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#21
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On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 18:12:07 +0300, "gogu"
wrote: ? "Padraic Brown" ?????? ??? ?????? .. . On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:04:28 +0300, "gogu" wrote: One euro is one euro, regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill. Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the dollar bills...In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-) Actually, it μs stupid. :-) As Jesus said: "you said it" ;-))) Americans don't like dollar coins because they are a nuisance. So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro coins ?... Because Europeans have had a long history of coind in denominations at or _above_ the €1.oo level! I think I mentioned that Spain's smallest circulating note was worth about €8 or thereabouts. Britains smallest note is worth about the same. The US's smallest note is worth LESS than a euro! My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-) Change the coins for notes, or spend the coins. There's not enough of them to really make a dent, even for those of us who would want to use them. Commerce refuses to actually use them, despite banks who have "Got golden dollars" posters and Wal Mart 'promotions' when the thing was first introduced. They're a nuisance because there is still the more familiar ragbuck in common use and is numerically FAR more numerous than the coins. ! That's what I said about the old European currencies ! We all are used with our "old" money, so... Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a *totally* new one like the euro !... I never said anything about "being used to" the ragbuck -- it's a matter of numerical superiority and ubiquity in the cash stream. Very few people are confused by dollar coins -- in other words, Americans are quite "used to" them! If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got. Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for the older people to accustom with the new currency. I don't see something unusual to this... I don't either -- they should be quite used to it! Anyway, once you lot "get over it", get through your grieving process, you'll have no problem thinking in euros. If people are having trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there. Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin ?... Been addressed here lots of times. Americans dσ like the dollar coin My experience from a couple of threads here and from articles is different; Americans dislike the dollar coin but they use it because they can't refuse it. A "couple of threads" indeed have featured disgruntled Americans who drag out the same old arguments (coins are "too heavy", "mistaken for a quarter", etc). The vast majority of posts and threads regarding the use of dollar coins in the US have been positive or at least neutral. -- very rare indeed is the experience where people actually DISlike the dollar coin. We don't really "prefer" to use the dollar note -- it's simply the only viable choice we have at present, unless we specifically hunt down and seek out dollar coins. And anyway, we're not using a new currency system! I think his point is how would a ?1.oo note help the Greeks any more than a ?1.oo coin when the whole system is all new? I have explained it how. I guess it didn't register... But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the Greeks are asking for a euro note... Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low bills in circulation? Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting about "stupid" Italians... I think he mentioned Italy. His quote is just above mine here, no Italy. Maybe in another paragraph. Probably so. I recall someone mentioning Italy. Spain had small denominations quite like Greece. Smallest peseta note denomination (as of 10 years ago when I was there) was 1000. They had replaced the 200 and 500 pta notes with coins by then -- the equivalent of about ?2 and ?5 -- even better than present system, which offers a ?5 note rather than a coin. I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)... Well, how would a one euro note help you come to grips with the new system in a way that the present one euro coin can't? The point is not that the euro note will help me the way you say, it will just make people "feel" better the value of the money ! ??? OK, whatever! Speaking as one of those reviled Merkins, I had absolutely no difficulty with going from US$ to Spanish pesetas. I had no choice. And I have lived for years abroad, so I never had a problem with any foreign currency. Good! But here we are not talking about me and you, we are talking about entire countries, with many older persons... They'll get used to it, too. I guess the best thing you lot in general can do is 1) suck it up and 2) get over it. The drachma is gone, along with the peseta and lira. Stop thinking in terms of drachmas and you'll be perfectly at home with euros in about a week. ??? Who said that I believe to a come back ?! No one I am aware of, why? I know that euro is here to stay, so I don't understand you above quote... I was jut talking about how people feel generally, not me ! Exactly. I'm not necessarily addressing you _personally_, just you as a representative from Greece! A nice weekend to you, too... Same! Padraic. la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu. |
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#22
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Dik T. Winter wrote:
I never said that *all* older persons do want that Dik ;-) You said, explicitly, *every* older person in euroland. Wrong - he wrote that he *believes* that every older person, etc. ;-) Actually I do not think that it is a question of age - somebody who is 60 or 70 may well appreciate the currency union while a person is his 20s or her 30s may be against it. I for one, somewhere in between age wise, still think that the common currency has, all in all, a positive effect. On the other hand, well, I also believed that it would help building a more closely integrated Europe since a common currency will not work in the long run without further harmonization. And due to recent developments in the European Union I do not believe any longer that EUrope is actually willing to move on in that regard. Will be interesting to see how long the euro can "survive" under these conditions ... Christian |
#23
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Padraic Brown wrote:
Probably so. I recall someone mentioning Italy. The article referred to in the original message actually does not mention Italy. In my replies, for example, I did/do because it is usually "voices" from the Greek and Italian governments that demand such low value notes, regardless of whether people elsewhere in Euroland want such rag euros ... Christian |
#24
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? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ??????
d... gogu wrote: Sure, and others blame the European Union for the effects of globalization, Well, that's stupid ! Agreed. But people sometimes prefer stupid theories over more complex explanations g. Very true... At this point and for the shake of the truth, let's say that this was not an *official* demand from the Greek government but just an idea of a minister... Of course any minister is free to make such suggestions - and Mr Sioufas has done that numerous times in the past weeks/months, but it would have been helpful to read what the position of the Greek government is in that regard. I don't think that the Minister of Finance or the PM would agree with him... No serious politician would ask for such a stupid thing ! What Mr.. Sioufas is doing I am calling it "populism"... When two ministers from the Italian populist and anti-EU party "Lega Nord", Mr Maroni and Mr Calderoli, recently even suggested replacing the euro with a national currency in Italy, Mr Berlusconi's quick response was a No. Well, Karamanlis is a person of few words, so everybody understands that his silence is translated to a sound "Mr. Sioufas go and put your head under running water" ;-) The comment was so stupid that the PM or the MF didn't even bother to answer... The river is going only one way and it never turns back (at least naturally...). Well, I am sure that somebody like Berlusconi will change his mind quickly once he sees an opportunity of winning elections by bashing EUrope ;-) But at least we now know that the position of the Lega Nord is not shared by the other coalition parties. True. Maybe it would help if GR and IT issued such rag euros themselves, which would then (just as the ¤5, ¤10, etc. collector coins) be legal tender in the issuing country only? I disagree. The euro system must be the same along whole euroland. That is what I would have said too. But the Dutch 5 euro coins or the German 10 euro pieces, for example, are collector coins which can be had at face value. Oh come on Christian, that's over-stretched ;-) Of course they are "legal tender" but how many people have you seen using them ?! Thus they (theoretically g) circulate but in the issuing country only. If a similar deal could be made regarding low value notes, that could address Mr Sioufas's concerns ... Mr. Sioufas is a bozo IMHO ;-) -- E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi puttane! F.d.A Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html Christian |
#25
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Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
... In article "gogu" writes: ... Americans don't like dollar coins because they are a nuisance. So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro coins ?... My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-) I do not feel a nuisance at all. Currently I have exactly three coins in my purse (1 euro, 50 cent and 20 cent). (Yes, I am using a purse that contains all my money, it is about the size of a small key holder, and sits perfectly well in my pocket. No loose change in my pockets.) I don't use a purse so my pockets feel quite uncomfortable with all those change. Some times I have 12 or even 15 euros in coins in my pockets ! Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a *totally* new one like the euro !... Consider what happened in the UK when they were going decimal (1970 I think). I have seen it from close quarters. Not the same thing. Pound it was, pound remained. They've just turned to the decimal. The euro is a totally new currency for every European in the euroland. If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got. Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for the older people to accustom with the new currency. I don't see something unusual to this... I see something unusual in this in the Greek and Italian government requiring small denomination notes. Matter of opinions or scarce knowledge of the reality in those countries. It happened to me to not understand a certain thing for a certain country, but when I went there and lived for a little time I understood their point of view... But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the Greeks are asking for a euro note... No, the Greek and the Italian. Then please show me such an *official* demand from the respective *governments* ! I do not think that the Dutch, German, or whatever would appreciate the introduction of a Euro note. I've read that they'd do but this is newspaper talk... rgrds -- E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi puttane! F.d.A Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
#26
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? "Padraic Brown" ?????? ??? ??????
... On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 18:12:07 +0300, "gogu" wrote: My experience from a couple of threads here and from articles is different; Americans dislike the dollar coin but they use it because they can't refuse it. A "couple of threads" indeed have featured disgruntled Americans who drag out the same old arguments (coins are "too heavy", "mistaken for a quarter", etc). Same here. Thank you for proving my point that no only Europeans but also many Americans are not accustomed with the dollar coin. :-) The vast majority of posts and threads regarding the use of dollar coins in the US have been positive or at least neutral. I remember reading on-line that the majority of the Americans are negative to the dollar coins and that's why the US Mint did a huge campaign to make people "trust" the dollar coin and start using it. Am I wrong ? The point is not that the euro note will help me the way you say, it will just make people "feel" better the value of the money ! ??? OK, whatever! I am just reporting to you what people opposing the euro are saying. And the truth is that we have somehow lost the notion of the value with the euro: most of us are ashamed to leave a euro coin for a tip in a restaurant but if we realize this is 340,75 drachmas -more than we let before euro- then you can understand my above quote. A paper euro would make the 1 euro "feel" more valuable. But here we are not talking about me and you, we are talking about entire countries, with many older persons... They'll get used to it, too. Sure they'll get used, maybe after they die ;-) I know that euro is here to stay, so I don't understand you above quote... I was jut talking about how people feel generally, not me ! Exactly. I'm not necessarily addressing you _personally_, just you as a representative from Greece! LOL That would be too much :-) rgrds -- E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi puttane! F.d.A Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html |
#27
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Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
... In article "gogu" writes: Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα ... In article "gogu" writes: ... So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans but -I believe- every older person in euroland. I think I figure in the group of older persons. No, I do not want back the old currency. I never said that *all* older persons do want that Dik ;-) You said, explicitly, *every* older person in euroland. I said that I *believe" that every older person ... etc, etc, etc... But if you want it that way I have no problem to say that I stand corrected :-))) Let's say that it's better this way: "the vast majority" ... etc, etc, etc. rgrds -- E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi puttane! F.d.A Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
#28
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In article "gogu" writes:
? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ?????? d... .... That is what I would have said too. But the Dutch 5 euro coins or the German 10 euro pieces, for example, are collector coins which can be had at face value. Oh come on Christian, that's over-stretched ;-) Of course they are "legal tender" but how many people have you seen using them ?! You might be surprised in some time. Previously in the Netherlands 10 Gulden commemorative coins were issued that could be bought at face value, and were legal tender. They did not normally circulate, nevertheless, the first such coins I found came from circulation. (It helped of course that I had at that time a friend who managed his shop.) Some people buy these coins at face with the expectation that the value will increase. When, after a number of years, they find that is false, they will spend them. -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
#29
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In article "gogu" writes:
Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα ... .... I do not feel a nuisance at all. Currently I have exactly three coins in my purse (1 euro, 50 cent and 20 cent). (Yes, I am using a purse that contains all my money, it is about the size of a small key holder, and sits perfectly well in my pocket. No loose change in my pockets.) I don't use a purse so my pockets feel quite uncomfortable with all those change. Some times I have 12 or even 15 euros in coins in my pockets ! Spend them. Currently I have about 4 euros in coins. It ranges between 10 cent and 5 euro, or something like that. Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a *totally* new one like the euro !... Consider what happened in the UK when they were going decimal (1970 I think). I have seen it from close quarters. Not the same thing. Pound it was, pound remained. Only for paper money. *All* coins were subsequently changed. (Of course, the new 50p, 10p and 5p coins retained their value, as did the equivalent florin and shilling, but even that was much shorter than was common, as the size was subsequently reduced for all three. Also the sixpence retained its value during some time, but not very long. All other coins had no value anymore.) They've just turned to the decimal. The euro is a totally new currency for every European in the euroland. Well, so was the decimal pound in the UK. But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the Greeks are asking for a euro note... No, the Greek and the Italian. Then please show me such an *official* demand from the respective *governments* ! Show me a demand from some other country than Greece, Italy (and for some time Austria). I do not think that the Dutch, German, or whatever would appreciate the introduction of a Euro note. I've read that they'd do but this is newspaper talk... Well, I do think that at least the Dutch or German people would not appreciate it. At least, I have never read anyone supporting it. It would be strange when the Dutch are accustomed to a smallest note of 10 Gulden (about 5 Euro) since the 80s. -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
#30
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Ο "Dik T. Winter" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
... In article "gogu" writes: ? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ?????? d... ... That is what I would have said too. But the Dutch 5 euro coins or the German 10 euro pieces, for example, are collector coins which can be had at face value. Oh come on Christian, that's over-stretched ;-) Of course they are "legal tender" but how many people have you seen using them ?! You might be surprised in some time. Previously in the Netherlands 10 Gulden commemorative coins were issued that could be bought at face value, and were legal tender. They did not normally circulate, nevertheless, the first such coins I found came from circulation. (It helped of course that I had at that time a friend who managed his shop.) Some people buy these coins at face with the expectation that the value will increase. When, after a number of years, they find that is false, they will spend them. I agree with you. But I still haven't seen someone using such silver coins in everyday's transactions. Also agree that they will never increase in value. With the help of a good friend from Holland I am buying the German 10 euro coins at face value but I know they will never increase in value, I just like them ;-) rgrds -- E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi puttane! F.d.A Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
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