Meta-question

Given the rather low traffic in the group, I've not had many cues from
which to pick up the customs of the groups, so I'll ask:
Is it appropriate to ask specific questions about certain stamps, or is
this a more general forum?

-Don Levey

Hi

I can help answer questions about South America, especially Colombia,
Ecuador and Venezuela.

Jerry B

In a recent message Don Levey wrote:

Given the rather low traffic in the group, I've not had many cues from
which to pick up the customs of the groups, so I'll ask:
Is it appropriate to ask specific questions about certain stamps,

Of course!

or is this a more general forum?

It does have the occasional diversion!


--
Tony Clayton
Coins of the UK : http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk
Sent using RISCOS using VirtualAcorn-SA running on a PC
.... One way to better your lot is to do a lot better...

In article ,
"Victor Manta" wrote:

The proposal for the RCSD charter is he

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/andyhiggins/rcsd.html

I couldn't find the definitive version on the Web, and when I asked here,
nobody answered. Maybe Jon Bell, who recently posted in a thread, and who in
the past published copies he

http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/usenet...d-charter.html

could help us in recovering them. Ones recovered, I or another participant
could publish them on their sites. Many TIA.

Fortunately, when I removed the Usenet-related pages from my web site a
few years ago, I saved a copy of them. Here are the charters for both
r.c.s.d and r.c.s.m, with slight modifications. The two groups were
voted upon separately, so each charter had language that allowed for the
possibility that the other group might fail its vote. Both groups of
course passed their votes, so I removed or modified that language
accordingly.

There's an "official" archive somewhere, with copies of the original
versions of all newsgroup charters, but it's been long enough ago that I
used it, that I don't remember its location. :-(

--------

CHARTER: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss

Rec.collecting.stamps.discuss is intended to be a non-
commercial, international, electronic forum for the
dissemination of philatelic information and discussion of
philately and stamps. In this charter, "stamp" includes stamped
postal stationery; any other form of postage (public or
private); stampless covers transmitted through the mails or via
private courier service; revenue stamps, paper, or any other
standard evidence of the payment of taxes or government fees;
postal savings stamps; maximum cards, postal seals; postal
receipts; proofs, essays, or original artwork of any of these;
booklet covers; packaging used in the shipping of stamps by
postal authorities; test coils; Cinderellas, forgeries, and
fakes of any of these; and supplies and materials appropriate
for use in collecting any of these. "Philately" includes
collecting, certifying, studying, documenting, exhibiting,
preserving, and storing stamps.

Messages posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss may include:
- Techniques for handling, mounting, sorting, storing,
displaying, exhibiting, and cataloging stamps.
- Requests for information about stamps.
- Responses to requests for information. (Where such responses
contain links to relevant Web pages, the once per 24 hours
limit for Web page announcements does not apply.)
- Announcements of new or existing philatelic Web pages. (No
person may post more than one such announcement in a 24 hour
period. Such an announcement may contain links to more than
one Web page. As long as the message itself is non-commercial
and merely calls attention to the Web pages, the Web pages
themselves may be commercial.)
- Presentations of research about stamps.
- Advice to beginners.
- Information about new issues. (However, commercial announcements
from new-issue services are prohibited and belong in
rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace.)
- Articles, reprints, and announcements from non-profit philatelic
societies and clubs.
- Announcements of stamp shows and exhibitions, including those with
commercial sponsorship. (Announcements shall be limited to
one per week for any specific show. If possible, the sponsor
should post the message; but this is not mandatory.)
- Lists of persons interested in trading (but not buying or selling)
stamps. (Revisions to such lists shall not be posted more often
than once per 14 days. Complete lists shall not be posted more
often than once per two calendar months. Announcements
containing
links to such lists are subject only to the once per day limit
for Web page announcements in general.)
- Revisions to "Frequently Asked Questions" and their answers.
- Announcements of new issues or editions of stamp publications (books
or periodicals), including those published in electronic form.
(No person may post more than one such announcement for each new
issue or edition.)
- Non-commercial offers to trade stamps for other stamps. (No person
may post more than one such offer in a 24 hour period. Each such
message should have XCH as a prefix on its subject line. Offers
to trade stamps for money or non-stamp items are not allowed;
these belong in rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace. Note that
lengthy lists of stamps available for trading shall be presumed
to represent prohibited commercial messages; to avoid problems,
such lists should be put in a Web page that can be announced in
rec.collecting.stamps.discuss.)
- Questions and comments about the operations of postal agencies and
philatelic organizations.
- Questions and comments about general commerce in stamps, providing
no offer (explicit or implicit) to buy or sell stamps is
contained
in the message.
- Discussions about the content, operation and use of the
rec.collecting.stamps.discuss newsgroup.
- Announcements of the creation or reoganization of listservs or other
newsgroups for stamp collectors.
Note that messages complying with the above may contain links to
commercial
Web pages.

The following are prohibited:
- Any message containing animation, video, or sound, none of which are
necessary for discussing stamps.
- Any commercial announcement, including but not limited to offers to
buy or sell stamps. (Announcements to buy or sell stamps belong
in rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace.)
- A solicitation to participate in a fraud as defined by either U. S.
federal codes (no matter where the solicitation originated) or by
the laws of the jurisdiction where the solicitation originated.
- Any message having no relationship to philately, stamps, postal
history, or postal agencies.
- Any message requesting or presenting personal messages to specific
individuals, such as an attempt to use the newsgroup as a
substitute for E-mail.
- A signature in excess of 250 bytes. (A PGP or other digital signature
that may be used to authenticate the source and content of a
message is not included in this limit. Public keys, however,
are not allowed; they should be communicated via either E-mail,
a Web page, or a public key server.)
- Unsubstantiated adverse comments about any collector or dealer.
(If a complaint has been formally filed with a law-enforcement
agency, a philatelic society, or a dealers' association against
a company or another individual, an announcement by the
complainant
is permitted. However, the complaint must be formally filed
before the message is posted. The target of a complaint may post
a response, which will not be considered a prohibited commercial
message.)

Cross-posting:
Messages may be cross-posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss and not
more than two other newsgroups, providing:
- The message is on-topic for all the involved newsgroups.
- The message is not prohibited by the charter (if any) of any of the
involved newsgroups, including the charter of
rec.collecting.stamps.discuss.
The limit of cross-posting to not more than three newsgroups is waived in
the case of messages announcing Usenet RFDs and CFVs relating to
newsgroups of interest to stamp collectors.

Graphics:
- No message may be posted containing graphics. Such messages may be
canceled automatically.
- Persons wishing to use graphics should instead provide one of the
following in a posted message:
-- an offer to E-mail the graphics to anyone who requests;
-- a link to a Web site containing the graphics;
-- a link to an FTP site from which anyone may download the graphics;
or
-- a reference to another newsgroup where graphics are permitted
within
messages.

Commercial versus non-commercial (or private party)

Q. Does it matter whether I'm a commercial dealer or a private
party?

A. Yes. Commercial dealers may not post advertising in
rec.collecting.stamps.discuss. Private parties may only post
offers to trade in rec.collecting.stamps.discuss. Private
parties may only post offers to buy, sell, or auction in
rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace. However, commercial
dealers may post non-commercial messages in
rec.collecting.stamps.discuss.

Language:

Rec.collecting.stamps.discuss is an international forum and articles may
be posted in any language. Since the continuation of the hobby
requires that we involve children and make them interested and
comfortable as collectors, profanity is prohibited (and is truly
unnecessary for discussing stamps).

Moderation:

Rec.collecting.stamps.discuss is an unmoderated group.

END CHARTER.

-------------

CHARTER: rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace

Abstract:

Rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace is intended to be an international
marketplace for the entire philatelic community. Whether you're a
commercial dealer, private party, a store-front operation, a mail bid
operator, a web-based auction site, this is the place to advertise your
philatelic wares.


Advertising:

While this list is not meant to be exhaustive, in the future, when
someone
finds something that's not in this list, the spirit of this charter and
this list should be used as a guideline to decide whether the new topic
is appropriate.

Types of ads that can be placed:

- Private party and commercial ads to buy, sell, auction, or trade
philatelic merchandise as defined below.

Types of ads that may be placed subject to the temperament of the readers
of the group:

- Private party and commercial ads to trade non-philatelic merchandise
for
philatelic merchandise. (E.g. phone cards for stamps.)

Types of ads that should not be placed:

- Private party and commercial ads to buy, sell, trade, or auction
merchandise that is not philatelic. (E.g. coins, phone cards, dolls,
beanie babies, other collectibles. See definition of philatelic
merchandise below.)

Other types of articles that can be posted:

- questions about what's appropriate to post in the group
- answers about what's appropriate to post in the group
- warnings of potential fraud for the unaware
- Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) or a pointer to it.
- advisories about bad dealers and bad customers

Other types of articles that should not be posted:

- general questions and answers -- use rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
(rcsd) or rec.collecting.postal-history (rcph) as appropriate
- questions about advertised merchandise -- send email to the advertiser
- unsolicited appraisals -- your face-on-mars, Hitler-head, Lady Diana,
and 22kt gold replica stamps aren't worth very much -- really!
- informational messages -- use rcsd or rcph as appropriate
- general commentary -- use rcsd or rcph as appropriate
- responses to or follow-ups to previous posts -- just don't.
- other general conversational type posts -- use rcsd or
rcph as appropriate

Definition of philatelic merchandise:

This list is not meant to be exhaustive. In the future people should look
to the intent and spirit of this charter to decide if anything else is
appropriate. At a minimum, for the purpose of this charter, philatelic
merchandise is defined as:

- postage stamps
- covers, stamped and stampless
- souvenir pages, commemorative panels, souvenir cards, etc.
- other postal history
- other stamps and stamp-like items such as revenues, ration book
stamps, dunes, Cinderellas, labels, registration and airmail labels,
local carriage, media releases, etc.
- dealer lots and accumulations of the above items
- philatelic auction catalogs
- stamp catalogs, e.g. Scott, Gibbons, Yvert & Tellier, Michel,
Brookman, Unitrade, Durland, etc.
- other philatelic literature such as postal histories, studies,
thematic checklists, etc.
- albums and album pages.
- supplies (new albums, album supplements, stockbooks, mounts,
tongs, U.V. lamps, watermark detectors, etc.)
- philatelic memorabilia such as postmarkers, badges, patches, vending
machines, posters and other marketing collateral, etc.

Format of ads:

The subject lines of ads should be prefixed using one or more of the
following:

- "FS:" - for sale
- "FA:" - for auction
- "FT:" - for trade
- "WTB:" - want to buy
- "BD:" - bad dealer notice
- "BC:" - bad customer notice
- other prefixes as necessary and agreed upon by the readers.

The subject should contain a terse description of the merchandise, e.g.
"New Zealand Postal History pre 1930." The body of the message is
freeform,
but subject to the restrictions listed below.

Be careful with bad dealer and bad customer notices. Defamation of
character (often referred to as libel and/or slander) is serious, and
while "the truth" is usually a bulletproof defense/defence, make certain
you know what the truth really is before you post.

Length of ads:

Ads should be short. Two screens full, or about 50 lines of text, is
about the right maximum length -- any longer is too long. If you have
more information to convey, put it on a web site or ftp site and post
the URL, or invite interested parties to send you email for more
information.

Frequency of ads:

Ads that are materially the same should be posted at a frequency of no
more than once per week. One survey found most news sites keep articles
for seven to ten days. If you post the same ad ten days in a row, then
when someone who only reads the group every few days will be faced with
several copies of your ad. Usenet news isn't TV. The ads aren't gone
the instant the next ad starts, i.e. they don't disappear. The ad you
post today will be there tomorrow for your potential customers to see.

If you find that you're posting many ads for different types of
merchandise, consider putting lists on your web page and post one message
with the URL of your page(s).

Don't spam the group. Spamming makes the readers unhappy and they may
chose not to patronize you if they're unhappy with you. This may seem
like common sense, but experience shows that not everyone understands
this.

No one may post the same ad more than once per week. Minor changes to
evade this stipulation are not allowed.

No one may post more than ten different ads per day or 50 different ads
per month. (You may not ask an employee or anyone else to post ads for
you in order to circumvent this limit.) Create a web age, ftp site, or
invite interested parties to send you email asking for more information.

Binaries in ads:

Binaries are not permitted. Binaries include:

- GIF, JPEG, PNG, TIFF, PICT, or other image files.

- Computer program files, .dlls, etc.

- any large non-human-readable file, e.g. word processing
files like MS-Word or WordPerfect .doc files.

Two pages of ASCII (or ISO8859-1) text on an 80x24 terminal is about 4000
bytes. No file bigger than 5000 bytes may be posted in an article
rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace.

How does someone know if something is in the spirit of the charter:

Ask on the newsgroup first. Be prepared to listen to and accept the
consensus of the newsgroup.

Commercial versus Private-party:

You are a commercial dealer if:

- you own and/or operate a storefront operation where you sell philatelic
merchandise

- you derive a substantial percentage of your income from dealing in
philatelic merchandise (decline to define what a substantial percentage
is, use your own judgment)

- you operate a web-based or mail-based bidding or auction service,
whether you charge a fee for using it or not.

- You own your own top-level Domain Name, e.g. linns.com, stangib.co.uk.

- you have a business checking/chequing account that you use for your
philatelic merchandise transactions

- You have a separate taxpayer identification issued by your I.R.S.,
Inland Revenue, etc., for your philatelic transactions.

- You have a separate corporation, i.e.: Inc, Gmbh, SA, Ltd., etc., or
own a sole proprietorship, for your philatelic merchandise
transactions.

- Even if none of the above describes you, you may still be considered
"commercial." Use your common sense to decide if you're a commercial
dealer or a private party.

Q. Does it matter whether I'm a commercial dealer or a private party?

A. Not for rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace.

Language:

Rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace is an international forum and articles
may be posted in any language.

Profanity is, as you might expect, discouraged.

Moderation:

Rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace is an unmoderated group.

Relationship to Other Usenet Newsgroups:

The proposed charter for rec.collecting.stamps.discuss explicitly
prohibits
the posting of commercial messages.

Posts in rec.collecting.stamps.marketplace probably ought not to be
cross-posted to rec.collecting.postal-history. See the
rec.collecting.stamps.discuss charter regarding cross-posting to
that newsgroup.

You should not cross-post ads to any other group unless its charter
specifically allows ads.

END CHARTER.

On 10/15/2010 18:14, Tony Clayton wrote:
In a recent message Don Levey wrote:

Given the rather low traffic in the group, I've not had many cues from
which to pick up the customs of the groups, so I'll ask:
Is it appropriate to ask specific questions about certain stamps,

Of course!


OK... Since I made the previous posting, I've learned a bit more via
research, which has allowed me to modify the question somewhat.

I am in possession of a 10-cent (US) Jefferson stamp which at first
blush I thought could be catalog number 139, 150, 161, 172, 187, 188 or
209 (I don't have it in front of me now, however). I've since managed
to eliminate some of those possibilities, based upon grill (there is
none; I've just purchased a stamp with a grill and now I know what it
looks like) and secret mark (likewise, none).

The next line of questioning seems to be the paper used; there seem to
have been three groups printed from three different printers.
Supposedly, National Banknote used "hard" bluish-white paper that was
fairly translucent. Continental used similar paper, but printed the
"secret marks" and so I can likely eliminate that one. On the other
hand, American Banknote used "soft" yellowish paper that was apparently
thicker, more coarse, and somewhat uneven.

It's the color that is puzzling me, as we're talking about 130-140 years
ago. The stamp I have is definitely yellowish (even in comparison to
other stamps I have from the era), and yet the paper itself is smooth,
even , and quite translucent. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I
might interpret this, and/or where I might look for further information?

Thank you,
-Don Levey

On 10/19/2010 19:43, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
Don Levey found these unused words:



It's the color that is puzzling me, as we're talking about 130-140 years
ago. The stamp I have is definitely yellowish (even in comparison to
other stamps I have from the era), and yet the paper itself is smooth,
even , and quite translucent. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I
might interpret this, and/or where I might look for further information?

Thank you,
-Don Levey

http://www.1847usa.com/BanknotePaperTypes.htm

Thank you very much - this should be quite helpful.
-Don

I am fascinated as to the difference between a meta-question and a question.

Besides 'Paper for ...' would be more informative :-)


--
Tony Clayton

On 10/26/2010 13:19, Tony Clayton wrote:
I am fascinated as to the difference between a meta-question and a
question.

Besides 'Paper for ...' would be more informative :-)


Well, I wasn't sure if such questions were considered acceptable here,
so I wanted to ask a question about questions first. You're correct,
though, that once I received assurances that such questions were OK, I
should have changed the subject line.

-Don

On 10/27/2010 11:58, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:


Is there a question questioning questions? G


I don't know if I can answer that... :-)
-Don