refilling cartridges

wrote:
(snip) some of us treat our pens as pens. Not toys to put pretty colors
on paper so it doesn't matter. I use blue ink. Period. Nor do I
care what shade of blue. No offense to those who like pretty colors,
and for that the Snorkle would make a toy as good as the next

I guess. Frank


Well, guess again Frank.....
Some of us (more adverturous or artsy types) enjoy different ink colors
and papers too. AND (get this!), we still consider ourselves serious
pen afficionados. Yes we do! Contrary to what you wrote, we don't
think of, or treat, our pens as toys.

I mean, even with addition of "no offense", that "toy" comment
bordered on the obnoxious and insulting, yes? While realizing that you
have a right to your opinion, I can't let that comment slide to the
delete key when you dismiss all ink fans as pens-as toys-people due to a
fondness for colors.
It. simply. is. not. true.

Nancy

Nancy Handy wrote:

Well, guess again Frank.....
Some of us (more adverturous or artsy types) enjoy different ink colors
and papers too. AND (get this!), we still consider ourselves serious
pen afficionados. Yes we do! Contrary to what you wrote, we don't
think of, or treat, our pens as toys.

I mean, even with addition of "no offense", that "toy" comment
bordered on the obnoxious and insulting, yes? While realizing that you
have a right to your opinion, I can't let that comment slide to the
delete key when you dismiss all ink fans as pens-as toys-people due to a
fondness for colors.

I would think if George Parker or Walter Sheaffer could see would some
people are doing with their pens today they would think its obnnoxious
and insulting. At any rate I don't give a damn. Its anyone's right to
do what they want with to their pens. But pens , for the most part
excepting maybe those sold as artists pens, which are usually low cost
and designed differently are simply NOT designed to be used with 20
different colored inks a week. They never were. For anyone to suggest
otherwise is obnoxious and insulting.

No 100% serious pen collector would do that. I said COLLECTOR, in the
terms of someone who collects somthing as the best possible example of
an item to be keep in as good condition as possible. Not to say someon
can't drive a nice condition Model T Ford or use a nice pen. but it
should be done CAREFULLY and in a way the item was designed to be used.
But a serious collector of Model Ts won't install a V8 engine, nor paint
the Ford pink. That a hot rod. Perfect legit hobby, but like pen
"users" vs "serious collectors" its a different breed of person and a
very different branch of a hobby.

Now once again, NO OFFENSIVE. But a pen "afficionado" is not the same
as a serious collector as I describe it above. The bottom line FACT is
the VAST majority of advanced serious pen collectors never use their
pens at all. Ask around at pen shows. Look in shirt pocket. Ask how
many pockets have pens with INK in them. (Boris Rice at LA borrowed a
pen from me this year cuz the four in his shirt pocket were uninked and
never would be.) At most they may have a 51 or Snorkel to write with.
The rest never see ink. If that offensds anyone its too damn bad. They
have the right to keep their pens as they want just as others have the
right to use em in any way they want.

Once again it boils down to not telling others what to do or think. The
bottom line fact, however, is those that do use their pens as "toys" (as
I defined "toys") will experience far more trouble than those who just
use a pen for normal writing in no way different from a Bic. So when
the question of repairs, damage, clogs, stains and such comes up many
times it caused by mistreatment, even simple over cleaning by those that
use (or misuse) pens in a way they were not designed to be used.

Ent of rant. If you or anyone is still offeneded, just remember I have
the right to be offended at what I MIGHT consider misue of pens.
Just as you have to right to be offended that I might feel that way.
Frank

Nancy Handy wrote:

and that is what you did (or came dangerously close to doing) when
you stated that people who use colored inks are treating their pens as
toys. I still say - not true. The reason it offends is because as you
are THE indisputed authority on pen repair in this group, your
statement-as-fact that colored ink users treat pens as toys carries more
clout than if stated the same opinion. How you can be
offended by someone getting annoyed when you label them as making their
pens playthings or misusing them is beyond me.




I repeat IN MY OPINION using 20 different colors in a given pen is abuse
of the pen. Its my opinion and I am entitled to it. You can disagree,
but it IS MY OPINION. Right or wrong. I am entitled to MY opinion.
It seriously CAN and WILL shorten the life of many pens between repairs.
Read on and think, please...

On average I fill my pens once every two weeks or less, say, 25 times a
year. Over 30 years thats 750 operations of the filler. Add a few
flushes and few extra strokes, so maybe 800-850 TOTAL in 30 years.
Multiply times 10 for a Vac or other multi stroke filler.

Using 20 inks in a week with flushes for cleaning can easily mean 50-100
filler operations a week. 500-1000 for a Vac filler IN ONE WEEK at 10
strokes per fill. Thats 2600-5,200 filler operations in ONE year.
26,000 to 52,000 for a VAC. In 30 years that would be 78,000 for one
stroke fillers. Or a million for a VAC. But virtually no pen can last
that long without major repair. A Vac filler will very rarely last more
than several thousand strokes if that. Think if the stress of the sac
turning inside out each time. A Vac sac would fall apart FAR sooner.
A plunger filler would blow out the rear seals FAR sooner. Metal fatigue
may wreck a presure bar of a lever filler but before that the sac breaks
open from strss. Converters will loose their seal and even the puncture
nipple on many cartridge pens will wear and begin to leak at those
rates.

Do the math. Which pen is being treated better and which will need
less repairs? No filler lasts forever. But EVERY SINGLE operation of
ANY filler all counts to its eventual "death" and hopeful new life in a
repair. But EEVRY repair no matter how small is a risk.

Now once again, treat your pens any way you like. In MY opinion I treat
my pens well and they will last. I know this from experience. I also
know yours cannot last as long treating them as you do. That is still
your right. I HAVE THE RIGHT to think you are not treating them in the
best possible manner. Which is NONE OF MY BUSINESS AT ALL. I admit
that. But I can and will point out using 20 different inks can
seriously shorten a pens life. More so on some pens than others. I have
every right to say that and above I explain it and its simply math,
coupled with common sense.

Be that as it may--have fun with your pens because that is what the
hobby is for. I've known you too long as a friend, Nancy, to want a
flame war with you. At very least lets just agree to disagree on this
if nothing else. Frank

wrote in message ...
Only of the cardboard box which was not designed for such things.
FD

Good deal! I knew it cost $12 for something. It is a very nice box, and it
even looks leather wrapped.
Richard

wrote:
But pens , for the most part
excepting maybe those sold as artists pens, which are usually low cost
and designed differently are simply NOT designed to be used with 20
different colored inks a week.

I stick with fuschia and I'm not going back!!!

(well, may be orange and yellow at special occassions...)

Ada

what ever.

ha ha ha...

PENMART01 wrote:
Ada Ma writes:


I stick with fuschia and I'm not going back!!!

(well, may be orange and yellow at special occassions...)


Stick with Crayolas... the adverb 'maybe' is one word.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

PENMART01 scribbles:

Stick with Crayolas... the adverb 'maybe' is one word.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."


Tsk, Tsk. Again with the ellipses. Please, allow me to quote,

"Ellipses 3 is the use of periods or other marks to indicate the omission of
words in a quotation: 'Better late than never, but..' Conventionally, use
three periods within a sentence. When your ellipsis ends with the end of a
phrase, clause, or sentence in the original, use four periods or three plus
whatever mark ended the original." -- Kenneth G. Wilson (1923-). The
Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.

Expanded explanations of uses are presented in both "A Manual of Style"
(Univ. of Chicago) and "Brittannica Book of English Usage" (Encylcopaedia
Brittannica). None is applicable.

BTW, here's the URL for the quotation:
http://tinyurl.com/hvqq

What was that about, "Those who live in glass houses...."?

Mark Z.

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:23:33 GMT, (Nancy Handy)
wrote:

Well, guess again Frank.....
Some of us (more adverturous or artsy types) enjoy different ink colors
and papers too. AND (get this!), we still consider ourselves serious
pen afficionados. Yes we do! Contrary to what you wrote, we don't
think of, or treat, our pens as toys.

i've taken a gander at some beautiful "illuminated" texts from many
centuries ago. They're not all blue.