Any Poets aboard ?~Robert Burns.

This book has nothing to do with philately,
yet has a tempting title.
http://cjoint.com/data/emd2rMH1oi.htm

The reference to the "Guinea Stamp" only occurs
twice briefly in the text, but appears to be the nub
of the story.

It has some obscure reference to somebodys rank in life.
(I think)
The phrase is taken from one of Robert Burns' poems.

Can anyone offer any meaning to the phrase please?

"Rod" wrote in message
...
The phrase is taken from one of Robert Burns' poems.
Can anyone offer any meaning to the phrase please?

Belay the last request,
Wikipedia to the rescue

Burns said: "The rank is but the guinea stamp,
The man's the gowd for a' that"; when Sterne, in Tristram Shandy,
said, "Honours, like impressions upon coin, may give an ideal and
local value to a bit of base metal, but gold and silver will pass all the
world over without any other recommendation than their own weight,
" what did these writers do but adopt--adopt without improving--
Many's fine saying to Freeman, in the first act: "I weigh the man,
not his title; 'tis not the king's stamp can make the metal better or
heavier"?

So I am assuming "The Guinea stamp" refers to a "Dandy", a wealthy person
of questionable character.

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:20:00 +0800, "Rod"
wrote:


"Rod" wrote in message
...
The phrase is taken from one of Robert Burns' poems.
Can anyone offer any meaning to the phrase please?

Belay the last request,
Wikipedia to the rescue

Burns said: "The rank is but the guinea stamp,
The man's the gowd for a' that"; when Sterne, in Tristram Shandy,
said, "Honours, like impressions upon coin, may give an ideal and
local value to a bit of base metal, but gold and silver will pass all the
world over without any other recommendation than their own weight,
" what did these writers do but adopt--adopt without improving--
Many's fine saying to Freeman, in the first act: "I weigh the man,
not his title; 'tis not the king's stamp can make the metal better or
heavier"?

So I am assuming "The Guinea stamp" refers to a "Dandy", a wealthy person
of questionable character.


The book, by Annie Swann, is available to read at Project Gutenberg.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/17442 It's "A tale of modern Glasgow",
but Swan was born in 1859 (Edinburgh) and died in 1943 so "modern"
would be sometime between 1880 and 1940. She wrote 197 novels plus
many magazine articles including some under the name "David Lyall".
She's known as writer of romantic novels. The exception, "The
Pendulum", was published under the name of Mrs Burnett Smith (her
married name).

This is not one of her better-known novels.




--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

"Rod" wrote in message
...
| Burns said: "The rank is but the guinea stamp,
| The man's the gowd for a' that";
....|
| So I am assuming "The Guinea stamp" refers to a "Dandy", a wealthy person
| of questionable character.

I don't know about Burns but in Ms Swan's novel, it is used to refer to
social rank (lineage) in general, rather than a particular person. The
woman who dislikes rank quotes it as her favorite line.

tjr

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:20:00 +0800, "Rod"
wrote:

but Swan was born in 1859 (Edinburgh) and died in 1943 so "modern"
would be sometime between 1880 and 1940. She wrote 197 novels plus
This is not one of her better-known novels.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Cheers, Tony,
I think this was written circa 1904.
I used Gutenberg to search for the text string
because I couldn't relate the story to the title, and
wondered if it was mentioned at all in the text.
A modern novel would have the meaning in a
preface, but I guess at that time, the phrase was
well known and understood.

We have had queries on this NG as to the word
"Guinea' and its adoption in many countries around the world.

I'll press on and read the book, which came in a jumble
box at auction.

"Terry Reedy" wrote in message
. ..
I don't know about Burns but in Ms Swan's novel, it is used to refer to
social rank (lineage) in general, rather than a particular person. The
woman who dislikes rank quotes it as her favorite line.
tjr

I see, she must be supporting the heroine, as I think she (the heroine)
marries the poorer fellow in preference to the landed Dandy.

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:10:55 +0800, "Rod"
wrote:


"Tony Cooper" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:20:00 +0800, "Rod"
wrote:

but Swan was born in 1859 (Edinburgh) and died in 1943 so "modern"
would be sometime between 1880 and 1940. She wrote 197 novels plus
This is not one of her better-known novels.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Cheers, Tony,
I think this was written circa 1904.
I used Gutenberg to search for the text string
because I couldn't relate the story to the title, and
wondered if it was mentioned at all in the text.
A modern novel would have the meaning in a
preface, but I guess at that time, the phrase was
well known and understood.

We have had queries on this NG as to the word
"Guinea' and its adoption in many countries around the world.

AFAIK, the "guinea" was so named because the gold in the coin came
from the Guinea Coast of Africa. When the guinea was introduced in
1663 it was worth 20 shillings. However, shillings were made of
silver and the guinea was made of gold and the higher value of gold
made the 20 shillings in gold worth 21 shillings in silver. The value
of a guinea fluctuated and was worth up to 30 shillings at times.

The guinea confused me when I made my first trip to the UK and saw
things quoted in guineas in a unit of money that I found couldn't be
purchased. It was a pound plus a shilling. Some of the better
clothiers priced their wares in guineas.

--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Rod:

The full text is:


A Man's A Man For A' That

Is there for honest poverty
That hangs his head and a' that?
The coward slave, we pass him by
We daur be puir for a' that.
For a' that, and a' that
Our toils obscure, and a' that
The rank is but the guinea's stamp
The man's the gowd for a' that.

Ye see yon birkie ca'd a lord
Wha struts, and stares and a' that
Tho' hundreds worship at his word
He's but a coof for a' that.
For a' that, and a' that
His ribbon, star and a' that
the man o' independence mind
He looks and laughs at a' that.

A king can make a belted knight
A marquis, duke and a' that
But an honest man's aboon his micht
Gude faith, he maunna fa' all that
For a' that, and a' that
Their dignities and a' that
The pith o' sense and pride o' worth
Are higher ranks than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may
As come it will for a' that
That sense and worth o'er a' the earth
May bear the gree and a' that
For a' that, and a' that
It's coming yet, for a' that
When man to man the world o'er
Shall brithers be for a' that.

===========

By reading the whole text you can see that :
"The rank is but the guinea's stamp"
simply refers to the revenue stamp
placed on a official document granting
a title or honour.

"The man's the gowd for a' that."
Gowd is gold or wealth.

In today's words..... the honour / title is only
worth the value of the paper it is written on.
The true value of a man is determined by things
other than his titles, honours and money.

===================================


Blair

"Blair (TC)" wrote in message
oups.com...
Rod:
The full text is:

Thanks Blair,
I was thinking the stamp upon the gold,
eg: genuineness, purity, pedigree etc.
Thanks for the clarification.
"and all that" was a common phrase, I used
in my youth, but dropped it after coming to Oz.

Some passages in the book I have to read aloud
before I understand, Glaswegian is a very broad language.

I wonder if there are images around then, of
"The guinea stamp", perhaps a wax seal?

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:10:55 +0800, "Rod"
wrote:
AFAIK, the "guinea" was so named because the gold in the coin came
from the Guinea Coast of Africa. When the guinea was introduced in
1663 it was worth 20 shillings. However, shillings were made of
silver and the guinea was made of gold and the higher value of gold
made the 20 shillings in gold worth 21 shillings in silver. The value
of a guinea fluctuated and was worth up to 30 shillings at times.

G'day Tony,
raking over the carcases of past discussions in the NG
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...opics?hl=en&lr
=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Employing the search string "Guinea"

There is this from our members Tony Gelat, and Victor Manta.

guinea is the name of a gold coin minted in England from gold
obtained from the Guinea coast and worth 21 shillings, or 1.05 pounds.
British snobs priced many things in guineas, perhaps to get that extra 5
percent.

The country name Guinea comes from the coast of Guinea in west central
Africa. It is probably the misspelling of the ancient African kingdom of
Ghana. The former British colony of Gold Coast renamed itself Ghana upon
independence in 1957.


Several European countries had colonies on that coast. Listed below is a
short philatelic history of that coast, from west to east:


- Portuguese Guiana: Guine Portuguesa, became independent in 1974, and
renamed itself Guine -Bissau, after the capital city.


- French Guinea: Guinee Francaise. Became independent in 1958, and now
called Guinee.


- Gold Coast: now Ghana


- Spanish Guinea: Formerly the colonies of Rio Muni and Fernando Poo, with
their own stamps. Upon independence in 1968, they joined to form Guinea
Ecuatorial.


In South America, Columbus named the northern coast he had just discovered
Guiana. It is unlikely that the name has anything to do with the African
Guinea coast.

From west to east, there we
- British Guiana, renamed Guyana upon independence in 1966.
- Suriname, also informally called Dutch Guiana, became independent in
1975.
- French Guiana, called Guyane Francaise. After WWII, it became a
department of France, under the name of Guyane, and now uses French stamps.
Tony
=====================
Shortly, apparently there are several explanations:
- From Djene, a state of the 7th century
- A bad transcription of the word "Ghana", the oldest empire of the Dark
Ages
- Borrowed by the Spaniards from the first African language that they met,
that of Moroccan Berbers. AKAL-N-IGUINAWEN means the same like in Arab
BILAD-AS-SUDAN: country of blacks.
Victor Manta