(First Edition) Sequence of Printing numbers (and/or letters)

Is it possible that John or Francis or Paghat or any of the
other distinguished contributors to the rec.collecting.books
forum can simplify the matter of print-run numbers and letters
regarding all or most questions of determining authentic first
editions?

Yes, I realize there are all sorts of websites which attempt
this. Perhaps I may be visiting the wrong sites, but I have
found the "explanations" -- putting it as politely as
possible -- annoyingly skimpy here and dauntingly nebulous
there.

Furthermore, when inquiring into the matter at bookshops,
I have received contradictory information from used and
rare book dealers.

One insisted: "If a book says 'First Edition' and has a
sequence of numbers or letters beginning with a '1' or
sometimes an 'A' at the LEFT, it is likely a first edition,
except with Random House, which begins the sequence with a
'2'."

That sounds simple enough. Unfortunately, another dealer
snorts that the statement above is "hooey." The second
dealer insists: "The '1' or the 'A' does not have to
be at the left at all. If the book says 'First Edition'
and has a '1' or an 'A' (not counting '10's" and double
'A's", of course) ANYPLACE in the print-sequence line,
then the book is a first edition."

Who is right? Or are they both wrong?

Is it possible that any reader can either a) refer me
to a non-nebulous website which clarifies print-sequence
numbers or letters with relation to first editions and
does so succinctly or b) is there any reader who can post
approximately one screen of information clarifying the
matter, perhaps in an explanation which would answer
the question regarding most books where publishers use
print-run numbers or letters, though there are usually
odd exceptions to everything, so I would not anticipate
a posted response which would help in one-hundred percent
of the cases.


Mr. Palmer
Room 314

Is it possible that John or Francis or Paghat or any of the
other distinguished contributors to the rec.collecting.books
forum can simplify the matter of print-run numbers and letters
regarding all or most questions of determining authentic first
editions?

Go to www.mcbridepublisher.com and order "A Pocket Guide to the Identification
of First Editions." There are too many variations among first identifiers,
sometimes even with the same publisher. You won't regret the money spent.
Les

Hi Bill,

Even with the post-1978 attempt at rendering the information consistent and
intelligent, publishers have found ways to make matters obscure.

The peculiarities of Random House you have mentioned. Number order is not
relevant. The presence or absence of a "1" is more important than its
placement. I walked through my library this evening, pulling books at random
from various publishers. One thing I noticed is that the use of letters, e.g.,
"A" instead of "1", seems to be very much diminished. I agree with the comment
from "Book Editions" that methods vary even within a publishing house - and that
sometimes (a) because methods differ for types of books (fiction, history, etc)
and (b) because over the course of a period of time the publisher has refined
its method.

I pulled a few books from various publishers for comment.

Knopf. (Sample is Original Sin by P.D. James (1995)) All it says is "First
American Edition". No number line at all.

Harper Collins. (Sample is Daughter of Fortune by Isabel Allende (1999)). It
has the following number line:
00 01 02 03 [logo] 10 9 8 7 6
signifying a sixth printing made in year 2000. Note that the "1" if it were
there would be on the far right.

Viking. (Sample is Lake Wobegon Days by Garrison Keillor (1985)) . The
copyright page states "Seventh Printing October 1985". No number line. Note an
interesting detail on the dust jacket. In the lower right corner of the front
end flap there is the designation "09173085" which I believe must be
decipherable to indicate printing information.

Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. (Sample is A Case of Curiosities by Allen Kurzweil
(1992)). The copyright page reads (two lines):
First Edition
B C D E
That is directly in contrast to Random House. Whereas this sort of designation
at RH would guarantee you a first printing, here it means only a second printing.

The only conclusion is that even now, after such a push to standardize, only
minimal consistency has been achieved. I myself long for information about
number of copies per printing. Pantheon used to provide this information, e.g.,
Doctor Zhivago by Boris Pasternak. Then there were publishers that told you how
many printings in each month, so you knew what month your copy was printed in -
e.g., Macmillan, Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell. So we seem to have
lost information at the same time we have gained some.


Francis A. Miniter


Bill Palmer wrote:

Is it possible that John or Francis or Paghat or any of the
other distinguished contributors to the rec.collecting.books
forum can simplify the matter of print-run numbers and letters
regarding all or most questions of determining authentic first
editions?

Yes, I realize there are all sorts of websites which attempt
this. Perhaps I may be visiting the wrong sites, but I have
found the "explanations" -- putting it as politely as
possible -- annoyingly skimpy here and dauntingly nebulous
there.

Furthermore, when inquiring into the matter at bookshops,
I have received contradictory information from used and
rare book dealers.

One insisted: "If a book says 'First Edition' and has a
sequence of numbers or letters beginning with a '1' or
sometimes an 'A' at the LEFT, it is likely a first edition,
except with Random House, which begins the sequence with a
'2'."

That sounds simple enough. Unfortunately, another dealer
snorts that the statement above is "hooey." The second
dealer insists: "The '1' or the 'A' does not have to
be at the left at all. If the book says 'First Edition'
and has a '1' or an 'A' (not counting '10's" and double
'A's", of course) ANYPLACE in the print-sequence line,
then the book is a first edition."

Who is right? Or are they both wrong?

Is it possible that any reader can either a) refer me
to a non-nebulous website which clarifies print-sequence
numbers or letters with relation to first editions and
does so succinctly or b) is there any reader who can post
approximately one screen of information clarifying the
matter, perhaps in an explanation which would answer
the question regarding most books where publishers use
print-run numbers or letters, though there are usually
odd exceptions to everything, so I would not anticipate
a posted response which would help in one-hundred percent
of the cases.


Mr. Palmer
Room 314

Francis A. Miniter wrote (and I snipped a bunch)

Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. (Sample is A Case of Curiosities by Allen Kurzweil
(1992)). The copyright page reads (two lines):
First Edition
B C D E
That is directly in contrast to Random House. Whereas this sort of designation
at RH would guarantee you a first printing, here it means only a second printing.

I think in 1992 HBJ was still using "B C D E" on its first printings
although, IIRC, it subsequently went to "A B C D" (with the First
Edition statement). So, this particular book should be a first.

Jon, comment?

"ann greenfield" wrote...
Francis A. Miniter wrote (and I snipped a bunch)

Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. (Sample is A Case of Curiosities by Allen
Kurzweil
(1992)). The copyright page reads (two lines):
First Edition
B C D E
That is directly in contrast to Random House. Whereas this sort of
designation
at RH would guarantee you a first printing, here it means only a second
printing.

I think in 1992 HBJ was still using "B C D E" on its first printings
although, IIRC, it subsequently went to "A B C D" (with the First
Edition statement). So, this particular book should be a first.

Jon, comment?

I have a FP of the Kurzweil book, and there's an A in the line.

The HBJ change from B lines to A lines, which was very inconsistent, took
place about 10 years earlier. Harcourt Brace/HBJ is one publisher for which
McBride is singularly unhelpful--mostly because HB/HBJ was all over the
board: Sometimes A lines, sometimes B; sometimes the FE slug was removed for
later printings, sometimes it stayed. To ID the first printing of any title
before the early '90s--by which time *only* A lines were used--it's best to
know the characteristics of the particular book, although the presence of
the FE statement is *generally* a reliable indicator on these earlier books.


--
Jon Meyers
(To reply, lose
your way)

Newbie here. I have started collecting Dick Francis hardbacks, any edition,
signed or not, but preferably from the UK. I recently purchased 4 from
people on Ebay who claimed they were first editions. Knowing I was taking
my chances, I bid on them and won. When they arrived, the copyright info
said,

First published in Great Britain 1996
Copyright (c) Dick Francis 1996

with the year varying by book.

There is no line of numbers and no clear-cut "First Edition" notation. I
emailed someone at Penguin's US offices, and the answer was vague, but
mostly negative. Since the publisher kindly included mailing addresses for
several locations (UK, US, AUS, NZ), I'm seriously considering sending a
photocopy of the page and the dustjacket along with a letter asking for an
explanation.In the future, I'd like to be able to ask the Ebay sellers for a
scan of this page to determine the accuracy of their claim.

Has anyone ever tried this approach?

Can anyone offer any insights on these particular books given the
information I've included here?

Mamie K. Anding

"Mamie K. Anding" wrote in message .com...
Newbie here. I have started collecting Dick Francis hardbacks, any edition,
signed or not, but preferably from the UK. I recently purchased 4 from
people on Ebay who claimed they were first editions. Knowing I was taking
my chances, I bid on them and won. When they arrived, the copyright info
said,

First published in Great Britain 1996
Copyright (c) Dick Francis 1996

with the year varying by book.

There is no line of numbers and no clear-cut "First Edition" notation. I
emailed someone at Penguin's US offices, and the answer was vague, but
mostly negative. Since the publisher kindly included mailing addresses for
several locations (UK, US, AUS, NZ), I'm seriously considering sending a
photocopy of the page and the dustjacket along with a letter asking for an
explanation.In the future, I'd like to be able to ask the Ebay sellers for a
scan of this page to determine the accuracy of their claim.

Has anyone ever tried this approach?

Can anyone offer any insights on these particular books given the
information I've included here?

Mamie K. Anding

According to McBride, Penguin books published in the UK use "Published
in Great Britain and year" with no other indication of printings to
designate a first edition. It appears the books you have are a first
edition. Alternately, they may use the phrase, "First Published
(year)" with a number sequence.

Art Layton
Stamford CT