1923 with metal chunk

I have just taken a picture of a 1923 Standing Liberty Quarter with
what appears to be a chunk of metal welded onto it, possibly by the
stamping process. A cud would be such a metallic chunk usually
attached to the rim of the coin. Does that term also apply to this
coin? Please look at it at:

http://community.webshots.com/album/548897089iecZRy

and give your opinion. BTW, with coin in hand, what appears to be a
pit near the star is actually another elevated piece of metal welded
onto the coin, as well as a smaller chunk near the bottom of Liberty's
gown.

Thanks for looking, and for your time.

Daniel B. Wheeler

wrote in message
...
I have just taken a picture of a 1923 Standing Liberty Quarter with
what appears to be a chunk of metal welded onto it, possibly by the
stamping process. A cud would be such a metallic chunk usually
attached to the rim of the coin. Does that term also apply to this
coin? Please look at it at:

http://community.webshots.com/album/548897089iecZRy

and give your opinion. BTW, with coin in hand, what appears to be a
pit near the star is actually another elevated piece of metal welded
onto the coin, as well as a smaller chunk near the bottom of Liberty's
gown.

First of all, if that were a die defect, there would likely be many examples
just like it. Cline mentions no such defect. It's possible that there was
a piece of metal trash on the die when the coin was struck, but then one
would have to ask, where did a chunk of silver come from? I'd guess some
sort of tampering.

James

No. A cud is a piece of metal that has broken free
from the die. Usually it's at the rim because that is a
weaker point. One reason being because the outer part
of the die cools faster than the inner part when the die is
hardened and is more brittle. When a piece of metal falls
from the die it leavesa cavity that becomes raise metal on
the coin. It is not "extra" metal because the planchet still
weighs the same regardless of what may be wrong with
the die. It's an extra "area" and the metal that forms it is
stolen from the reverse side. If the cud is large enough
you'll see things missing or flattened or stretched out on
the reverse. Letters or stars and such may disappear
entirely if the cud on the other side is large enough. If there
are no stars or letters or design opposite of the a you
might see an indent in that area.

I can't see anything in the image in your album. It's too small.


wrote in message
...
I have just taken a picture of a 1923 Standing Liberty Quarter with
what appears to be a chunk of metal welded onto it, possibly by the
stamping process. A cud would be such a metallic chunk usually
attached to the rim of the coin. Does that term also apply to this
coin? Please look at it at:

http://community.webshots.com/album/548897089iecZRy

and give your opinion. BTW, with coin in hand, what appears to be a
pit near the star is actually another elevated piece of metal welded
onto the coin, as well as a smaller chunk near the bottom of Liberty's
gown.

Thanks for looking, and for your time.

Daniel B. Wheeler

On Jun 12, 5:17 pm, "Longnine009"
wrote:
No. A cud is a piece of metal that has broken free
from the die. Usually it's at the rim because that is a
weaker point. One reason being because the outer part
of the die cools faster than the inner part when the die is
hardened and is more brittle. When a piece of metal falls
from the die it leavesa cavity that becomes raise metal on
the coin. It is not "extra" metal because the planchet still
weighs the same regardless of what may be wrong with
the die. It's an extra "area" and the metal that forms it is
stolen from the reverse side. If the cud is large enough
you'll see things missing or flattened or stretched out on
the reverse. Letters or stars and such may disappear
entirely if the cud on the other side is large enough. If there
are no stars or letters or design opposite of the a you
might see an indent in that area.

I can't see anything in the image in your album. It's too small.

wrote in message

...

I have just taken a picture of a 1923 Standing Liberty Quarter with
what appears to be a chunk of metal welded onto it, possibly by the
stamping process. A cud would be such a metallic chunk usually
attached to the rim of the coin. Does that term also apply to this
coin? Please look at it at:

http://community.webshots.com/album/548897089iecZRy

and give your opinion. BTW, with coin in hand, what appears to be a
pit near the star is actually another elevated piece of metal welded
onto the coin, as well as a smaller chunk near the bottom of Liberty's
gown.

Thanks for looking, and for your time.

Daniel B. Wheeler

I have just taken a close look at the reverse, and find no areas which
have had a chunk taken out of it. And no obvious location from the
obverse where additional metal may have come from. The metal does
appear to have been added after the original strike, but I have no
idea how that might have been done if not with a second strike to weld
the metal onto the coin. I currently have the coin in a 2x2, and the
raised area pushes out the plastic covering. When I run my thumb over
the area, the additional metal is pretty easy to feel, too.

I have to agree with James that the coin shows some sort of tampering,
or an intentional double strike. But other than the specific blob, I
can't find any evidence of doubling on the coin. The obverse shows no
decreased or weakened areas to my eye. And it makes no sense to me
that a blob of metal higher than the stars would not also affect the
position, shape, or alignment of the stars. Which is why I think the
blob was added after the planchet was originally struck. If someone
intentionally added this bit of metal to the coin, they did a
relatively good job of it, I think. I can see no other obvious damage
to the original coin features, except for that raised crater to the
left of the blob.

I'll try to add a photo of the reverse tomorrow for comparison. Maybe
another photo showing the entire obverse as well. And if you double-
click on the photo, it should enlarge.

Daniel B. Wheeler

On Jun 12, 6:43 pm, "Jim Menning" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I have just taken a picture of a 1923 Standing Liberty Quarter with
what appears to be a chunk of metal welded onto it, possibly by the
stamping process.

Looks like it was added after it had circulated a while, otherwise the areas adjacent
to it wouldn't be worn down.

I agree, Jim. I can't see any purpose in adding the chunk of metal
after the coin was struck originally. But the raised appearance makes
it the highest point on the coin, which may account for the relatively
complete date and detail of the gown.

Daniel B. Wheeler