PING Jim Higgins ( Mesembria In Thrace)

gogu wrote:
Maybe but I was trying to clarify the connection between the "New Mesembria"
and the ancient one(s).

Ah, so.

But I somehow doubt that the "Bulgarian" Mesembria is the one of the coins
because I found a site where they say the Mesembria in the Greek Thrace have
cut these coins.
I am sorry I didn't bookmark the site...

Both Thracian towns named Mesembria produced coins. The town on the
Black Sea produced several types while the town on the Aegean perhaps
only one. (Refer to my previous post for descriptions.)


~Anka

? "Anka" ?????? ??? ??????
oups.com...

gogu wrote:
Maybe but I was trying to clarify the connection between the "New
Mesembria"
and the ancient one(s).

Ah, so.

But I somehow doubt that the "Bulgarian" Mesembria is the one of the
coins
because I found a site where they say the Mesembria in the Greek Thrace
have
cut these coins.
I am sorry I didn't bookmark the site...

Both Thracian towns named Mesembria produced coins. The town on the
Black Sea produced several types while the town on the Aegean perhaps
only one. (Refer to my previous post for descriptions.)

I am not an ancient coins collector so I'll take your word on that.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html



~Anka

"gogu" wrote in message
...
Ï "gogu" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Ï "Ed Hendricks" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
gogu wrote:

Then still in Greece...
So it's strange that those Greek refuges from Eastern Thrace (under
Turkey today) came from a city named ... Mesembria!
Is it possible there was also a city called Mesembria but out of the
geographical area called Mesembria?...


I'm getting confused. :-) I have always thought of Mesembria as a city
only. I know nothing of a "geographical area" called Mesembria.

I thought just like you but obviously I must investigate it a bit more.
Let's see if I can find something during this weekend, I'll be out for a
wedding and one of the families is from ... New Mesembria!
I hope I'll have some more details Monday.


OK, I am back and I have some answers from people actually living in New
Mesembria..
Well, it seems that my explanation about everything "New ... something" in
Greece coming from an homonymous city in today's Turkey is accurate in 99%
of the cases
but there is still 1% remaining and that's exactly the case of Mesembria
and
New Mesembria!
The New Mesembria is *not* at all near the old setlement of Mesembria but
it's actually in the Prefecture of Thessaloniki!
The ancient city of Mesembria lies in the Evros prefecture (near the shore
and near the old Egnatia Street), the last Greek prefecture (county)
before
Turkey.
The only geographical reference I found was as "Plains of Mesembria" and
never as an administrative entity/theme or other...
So the explanation Ed gave originally seems to be correct!

PS
Jim, I found a quite good map of the ancient Mesembria, I am going to
post it at the photo group.

-------------
An earlier Thracian settlement, perhaps named Mesembria, existed before
the
Greek city of Zone was founded as a colony of Samothrace in the late 7th
century BC.
Two contiguous enceintes have been excavated: the W which ascends as far
as
the acropolis, and the E which is earlier and lower down. At their SW end
the so-called 'walled settlement', a quarter with separate fortification
and
building insulae of houses, workshops and shops, in accordance with the
Hippodamian system (phases from 5th to 2nd century BC), was discovered. In
the SE part of the W enceinte are foundations of a sanctuary of Demeter
(4th
century BC). Close to the E enceinte are architectural remains of the
temple
of Apollo (6th and 5th centuries BC) incorporated in a larger building
complex with central court and stoa.

The city's cemeteries extend to the W. Zone was abandoned after the 6th
century AD.
At the site of Kakliki there are foundations of buildings and marble
reliefs
of the Early Christian period. At Dikella, 2 km E of modern Mesemvria,
Early
Christian reliefs have been found.
Finds are exhibited in the Komotini Archaeological Museum.
--------------

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html




Which photo group? Link? Or is the link in your sig at the bottom?

Ï "Jim Higgins" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...

"gogu" wrote in message
...
Ï "gogu" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Ï "Ed Hendricks" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
gogu wrote:

Then still in Greece...
So it's strange that those Greek refuges from Eastern Thrace (under
Turkey today) came from a city named ... Mesembria!
Is it possible there was also a city called Mesembria but out of the
geographical area called Mesembria?...


I'm getting confused. :-) I have always thought of Mesembria as a city
only. I know nothing of a "geographical area" called Mesembria.

I thought just like you but obviously I must investigate it a bit more.
Let's see if I can find something during this weekend, I'll be out for a
wedding and one of the families is from ... New Mesembria!
I hope I'll have some more details Monday.


OK, I am back and I have some answers from people actually living in New
Mesembria..
Well, it seems that my explanation about everything "New ... something"
in
Greece coming from an homonymous city in today's Turkey is accurate in
99% of the cases
but there is still 1% remaining and that's exactly the case of Mesembria
and
New Mesembria!
The New Mesembria is *not* at all near the old setlement of Mesembria but
it's actually in the Prefecture of Thessaloniki!
The ancient city of Mesembria lies in the Evros prefecture (near the
shore
and near the old Egnatia Street), the last Greek prefecture (county)
before
Turkey.
The only geographical reference I found was as "Plains of Mesembria" and
never as an administrative entity/theme or other...
So the explanation Ed gave originally seems to be correct!

PS
Jim, I found a quite good map of the ancient Mesembria, I am going to
post it at the photo group.

-------------
An earlier Thracian settlement, perhaps named Mesembria, existed before
the
Greek city of Zone was founded as a colony of Samothrace in the late 7th
century BC.
Two contiguous enceintes have been excavated: the W which ascends as far
as
the acropolis, and the E which is earlier and lower down. At their SW end
the so-called 'walled settlement', a quarter with separate fortification
and
building insulae of houses, workshops and shops, in accordance with the
Hippodamian system (phases from 5th to 2nd century BC), was discovered.
In
the SE part of the W enceinte are foundations of a sanctuary of Demeter
(4th
century BC). Close to the E enceinte are architectural remains of the
temple
of Apollo (6th and 5th centuries BC) incorporated in a larger building
complex with central court and stoa.

The city's cemeteries extend to the W. Zone was abandoned after the 6th
century AD.
At the site of Kakliki there are foundations of buildings and marble
reliefs
of the Early Christian period. At Dikella, 2 km E of modern Mesemvria,
Early
Christian reliefs have been found.
Finds are exhibited in the Komotini Archaeological Museum.
--------------


Which photo group? Link? Or is the link in your sig at the bottom?

a.b.p.n!
The name of Mesembria in Greek is the lowest in the sea in blue letters,
about the middle of the picture.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

gogu wrote:

Well, I can only say that I remember I've seen in Italy a film where Caruso
was named as the last castrato.
If the film was wrong then I am also wrong.


While Enrico did use falsetto on occasion, he was definitely not in the
castrato range.

;-)

Besides, he had four (five?) sons!

~Anka

? "Anka" ?????? ??? ??????
oups.com...

gogu wrote:

Well, I can only say that I remember I've seen in Italy a film where
Caruso
was named as the last castrato.
If the film was wrong then I am also wrong.


While Enrico did use falsetto on occasion, he was definitely not in the
castrato range.

;-)

Besides, he had four (five?) sons!

I don't know, as I said the only info I had was from that old Italian
documentary, maybe I am confusing names.
If you say he had children then you must be right about Moreschi:-)

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

~Anka

"gogu" wrote in message
...
Ï "Jim Higgins" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...

"gogu" wrote in message
...
Ï "gogu" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Ï "Ed Hendricks" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
gogu wrote:

Then still in Greece...
So it's strange that those Greek refuges from Eastern Thrace (under
Turkey today) came from a city named ... Mesembria!
Is it possible there was also a city called Mesembria but out of the
geographical area called Mesembria?...


I'm getting confused. :-) I have always thought of Mesembria as a
city
only. I know nothing of a "geographical area" called Mesembria.

I thought just like you but obviously I must investigate it a bit more.
Let's see if I can find something during this weekend, I'll be out for
a
wedding and one of the families is from ... New Mesembria!
I hope I'll have some more details Monday.


OK, I am back and I have some answers from people actually living in New
Mesembria..
Well, it seems that my explanation about everything "New ... something"
in
Greece coming from an homonymous city in today's Turkey is accurate in
99% of the cases
but there is still 1% remaining and that's exactly the case of Mesembria
and
New Mesembria!
The New Mesembria is *not* at all near the old setlement of Mesembria
but
it's actually in the Prefecture of Thessaloniki!
The ancient city of Mesembria lies in the Evros prefecture (near the
shore
and near the old Egnatia Street), the last Greek prefecture (county)
before
Turkey.
The only geographical reference I found was as "Plains of Mesembria" and
never as an administrative entity/theme or other...
So the explanation Ed gave originally seems to be correct!

PS
Jim, I found a quite good map of the ancient Mesembria, I am going to
post it at the photo group.

-------------
An earlier Thracian settlement, perhaps named Mesembria, existed before
the
Greek city of Zone was founded as a colony of Samothrace in the late 7th
century BC.
Two contiguous enceintes have been excavated: the W which ascends as far
as
the acropolis, and the E which is earlier and lower down. At their SW
end
the so-called 'walled settlement', a quarter with separate fortification
and
building insulae of houses, workshops and shops, in accordance with the
Hippodamian system (phases from 5th to 2nd century BC), was discovered.
In
the SE part of the W enceinte are foundations of a sanctuary of Demeter
(4th
century BC). Close to the E enceinte are architectural remains of the
temple
of Apollo (6th and 5th centuries BC) incorporated in a larger building
complex with central court and stoa.

The city's cemeteries extend to the W. Zone was abandoned after the 6th
century AD.
At the site of Kakliki there are foundations of buildings and marble
reliefs
of the Early Christian period. At Dikella, 2 km E of modern Mesemvria,
Early
Christian reliefs have been found.
Finds are exhibited in the Komotini Archaeological Museum.
--------------


Which photo group? Link? Or is the link in your sig at the bottom?

a.b.p.n!
The name of Mesembria in Greek is the lowest in the sea in blue letters,
about the middle of the picture.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


Got it. Thanks to you and the others in this Gogu, I appreciate the help
and the information mine.

gogu wrote:

I don't know, as I said the only info I had was from that old Italian
documentary, maybe I am confusing names.
If you say he had children then you must be right about Moreschi:-)


Only Mrs. Caruso knows for sure. ;-)

I have two coins from Mesembria. I always assumed that they were from
the town on the Black Sea, but now I'm not so sure. More research is
needed. To wildwinds.com I shall go...

http://members.aol.com:/ankaaz/mesembriaeux.jpg

http://members.aol.com:/ankaaz/private/mesembria.jpg

I hope you can see these. Some non-AOLers may have problems.
Apologies in advance.


~Anka

"Anka" wrote in message
ups.com...

gogu wrote:

I don't know, as I said the only info I had was from that old Italian
documentary, maybe I am confusing names.
If you say he had children then you must be right about Moreschi:-)


Only Mrs. Caruso knows for sure. ;-)

I have two coins from Mesembria. I always assumed that they were from
the town on the Black Sea, but now I'm not so sure. More research is
needed. To wildwinds.com I shall go...

http://members.aol.com:/ankaaz/mesembriaeux.jpg

http://members.aol.com:/ankaaz/private/mesembria.jpg

I hope you can see these. Some non-AOLers may have problems.
Apologies in advance.


~Anka


I decided to check Wildwinds too and I think the dealer had a typo in the
attribution "David Sear, Greek coins and their values, Vol. 1, p. 166, 1673.
/3.01 g.". SG1673 says it is an AR diobol but 1675 says an AE17 and it
certainly isn't AR. I really overlooked doing the obvious this time. Duh!

Now to rewrite the pages describing the area and times for my little coin
with new info.

Anka wrote:
gogu wrote:

I don't know, as I said the only info I had was from that old Italian
documentary, maybe I am confusing names.
If you say he had children then you must be right about Moreschi:-)


Only Mrs. Caruso knows for sure. ;-)

I have two coins from Mesembria. I always assumed that they were from
the town on the Black Sea, but now I'm not so sure. More research is
needed. To wildwinds.com I shall go...

http://members.aol.com:/ankaaz/mesembriaeux.jpg

http://members.aol.com:/ankaaz/private/mesembria.jpg

I hope you can see these. Some non-AOLers may have problems.
Apologies in advance.


~Anka


Had no trouble viewing your coins, Anka.

I have three......none of them high quality examples, but I find them
interesting. As well worn as mine are, one wonders whose hands might have
caused the wear. Such history!

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2...autonomous.jpg
Thrace. Mesembria. Autonomous coinage. AE 21 mm. 450-350 BC. Obverse:
Diademed female head right. Reverse: Athena walking left, holding spear and
shield. 5.9 g.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3...sembria2hu.jpg
Thrace. Mesembria. Autonomous AE 17 mm. 450-350 BC. Obverse: Crested helmet.
Reverse: META within wheel. 4.8 g.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3...aathena3mk.jpg
Mesembria in Thrace, AE 19mm, 450-350 BC. Obv.: Diademed female head. Rev.:
Athena Alkidemos adv. l., brandishing spear and holding shield, Legend in
Greek on both sides of Athena: METAM/BRIAON Ref.: D. Sear, Greek coins and
their values, Vol. 1, p. 166,1676 /4.90 g.


--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks