Cancellers that perforate.

Someone was enquiring on the recognition of
others, recently in this NG.
Well here is one from China.
http://cjoint.com/data/emdfYHL1Sx.htm

I must say, a lot more attractive than the "smudge"
cancels of England, or the machine cancels of Australia.

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:13:27 +0800, "Rod"
found
these unused words floating about:

Post offices didn't/don't care about being 'attractive'. The method of
defacing is called an 'obliterator' for good reason. It's to prevent reuse
and loss of revenue!
When stamps were as valid as cash, this was even more important to the
exchequer.

I disagree,
why do countries like Switzerland, Austria, Germany, amongst others,
have such consistent fine and accurate strikes, whilst the pages of
British Machins we see here ad nauseum, look like a dog's breakfast.
If "obliteration" was its sole purpose, why do people complain
with felt or biro cancels?
There well may be common sense reasons why they are so,
but I'd hazard a guess Scrooge has moved lodgings, into
a room at British Post.

On Apr 12, 8:52?pm, "Rod" wrote:
"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in messagenews:kfgs13p4nvug4iia1itp0f0s1a06jkn5u5@4ax .com...

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:13:27 +0800, "Rod"
found
these unused words floating about:
Post offices didn't/don't care about being 'attractive'. The method of
defacing is called an 'obliterator' for good reason. It's to prevent reuse
and loss of revenue!
When stamps were as valid as cash, this was even more important to the
exchequer.

I disagree,
why do countries like Switzerland, Austria, Germany, amongst others,
have such consistent fine and accurate strikes, whilst the pages of
British Machins we see here ad nauseum, look like a dog's breakfast.
If "obliteration" was its sole purpose, why do people complain
with felt or biro cancels?
There well may be common sense reasons why they are so,
but I'd hazard a guess Scrooge has moved lodgings, into
a room at British Post.

I agree entirely with Sir Rodney, he speaks the honest truth.
I have a few "skips" from New Zealand and Australia, worthless as a
cover since anyone can stick a stamp on a envelolpe and say it missed
the cancelling device and or machine. Then there are the ball point
pen cancels, again worthless as far as being collectable. Same reason
as the "skips".
The dreaded "killer" cancels are also uncollectable, anyone can smear
a daub of ink on a stamp.
As far as I am concerned a stamp should have "fine and accurate
strikes" or something close to it.
You collectors of really old stamps disregard all this. Back in those
days they were just learning the ropes. Cork cancels, Ugh.

Ralphael, the OLD one

"Ralphael1" wrote in message
oups.com...

The dreaded "killer" cancels are also uncollectable, anyone can smear
a daub of ink on a stamp.
Ralphael, the OLD one

Here is a random page from what we call in Oz
"floor sweepings"
http://cjoint.com/?enp3y2rgX6
It is not engineered, just a random page in a Chinese
stock book, that do the "carousel" trip around the auctions
They are probably left overs from pickings, and probably
in the main parcel cancels, which are excusable.
What is evident to me, is that the modern canceller in Britain,
now is of a rubber type, and the ink of low viscosity.

In Australia we have the current situation where the
machine canceller has a go, and then the dot matrix
pin canceller does a piggy back, leaving a cacophony of smudges.

On Apr 13, 9:23 pm, "Ralphael1" wrote:
On Apr 12, 8:52?pm, "Rod" wrote:



"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in messagenews:kfgs13p4nvug4iia1itp0f0s1a06jkn5u5@4ax .com...

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:13:27 +0800, "Rod"
found
these unused words floating about:
Post offices didn't/don't care about being 'attractive'. The method of
defacing is called an 'obliterator' for good reason. It's to prevent reuse
and loss of revenue!
When stamps were as valid as cash, this was even more important to the
exchequer.

I disagree,
why do countries like Switzerland, Austria, Germany, amongst others,
have such consistent fine and accurate strikes, whilst the pages of
British Machins we see here ad nauseum, look like a dog's breakfast.
If "obliteration" was its sole purpose, why do people complain
with felt or biro cancels?
There well may be common sense reasons why they are so,
but I'd hazard a guess Scrooge has moved lodgings, into
a room at British Post.

I agree entirely with Sir Rodney, he speaks the honest truth.
I have a few "skips" from New Zealand and Australia, worthless as a
cover since anyone can stick a stamp on a envelolpe and say it missed
the cancelling device and or machine. Then there are the ball point
pen cancels, again worthless as far as being collectable. Same reason
as the "skips".
The dreaded "killer" cancels are also uncollectable, anyone can smear
a daub of ink on a stamp.
As far as I am concerned a stamp should have "fine and accurate
strikes" or something close to it.
You collectors of really old stamps disregard all this. Back in those
days they were just learning the ropes. Cork cancels, Ugh.

Ralphael, the OLD one

Ah, killers:
http://cjoint.com/?eofG0dH4Zp
I had to submit this to the fine people at the India Study Circle to
find out where the stamp at lower right came from. (The stamp is
Jhalawar SG 2, with a very fine strike of the commonest of the
Jhalawar cancels. In fact, there are a few traces of the green outer
frame of the stamp just visible.)

Tony Mac Gillycuddy

On 13 Apr 2007 20:38:28 -0700, "Asia-translation"
wrote:

On Apr 13, 9:23 pm, "Ralphael1" wrote:
On Apr 12, 8:52?pm, "Rod" wrote:



"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in messagenews:kfgs13p4nvug4iia1itp0f0s1a06jkn5u5@4ax .com...

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:13:27 +0800, "Rod"
found
these unused words floating about:
Post offices didn't/don't care about being 'attractive'. The method of
defacing is called an 'obliterator' for good reason. It's to prevent reuse
and loss of revenue!
When stamps were as valid as cash, this was even more important to the
exchequer.

I disagree,
why do countries like Switzerland, Austria, Germany, amongst others,
have such consistent fine and accurate strikes, whilst the pages of
British Machins we see here ad nauseum, look like a dog's breakfast.
If "obliteration" was its sole purpose, why do people complain
with felt or biro cancels?
There well may be common sense reasons why they are so,
but I'd hazard a guess Scrooge has moved lodgings, into
a room at British Post.

I agree entirely with Sir Rodney, he speaks the honest truth.
I have a few "skips" from New Zealand and Australia, worthless as a
cover since anyone can stick a stamp on a envelolpe and say it missed
the cancelling device and or machine. Then there are the ball point
pen cancels, again worthless as far as being collectable. Same reason
as the "skips".
The dreaded "killer" cancels are also uncollectable, anyone can smear
a daub of ink on a stamp.
As far as I am concerned a stamp should have "fine and accurate
strikes" or something close to it.
You collectors of really old stamps disregard all this. Back in those
days they were just learning the ropes. Cork cancels, Ugh.

Ralphael, the OLD one

Ah, killers:
http://cjoint.com/?eofG0dH4Zp
I had to submit this to the fine people at the India Study Circle to
find out where the stamp at lower right came from. (The stamp is
Jhalawar SG 2, with a very fine strike of the commonest of the
Jhalawar cancels. In fact, there are a few traces of the green outer
frame of the stamp just visible.)

Actually, it does look like someone lost some "blood" on this one.
Maybe it was a killer.

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
news
You're both missing the point ...cancellation is not done for collectors!
It

Yeah right, and stamps arn't made for collectors,
they are for pre payment of postage.

On Apr 14, 6:11?pm, Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:18:33 +0800, "Rod" found
these unused words floating about:



"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
news

You're both missing the point ...cancellation is not done for collectors!
It

Yeah right, and stamps arn't made for collectors,
they are for pre payment of postage.

They were ... but so many of the -=MINT=- labels are now intended for
collection ... the 'used' still did for postage, thus obliterated to prevent
a second use.

Then there are the favor cancels, or hand back cancels. Here in the
USA most post offices will cancel your letter then return it to you.
My post office allows me to borrow the dater and apply my own
cancellation. In front of the window clerk of course.
Cancellation and post mark are not always the same thing but can be.

Ralphael, the OLD one

"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
...

They were ... but so many of the -=MINT=- labels are now intended for
collection ... the 'used' still did for postage, thus obliterated to
prevent
a second use.

I still suggest your idea comes from misguided logic.
We have evidence from as early as 1840, that postal
entities wer more sophisticated in their views,
from what you suggest.
Some countries, elected to remain with arms type images
directly in response to respect for their monarchs, who
would appear defaced by the canceller.
Others went to great pains to design a canceller, that
created a frame around the stamp, thus avoiding
the disrespect.
I have internal postal stationery from Australia, in form
of an instruction sheet to their postal clerks, on how to
correctly apply a strike, and the pertinence given to
philatelists, and their particular needs, first day covers etc.

Certainly cancellers are there to prevent re-use, but
postal authorities have the wherewithal to introduce
systems that can serve both purposes, Austria, Switzerland,
Germany are some that have.
Great Britain and Australia are prime examples where the proof
lies on every cover, that quality and pride of workmanship,
is lacking.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:18:33 +0800, "Rod"
wrote:


"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote in message
news
You're both missing the point ...cancellation is not done for collectors!
It

Yeah right, and stamps arn't made for collectors,
they are for pre payment of postage.

Well... technically... yes.