Problem with Seeburg M100C record return

My Seeburg M100C jukebox fails to transfer the last record played in a
selection back to its magazine. It transfers records smoothly fine
between selected plays, so the problem is only with the last record.
After playing the last record, the tone arm seems to not completely
retract and the turntable stops spinning. I am able to transfer the
record back to its magazine position by manually hold down the scan
switch.

It seems like the trip solenoid is working fine since the jukebox is
able to trip from scan to play and from play to scan. It is only when
there are no more records selected to be played that I have a problem.
Maybe the culprit is the trip switch, but am not entirely sure if I am
correct. I have both the service and the troubleshooting manual. Can
anyone give me some direction in correcting this problem?

There is nothing wrong with your receiver; do not try to adjust the picture
...

Seriously, though, this is how Seeburg jukeboxes with mechanical selector
systems operate. The record will return part-way to the magazine before the
main drive motor shuts down.

There is a switch on the upper switch stack (in front of the trip solenoid)
called the carry-over switch. It's sole purpose in life is to keep the main
drive motor turning after the last selection has been cancelled (since the
selector pins that engage the play control relay get reset as the record is
loaded into the play position). You can tweak the adjustment of the
carry-over switch to get the record further into the magazine, but if you
tweak too far the mechanism may actually shift back into play mode.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

In article . com, "Murph"
wrote:
My Seeburg M100C jukebox fails to transfer the last record played in a
selection back to its magazine. It transfers records smoothly fine
between selected plays, so the problem is only with the last record.
After playing the last record, the tone arm seems to not completely
retract and the turntable stops spinning. I am able to transfer the
record back to its magazine position by manually hold down the scan
switch.

It seems like the trip solenoid is working fine since the jukebox is
able to trip from scan to play and from play to scan. It is only when
there are no more records selected to be played that I have a problem.
Maybe the culprit is the trip switch, but am not entirely sure if I am
correct. I have both the service and the troubleshooting manual. Can
anyone give me some direction in correcting this problem?

Thank you for your help. I am sure you are right. I located the
Carry-over Switch on my jukebox and did everything according to the
service manual except for actually adjusting the gap. It looks like
contact D (blades 12 and 13) which controls the Carry-over Switch has a
much bigger gap than it is supposed to. Problem is, I am not sure
exactly how I am to adjust the gap. I don't want to do the wrong thing
and mess it up more.

The early 50's models of Seeburgs all stop with the record half way into the
rack. It's normal for them. When Seeburg changed the selection memory system
from the pin system over to the tormat system the controls for the mechanism
also changed to fully return the records before it shut off.

It's normal for a "C" to work this way. Learn to appreciate the way it was
designed to work and don't mess with it. Attempting to make it do something
that it wasn't intended to do will surely create problems.

--
Charley


"Murph" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thank you for your help. I am sure you are right. I located the
Carry-over Switch on my jukebox and did everything according to the
service manual except for actually adjusting the gap. It looks like
contact D (blades 12 and 13) which controls the Carry-over Switch has a
much bigger gap than it is supposed to. Problem is, I am not sure
exactly how I am to adjust the gap. I don't want to do the wrong thing
and mess it up more.

That can't be correct. The record doesn't move off of the turntable.
Even putting another coin into the jukebox doesn't work. The only way
to continue play is to use the manual scan to put the record back into
the magazine.

When the last selection has finished playing, the selection pin in the
memory is reset (this is what was keeping the motor running) and the motor
shuts off. When it coasts to a stop, the last played record is midway -
halfway into the rack. When you make another selection on the keyboard the
selection pin in the memory for that selection will be moved into the play
position making contact with the buss rail and the motor will start up
again. The motor now running finishes putting the last played record back
into the rack and then the clutch shifts to scan and the mechanism begins
seeking the memory pin or pins that have been activated for the new
selection(s). Each time it finds an activated pin in the memory it will stop
scanning, play that record, and then reset the memory pin. When it has found
and played the last selection and reset it's memory pin the motor will again
stop with the record half way into the rack. Dropping a coin into the slot
will not start the mechanism again. You have to make a selection before the
mechanism will start running. Only when one or more memory pins have been
activated will the motor run and it will stop running as soon as all of the
memory pins have been reset.

The next generation Seeburgs (i.e. 60's) had a core memory called a
"Tormat". When these were used Seeburg redesigned the jukebox control system
so that after the last selection was played the mechanism made two complete
back and forth cycles, scanning the tormat to be sure that no other
selections had been made, before shutting down. Because of this change, the
last record was always put completely back into the rack because the motor
had to keep running to make those two last scans. The machines that Seeburg
made previous to these (like your "C") always shut down with the last played
record half way into the rack.

Again I'll say it, this was part of the design of the machine and the way
Seeburg intended it to work. Trying to make your "C" work differently
without a significant circuit re-design will create problems and
unreliability. If you don't like your Seeburg running like this you should
sell it and buy a Seeburg that's about 10 years newer.

--
Charley


"Murph" wrote in message
ups.com...
That can't be correct. The record doesn't move off of the turntable.
Even putting another coin into the jukebox doesn't work. The only way
to continue play is to use the manual scan to put the record back into
the magazine.

Close, but not quite exact. The selection pins are cancelled as the record is
raised into play position, not after the record completes play. Without extra
circuitry the motor would shut off with the last record selected only
partially in place and not played.

There's a switch on the front of the carriage assembly called the "carry-over"
switch wired in parallel with the selector pin circuit. The carry-over switch
closes while the mechanism is moving into and while in play position; this
keeps the motor running for the last record selected.

When the record is returned to the record magazine the carry-over switch
opens and assuming no more selections are made, power to the motor is removed.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

In article , "Charley"
wrote:
When the last selection has finished playing, the selection pin in the
memory is reset (this is what was keeping the motor running) and the motor
shuts off. When it coasts to a stop, the last played record is midway -
halfway into the rack. When you make another selection on the keyboard the
selection pin in the memory for that selection will be moved into the play
position making contact with the buss rail and the motor will start up
again. The motor now running finishes putting the last played record back
into the rack and then the clutch shifts to scan and the mechanism begins
seeking the memory pin or pins that have been activated for the new
selection(s). Each time it finds an activated pin in the memory it will stop
scanning, play that record, and then reset the memory pin. When it has found
and played the last selection and reset it's memory pin the motor will again
stop with the record half way into the rack. Dropping a coin into the slot
will not start the mechanism again. You have to make a selection before the
mechanism will start running. Only when one or more memory pins have been
activated will the motor run and it will stop running as soon as all of the
memory pins have been reset.

The next generation Seeburgs (i.e. 60's) had a core memory called a
"Tormat". When these were used Seeburg redesigned the jukebox control system
so that after the last selection was played the mechanism made two complete
back and forth cycles, scanning the tormat to be sure that no other
selections had been made, before shutting down. Because of this change, the
last record was always put completely back into the rack because the motor
had to keep running to make those two last scans. The machines that Seeburg
made previous to these (like your "C") always shut down with the last played
record half way into the rack.

Again I'll say it, this was part of the design of the machine and the way
Seeburg intended it to work. Trying to make your "C" work differently
without a significant circuit re-design will create problems and
unreliability. If you don't like your Seeburg running like this you should
sell it and buy a Seeburg that's about 10 years newer.

All fixed! I reduced the gap in the carry-over switch and that did the
trick. Thank you Tony and Charley for all your expertise.