An amazing coincidence

It is not often that two "different" coins can appear the same when
photographed. The following
ebay auction lot

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04386 24&rd=1

has an uncanny resemblance to the following lot offered by the Gelos
Auction House of
Moscow:

http://www.antique.ru/numbigimages/novAM.jpg

It just goes to show that truly professional photographers get the exact
same result, even
including flaws on the coin, when photographing two "different" specimens.

The 1704 coin from the same seller also can be found on the Gelos
website and perhaps the other
coin as well. The shipping is only $100 per lot.

Of course, the two coins cannot be the same as the seller assures us
that the 1654 coin has been
in a museum for the past 50 years and comes with authentication papers.

RW Julian

In article , RW Julian
wrote:
Of course, the two coins cannot be the same as the seller assures us
that the 1654 coin has been
in a museum for the past 50 years and comes with authentication papers.


Well there you go. Next week's column, nearly written for you:
"Numismatics in the World of Synchronicity."

Perfect.

Scot Kamins
--
"A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for
lunch.Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision."
- Benjamin Franklin

"RW Julian" wrote:
Of course, the two coins cannot be the same as the seller assures us
that the 1654 coin has been
in a museum for the past 50 years and comes with authentication papers.

Sorry, I no speakee Ruskii. What does the Russian web site say about the
coin's history and/or current status? Is it for sale on the Russian site, or
could it have already sold, or awaiting auction pending an attempt to get a
high price through an eBay consignment dealer? Is it possible that the coin
was indeed a suplus piece at a museum, that the museum has sold it (or wants
to sell it), and that there's an innocent explanation for why it's being
posted on two web sites at once?

--Chris

The coin in question is for sale by the Gelos firm of Moscow for $2500
and is a restrike
made, probably, during the reign of Catherine the Great. The ebay seller
misrepresents
it as an original struck in 1654. The reserve set by the seller, about
$350, is far below its
true value. The use of such illustrations to sell coins not owned by the
seller has been
noted from time to time on ebay.

The list of czarist silver coins for sale by Gelos, with prices &
illustrations, may be seen at

http://www.antique.ru/serebro.shtml

It is illegal to export such coins from Russia and even if this sale was
legitimate, the piece
would be seized by customs.

The 1704 coin offered by the same seller may also be found at the above
site.

RW Julian



Chris S wrote:

"RW Julian" wrote:

Of course, the two coins cannot be the same as the seller assures us
that the 1654 coin has been
in a museum for the past 50 years and comes with authentication papers.


Sorry, I no speakee Ruskii. What does the Russian web site say about the
coin's history and/or current status? Is it for sale on the Russian site, or
could it have already sold, or awaiting auction pending an attempt to get a
high price through an eBay consignment dealer? Is it possible that the coin
was indeed a suplus piece at a museum, that the museum has sold it (or wants
to sell it), and that there's an innocent explanation for why it's being
posted on two web sites at once?

--Chris

If memory serves correct, when I was in Russia it was illegal to export anything dated prior to 1945. But I had someone in a museum tell me it was anything prior to 1917. So I think there really is some law regarding antiquities, but it seems to be subject to individual or even regional interpretations or can be influenced by a gratuity(bribe to westerners) to customs officials.


Dave


Tir nam Beann, nan Gleann, s'nan Gaisgeach - Saor Alba A-Nis!


It is illegal to export such coins from Russia and even if this sale was legitimate, the piece
would be seized by customs.
RW Julian





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Generally speaking the remarks are correct. The dates have changed from
time to time. In
1997, the last time I was there, any book dated before about 1980 was on
the forbidden list.
Coins from before 1917 have been on the prohibited list for a long time
but I am not certain
about Soviet coins. I do know that modern Russian coins can be exported
(silver commemoratives,
for example) but there is some kind of limit on how many at one time.
The regulations are
rather arbitrary and if one travels to Russia it is best to inquire in
advance.

RW Julian



Scottishmoney wrote:

If memory serves correct, when I was in Russia it was illegal to
export anything dated prior to 1945. But I had someone in a museum
tell me it was anything prior to 1917. So I think there really is
some law regarding antiquities, but it seems to be subject to
individual or even regional interpretations or can be influenced by a
gratuity(bribe to westerners) to customs officials.





Dave


Tir nam Beann, nan Gleann, s'nan Gaisgeach - Saor Alba A-Nis!



It is illegal to export such coins from Russia and even if this
sale was legitimate, the piece
would be seized by customs.
RW Julian







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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 434 - Release Date: 4/28/04

"Scottishmoney" wrote:
If memory serves correct, when I was in Russia it was illegal to export
anything dated prior to 1945. But I
had someone in a museum tell me it was anything prior to 1917. So I think
there really is some law regarding antiquities, but it seems to be subject
to individual or even regional interpretations or can be influenced by a
gratuity(bribe to westerners) to customs officials.

I don't doubt that a determined merchant can bypass import/export
restrictions, but the price disparity seems too good to be true for the coin
in question. I wonder what the winning bidder will actually receive in the
mail.

--Chris