FA: 1955/55 DDO Lincoln Cent PCGS MS-64 RD Oly..this one's for YOU

On Jul 4, 11:27 pm, "Honus" . wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

ps.com...





On Jul 4, 10:57 pm, "Honus" . wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

oups.com...

snip

Should you not make any money when you resell a modern U.S. coin
priced at this level, what was the point?

Spoken like a true non-collector.

My response spoken like a devil's advocate. But IF you are a
collector, then why isn't an XF 1955 double die good enough and you
can keep the other $12,000 for the pursuit of other better pieces?
Like a Charles II five guineas?

For me, now, with my present financial situation, an XF would be good
enough. If I had a lot more disposable income, I just might want better.
What's so terrible about wanting the highest grade collection you can get?
If you want the high end stuff, you have to pay for it. But that's been
explained here before, and I don't want to debate you about it. It just
seems to me that that you're missing the point of collecting...profit
doesn't -have- to be a factor. You're focusing too much on Ira's
investment-type of clientele.

A date and mint set of Lincoln pennies is drivel for teething
numismatic babies.

I think quite a few people with a lot more money to spend than we have would
disagree.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Honus, there may be a spot in IRA-WEH's version of Limbo reserved just
for you.

Oh my, now you've used the "i" word.

The Lord God Ira-WEH doesn't sell "i" coins. He's said so many
times. We should believe everything that Ira has ever thought done or
said, dontcha know?

You're probably gonna be literally assaulted by the cult now.

Ira doesn't sell "i" coins.

Ira may sell natural male enhancement coins, but nope, he doesn't sell
"i" coins.

oly

"oly" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 5, 4:40 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

[massive dialogue mercifully snipped]

I've never inventoried the participants in RCC, but I would guess that
there
are well over a hundred people who outwardly express their individual
opinions on a fairly regular basis. In my somewhat limited experience
here
(only 3+ years) I have yet to find two identical opinions. RCC is not a
monolith with a published manifesto of any kind, thus all opinions can be
considered as dissenting opinions, including the one I am expressing in
this
post. Not everyone, perhaps very few or even possibly no one, will care
for
it. I may well be plonked, silently or noisily, for expressing it. I
accept that risk.

That said, anyone who has studied the coin "market" over the past couple
centuries can point to periods of both boom and bust. These periods are
not
totally independent of what the economy in general is doing. Of course,
there is risk in buying the coin in question here, just as there is risk
in
buying anything. There is never an assurance that what we buy today can
be
sold tomorrow for what we paid for it, much less a profit. In fact, the
most common reality is that the monetized value of just about everything
we
buy declines to a fraction of the selling price, and it declines
immediately. But if I purchase the object coin today, and its "book"
value
suddenly declines to a tenth of what I paid for it, I will not have lost
any
money except on paper. Instead, if I am in this hobby with an eye toward
investment, I am taking the risk that I will outlive the market decline
and
come out ahead of the game, perhaps years down the road. Fifty-five
doubled
dies are not a renewable resource such as were tulips in 1600s Holland.
Thus market history gives me pretty good odds for success.

And what if I fail to outlive the market decline? What if the market
never
recovers? What if I become destitute through individual or general
economic
depression and am forced to liquidate at whatever price level? Have I
not
had custody of a coin to enjoy for its own sake in the meantime? We can
talk of individual taste, which boils down again to individual opinion,
but
that's what collecting is all about, and, in fact, that's what life is
all
about.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What, pray tell, enjoyment is there in paying $13,400 for a Lincoln
Cent?

The only enjoyment would be when you eventually sold it to a greater
fool for more money than you paid for it.

Period.

The enjoyment is not in the paying, it is in the owning. And that enjoyment
can last for a long time. At least it has for me, with regard to the things
I own. It's an approach to collecting that I have chosen out of the many
possible approaches. My approach is right for me. Your approach is right
for you. There are no bad guys here.

James

"oly" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 4, 11:27 pm, "Honus" . wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

ps.com...





On Jul 4, 10:57 pm, "Honus" . wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

oups.com...

snip

Should you not make any money when you resell a modern U.S. coin
priced at this level, what was the point?

Spoken like a true non-collector.

My response spoken like a devil's advocate. But IF you are a
collector, then why isn't an XF 1955 double die good enough and you
can keep the other $12,000 for the pursuit of other better pieces?
Like a Charles II five guineas?

For me, now, with my present financial situation, an XF would be good
enough. If I had a lot more disposable income, I just might want better.
What's so terrible about wanting the highest grade collection you can
get?
If you want the high end stuff, you have to pay for it. But that's been
explained here before, and I don't want to debate you about it. It just
seems to me that that you're missing the point of collecting...profit
doesn't -have- to be a factor. You're focusing too much on Ira's
investment-type of clientele.

A date and mint set of Lincoln pennies is drivel for teething
numismatic babies.

I think quite a few people with a lot more money to spend than we have
would
disagree.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Honus, there may be a spot in IRA-WEH's version of Limbo reserved just
for you.

Oh my, now you've used the "i" word.

The Lord God Ira-WEH doesn't sell "i" coins. He's said so many
times. We should believe everything that Ira has ever thought done or
said, dontcha know?

You're probably gonna be literally assaulted by the cult now.

Ira doesn't sell "i" coins.

Ira may sell natural male enhancement coins, but nope, he doesn't sell
"i" coins.

In my condition, and at my age, that actually sounds kind of attractive.
Sure would beat the daily email spam offers I get.

James

On Jul 5, 5:20 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jul 5, 4:40 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

[massive dialogue mercifully snipped]





I've never inventoried the participants in RCC, but I would guess that
there
are well over a hundred people who outwardly express their individual
opinions on a fairly regular basis. In my somewhat limited experience
here
(only 3+ years) I have yet to find two identical opinions. RCC is not a
monolith with a published manifesto of any kind, thus all opinions can be
considered as dissenting opinions, including the one I am expressing in
this
post. Not everyone, perhaps very few or even possibly no one, will care
for
it. I may well be plonked, silently or noisily, for expressing it. I
accept that risk.

That said, anyone who has studied the coin "market" over the past couple
centuries can point to periods of both boom and bust. These periods are
not
totally independent of what the economy in general is doing. Of course,
there is risk in buying the coin in question here, just as there is risk
in
buying anything. There is never an assurance that what we buy today can
be
sold tomorrow for what we paid for it, much less a profit. In fact, the
most common reality is that the monetized value of just about everything
we
buy declines to a fraction of the selling price, and it declines
immediately. But if I purchase the object coin today, and its "book"
value
suddenly declines to a tenth of what I paid for it, I will not have lost
any
money except on paper. Instead, if I am in this hobby with an eye toward
investment, I am taking the risk that I will outlive the market decline
and
come out ahead of the game, perhaps years down the road. Fifty-five
doubled
dies are not a renewable resource such as were tulips in 1600s Holland.
Thus market history gives me pretty good odds for success.

And what if I fail to outlive the market decline? What if the market
never
recovers? What if I become destitute through individual or general
economic
depression and am forced to liquidate at whatever price level? Have I
not
had custody of a coin to enjoy for its own sake in the meantime? We can
talk of individual taste, which boils down again to individual opinion,
but
that's what collecting is all about, and, in fact, that's what life is
all
about.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What, pray tell, enjoyment is there in paying $13,400 for a Lincoln
Cent?

The only enjoyment would be when you eventually sold it to a greater
fool for more money than you paid for it.

Period.

The enjoyment is not in the paying, it is in the owning. And that enjoyment
can last for a long time. At least it has for me, with regard to the things
I own. It's an approach to collecting that I have chosen out of the many
possible approaches. My approach is right for me. Your approach is right
for you. There are no bad guys here.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, if someone needs a 1955 double die, you can accomplish that for
about one-tenth of the price that Ira has posited.

And you can probably get a coin without a honking big tin spot on
it.

Save 90%!!!

Of course, you might not get that wonderful 7 YEAR OLD PLASTIC!

But you'll have much less to worry about!

oly

"oly" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
The Lord God Ira-WEH doesn't sell "i" coins. He's said so many
times. We should believe everything that Ira has ever thought done or
said, dontcha know?

Oly, how much more of this will it take to satisfy you? You've given ample
evidence in all of these kinds of responses you that you detest Ira. OK, you
have the right to adopt that stance towards him if you choose to do so, and
you have emphatically done so. FWIW, I don't think there is anyone here who
enjoys reading this type of stuff over and over. I know that I surely
don't. Please cease from continuing this activity. Enough is enough, and
in this case, it's *more* than enough.

I don't know if it's of any importance to you, but one of the 10
Commandments (listed in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5) is very clear. God
does not take lightly those who use His name in vain. In layman's terms,
He's saying "Don't go messin' with my name." You may want to consider that.

Larry

"oly" wrote in message
oups.com...

The Lord God Ira-WEH doesn't sell "i" coins.

Hey oly, you are entitled to express your opinions, but I would appreciate
it if we could avoid even wandering near the line of expressing racism or
bigotry. The use of Ira-WEH makes me feel you are making allegations about
Ira being Jewish as if that is something shameful and I just don't feel that
is prudent. I hope you consider my thoughts on avoiding this line of
verbiage.

"oly" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 4, 10:57 pm, "Honus" . wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

ups.com...

snip

Should you not make any money when you resell a modern U.S. coin
priced at this level, what was the point?

Spoken like a true non-collector.

My response spoken like a devil's advocate. But IF you are a
collector, then why isn't an XF 1955 double die good enough and you
can keep the other $12,000 for the pursuit of other better pieces?
Like a Charles II five guineas?

An XF 1955 would be just fine for me, but my buddy might have to limit his
goal to a F-VF. A wealthy neighbor could easily absorb a $12,000 DDO in
his collection, especially if he's through making payments on his $1.4
million home and $250,000 yacht. I would rather have a MS64RD 1955 DDO than
its equivalent in common gold bullion coins. You apparently would opt for
the gold. What's the big deal? I have nothing against a Charles II five
guineas, but have absolutely no particular interest in owning one at a price
exceeding its bullion value. Some people enjoy spending $12,000 on a
vacation. Others insist on getting something tangible for their $12,000.


A date and mint set of Lincoln pennies is drivel for teething
numismatic babies.

Not according to the US Dept of Health.

"oly" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 5, 5:20 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jul 5, 4:40 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

[massive dialogue mercifully snipped]





I've never inventoried the participants in RCC, but I would guess that
there
are well over a hundred people who outwardly express their individual
opinions on a fairly regular basis. In my somewhat limited experience
here
(only 3+ years) I have yet to find two identical opinions. RCC is not
a
monolith with a published manifesto of any kind, thus all opinions can
be
considered as dissenting opinions, including the one I am expressing
in
this
post. Not everyone, perhaps very few or even possibly no one, will
care
for
it. I may well be plonked, silently or noisily, for expressing it. I
accept that risk.

That said, anyone who has studied the coin "market" over the past
couple
centuries can point to periods of both boom and bust. These periods
are
not
totally independent of what the economy in general is doing. Of
course,
there is risk in buying the coin in question here, just as there is
risk
in
buying anything. There is never an assurance that what we buy today
can
be
sold tomorrow for what we paid for it, much less a profit. In fact,
the
most common reality is that the monetized value of just about
everything
we
buy declines to a fraction of the selling price, and it declines
immediately. But if I purchase the object coin today, and its "book"
value
suddenly declines to a tenth of what I paid for it, I will not have
lost
any
money except on paper. Instead, if I am in this hobby with an eye
toward
investment, I am taking the risk that I will outlive the market
decline
and
come out ahead of the game, perhaps years down the road. Fifty-five
doubled
dies are not a renewable resource such as were tulips in 1600s
Holland.
Thus market history gives me pretty good odds for success.

And what if I fail to outlive the market decline? What if the market
never
recovers? What if I become destitute through individual or general
economic
depression and am forced to liquidate at whatever price level? Have I
not
had custody of a coin to enjoy for its own sake in the meantime? We
can
talk of individual taste, which boils down again to individual
opinion,
but
that's what collecting is all about, and, in fact, that's what life is
all
about.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What, pray tell, enjoyment is there in paying $13,400 for a Lincoln
Cent?

The only enjoyment would be when you eventually sold it to a greater
fool for more money than you paid for it.

Period.

The enjoyment is not in the paying, it is in the owning. And that
enjoyment
can last for a long time. At least it has for me, with regard to the
things
I own. It's an approach to collecting that I have chosen out of the many
possible approaches. My approach is right for me. Your approach is
right
for you. There are no bad guys here.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, if someone needs a 1955 double die, you can accomplish that for
about one-tenth of the price that Ira has posited.

And you can probably get a coin without a honking big tin spot on
it.

Save 90%!!!

Of course, you might not get that wonderful 7 YEAR OLD PLASTIC!

But you'll have much less to worry about!

Agreed on all points except the one about worrying. I navigate numismatics
with a 0% worry factor. But then, that's just me.

James

"oly" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 4, 9:56 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Jul 4, 7:03 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Jul 4, 5:13 pm, Ira wrote:
oly wrote:
On Jul 4, 10:49 am, Ira wrote:
Steve wrote:

Nice coin Ira, and certainly worth 5 digit money; but if it
weren't
for the
doubling I think the graders would have seen the evidence of
circulation.
This is a good example of maket grading. Thanks for sharing
and
I
wish you
the best with the auction - that coin would fit in nicely
with a
high end
set.

Steve

I see no evidence of wear on that coin, Steve. As all uncs and
circs
wre pulled out of the channels of commerce, you might say that
ALL
show some circulation, but the criteria is
whether one can see wear under 7X magnification. If not, all
grading
services will designate as uncirculated. That's trueof all
coins,
not
justLincoln cents. I've handled dozens of AU-55/58s of this
date
as
well as uncs, and the
AU-58s all show clear rub on cheek and jawbone, the highest
points
of
a Lincoln Cent. This doesn'tshow that rub.I don't believe the
doubling
has anything to do with the designation of uncirculated.

Ira

That's impeccable logic (at least to your cult members' level of
ability to reason), but the coin is flawed with a bad spot. This
type
of spot can easily get worse with the passage of time.

oly

Some spots Do get worse with time, but the spot has to be active.
This
spot is flat and black, not green as you have posited,
and has no concentric ring around it. It is not active. If the coin
is
kept in a cool dry environment and partiicularly if kept inan
Intercept Shield capsule, it will be stable.
I have some cents with spots like that in a safe deposit boxes at
the
bank with an Intercept Shield capsule around the slab and in 7
years,
as long as Intercept Shiled has been marketed,
there have been no changes in the spot s nor have any new ones
presented themselves.

In addition, there have been no color changes in any of my red
Lincolns stored in the sme way. So as usual,
you know little of what you expound. It is amusing to see you make
a
fool of yourself, Olson. I will give this, however. You apparently
know and understand French, while I do not. So you DIo have some
advantage in repling to Mr. Jaggers in a language I don't
understand.
Knock yourself out.

Ira- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

O.K. Oz, that's your expert OPINION on the pesky tin spot on that
Lincon Cent (and it looks blue-green in your photograph); and I
freely
acknowledge your expertise; but why should anybody punt $13,400 to
find out if you're right? Thirteen thousand, four hundred dollars.
Fair amount of dough.

After all, it's just a damn penny, three grams of copper. A bronze
minor coin that is less than sixty years old. Really, what's the
point? Don't the downside risks far (far far far far far far)
exceed
the upside potential?

If a dyed-in-the-wool U.S. collector has to have a '55 double die,
why
wouldn't a brown strict extra fine, WITHOUT TIN SPOT, do just as
well? After you've bought that XF, the remainder of the cash
(probably $12,000 or more) could buy ten rather nice Saints in the
indispensible PCGS slabs, around a month of travel in Europe mostly
staying in three-star hotels and when you get home, some additional
good books for one's library.

Or you could just buy the XF, then add to some stuff to your pantry
and finally stash the remainder of ten thousand or more in the good
old woolen sock.

Why are you preaching to the coin's seller when your bitch seems to be
with
all those foolish eager buyers waiting in the wings?

Bruce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Because Ira threw down a gauntlet with just how he first entitled this
thread.

And because, sometimes, irreverance is a wonderful and valuable tool.

Hmmm. Seemed like a gentle dig to me, considering how you badmouthed
some
of the high value coins in his auctions in the past. "Throwing down a
gauntlet" sounds like an extreme interpretation, but then I'm not you.

Bruce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, I was dissed and the old geezer who did it can't handle the
backchat. Or any backchat it seems. I guess that's what happens when
you've been at the center of a "cult of personality" for a while.

If this is all it takes to "diss" you, you've got an eye-opener of a life
ahead of you.


We have had an exceptionally long period of incredibly easy credit in
the U.S.A. which seems to be turning rapidly. The risks in paying
$13,400 for a Lincoln cent that is less than 60 years old seem very
high. If the RCC can handle a dissenting opinion, how is it gonna
handle a declining market?

Fifty-sixty years is plenty of time to establish a true value. Experts
assess the true "value" of our former presidents in much less time. The
risks of spending $13,400 on a collectible has no direct bearing on its age.
What do you know of the price history of this particular coin that makes you
feel like an investment strategist? I would like to have the 1955 T-Bird I
could have bought new for $3,000 and for which the market has a good handle
on its investment potential fifty years later.

Since when does "the RCC" handle market fluctuations collectively? I think
you're getting way over your head in this discussion.

Bruce

"oly" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 5, 4:40 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


What, pray tell, enjoyment is there in paying $13,400 for a Lincoln
Cent?

With a statement like that, you have pretty much established your motives
here for any who still had doubt.


The only enjoyment would be when you eventually sold it to a greater
fool for more money than you paid for it.

Sort of like squished pennies?