choice not to eat in your farmerboy restaurant and you should have a
choice not to eat in my smokers restaurant, except here in AZ you don't
have that choice as there are no restaurants with smoking allowed
inside. But my 2nd amendment rights have been slightly restored as I can
now carry in a establishment that serves booze if I have a CW permit.

George

--
Government is a voracious monster that must have your labor to control
YOU! Your money is your liberty. The taxes you pay gently enslave you,
and eventually destroy any human liberty you have. Fear government, pray
for the country.

"George D" wrote in message
...

I am a smoker and I understand that some people don't want smoking near them
but in city parks?????

As I citizen I want to be free to enjoy a park without smelling someone's
stinking carcinogenic tobacco smoke.
You want to smoke? Go home, go in your car but don't expose others to a proven
health risk.

Mr. Jaggers wrote:
George D wrote:
Mr. Jaggers wrote:

The "beginning" of a downhill battle? We've been at this now for
220 years! That said, I am at a loss to even start a list of
freedoms that we have lost over the past 50 years. Perhaps you can
help me out here, sometimes I miss things.

Lets start here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

While I agree that the Patriot Act has been foisted on us by strutting and
preening politicians desperate to keep from appearing unpatriotic (and
therefore un-re-electable) and unsympathetic to the tragedy of 9-11 (and
therefore un-re-electable), it is essentially a rehash of the Alien and
Sedition Acts of 1798, using the technology of the 21st century, so I don't
see anything new under the sun here.

James the Anti-Terrorist


OK so I looked it up...

Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of
the United States of America in Congress assembled,In case of war, or
actual threatened invasion, the President shall make a proclamation.
That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States
and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory
incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the
territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government, and
the President of the United States shall make public proclamation of the
event,Act of July 6, 1812, ch. 130. all natives, citizens, denizens, or
subjects of the hostile nation or government, being males of the age of
fourteen years and upwards, who shall be within the United States, and

Notice the 3rd line that says "declared war"

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United...ion/Chapter_66

George

--
Government is a voracious monster that must have your labor to control
YOU! Your money is your liberty. The taxes you pay gently enslave you,
and eventually destroy any human liberty you have. Fear government, pray
for the country.

The Giant Brain wrote:
"George D" wrote in message
...

I am a smoker and I understand that some people don't want smoking near them
but in city parks?????

As I citizen I want to be free to enjoy a park without smelling someone's
stinking carcinogenic tobacco smoke.
You want to smoke? Go home, go in your car but don't expose others to a proven
health risk.



Documentation on the second hand smoke being a proven health risk in a
city park or any unenclosed area.

George

--
Government is a voracious monster that must have your labor to control
YOU! Your money is your liberty. The taxes you pay gently enslave you,
and eventually destroy any human liberty you have. Fear government, pray
for the country.

George D wrote:
Mr. Jaggers wrote:
George D wrote:
Mr. Jaggers wrote:
Bruce Remick wrote:
"George D" wrote in message
...



snipped
As the documents change daily I know not how to do that and even
if I could find the most current of them I am not sufficiently
knowledgeable to be able to understand what they say and than
determine what the real effect will be if enacted. Damn even
those voting on them don't read them as you mention in your last
sentence. FWIW I do not listen to Limbaugh and the sources are
from both
right wing and left wing news. My home pages are azcentral, BBC,
and Foxnews anything else would only cause me to become more
confused. I only know that anytime the US government or any other
government
or quasi government gets started on anything they must grow or
die. This is true from your labor union, HOA, city, state,
federal, fire, or other group.

If the current bills pass into law it will only be the beginning
of a long down hill battle of more freedoms lost. One only needs
to look at what we had 40 or 50 years ago and where we are now
to know what a slippery slope we are on and as the years pass
how much faster we are slipping. You are a teacher of history so
you must know what we have lost in freedoms during this period.
Many of the laws could be considered for our own best interest
BUT every one of them reduces our ability to function
independently. We are being taught to let big brother take care
of us and not learn to look out for ourselves.
I was in college 50 years ago. The only freedoms I have lost
since that time, other than the freedom to be drafted, have been
things like checking in at an airport, walking out the door on
the tarmack to navigate a flight of stairs to my flight, and then
lighting up a smoke. Now we have to get to airport a couple
hours early so our selves and belongings can be searched. And
smoke? Forgetaboutit. I miss our old freedom there, but then we
all have to go through the same thing. Any other "freedoms" I
might have lost in the past 50 years are equally as trivial and
have little to do with our government, per se. Which freedoms
were you thinking of?
I consider it as having gained a freedom with the
smoking-in-public-places ban. No longer do I have to endure the
discomfort and danger of asthma from breathing secondary smoke or
smelling like a chimney when I leave a restaurant.

James the Nicotine-Addicted


I am a smoker and I understand that some people don't want smoking
near them but in city parks?????


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ng0527-ON.html

I also believe a restaurant should be able to run its affairs with
out government interference. Let the market prevail if people don't
want smoking in the restaurant don't eat there. Non smoking areas
or rooms should be allowed for any business owner... We have been
smoking on this earth for a very long time and these laws are
definitely a loss of freedoms, both for the smokers and the owners
of the business. http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html

George, I'm prepared to make you a deal!

We'll meet at a restaurant of your choice and sit at adjoining
tables. I will be bringing with me a large bucket of fresh pig
manure with a stir stick and you may bring the cigarette brand of
your choice, even if your choice happens to be Gauloises. As you
enjoy your smoke, I will stir the manure at regular intervals for
your dining and dancing pleasure. The only requirements are that we
both eat everything on our plates and tip the server appropriately.

James the Farmerboy



I did not say I would smoke in your smoke free restaurant I have a
choice not to eat in your farmerboy restaurant and you should have a
choice not to eat in my smokers restaurant, except here in AZ you
don't have that choice as there are no restaurants with smoking
allowed inside. But my 2nd amendment rights have been slightly
restored as I can now carry in a establishment that serves booze if I
have a CW permit.

When there is only one person on the planet, no rights are abridged. The
moment there are two, rights will be abridged. Each additional person
causes an increase in that abridgement. As our nation's population has
grown from 4 million to 300 million in just 220 years, rights are
necessarily abridged even more. The alternative is chaos and ultimately a
total breakdown of society. The Founding Fathers were absolutely brilliant
in their decision to create a judicial branch to cause our unchanging and
timeless Constitution to continue to be fresh and appropriate in the light
of an ever-increasing population and an ever-changing society.

James the Changer with the Times

The Giant Brain wrote:
"George D" wrote in message
...

I am a smoker and I understand that some people don't want smoking
near them but in city parks?????

As I citizen I want to be free to enjoy a park without smelling
someone's stinking carcinogenic tobacco smoke.
You want to smoke? Go home, go in your car but don't expose others to
a proven health risk.

Just the other day I was in the drive-up at Mickie D's and the driver of the
car ahead of me was smoking with her window down. The breeze was such that
I got the full monte in my lungs as if I were sitting in the car with her.
Pew!

James the Gagger