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light fast but washable ink ?



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 1st 04, 05:58 PM
David
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On 2004-09-30 21:31:30 -0700, no spam said:

David wrote:
On 2004-09-29 21:03:22 -0700, no spam said:


I wouldn't worry too much then - any brand of ink that doesn't
advertise itself as permanent, will probably fit your recycling
concerns. Just pick one that has good light-fastness, and you'll be set.


Exactly my point !

What are the inks out there in blue and red that are considered
lightfast (and possibly bright) ?


Did you read the sunlight tests page at inksampler.com?

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  #12  
Old October 1st 04, 11:04 PM
Garglemonster
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On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 04:07:57 GMT, no spam said:


no If everybody starts using an ink that can never be washed out
no regardless of the chimical used, then my guess is that it will
no be difficult to re-use that paper for recyling.

if everyone starts using such inks (which is doubtful), then the
different colours will tend to turn the batch of recycling gook grey
-- which is pretty much what recycled paper looks like anyway. i
think you're worrying too much.



--


A squid eating DOUGH in a POLYETHYLENE bag is fast and BULBOUS.
  #13  
Old October 2nd 04, 05:29 AM
no spam
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David wrote:

What are the inks out there in blue and red that are considered
lightfast (and possibly bright) ?


Did you read the sunlight tests page at inksampler.com?


I was hopping that there was some consensus on this sort of thing on the
news group. Yes I check, it seems really good for reds, but scary for
blues ! I think I won't be able to find The only brand that has an
excellent rating for blue, locally...


Yves.
----
Yves Dorfsman
http://www.cuug.ab.ca/dorfsmay
http://www.SollerS.ca

  #14  
Old October 2nd 04, 05:31 AM
no spam
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Bluesea wrote:

If you're still set on not using Noodler's, I think your best bet is to
follow David's link to inksampler.com.


Don't get me wrong, I do intend to use Noodler's for specific applications
(art, legal documents, etc...), but would rather something less permanent
for everyday use.

Yves.
----
http://www.cuug.ab.ca/dorfsmay
http://www.SollerS.ca

  #15  
Old October 2nd 04, 06:19 AM
David
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On 2004-10-01 21:29:37 -0700, no spam said:

was hopping that there was some consensus on this sort of thing on the
news group. Yes I check, it seems really good for reds, but scary for
blues ! I think I won't be able to find The only brand that has an
excellent rating for blue, locally...


Blue ink seems not to stand up to sunlight very well in general. You
may end up using black instead if you need lightfastness, since several
common black inks are at least in his "very good" category.

Levenger does sell on the web (levenger.com), and by mail order, if you
want their ink though - shipping might be expensive for just a bottle
of ink, I suppose. Because that ink has so much colour in it, it tends
to clog pens more than other brands. You can't win, it seems!

David

  #16  
Old October 2nd 04, 09:48 AM
Bluesea
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"no spam" wrote in message
news:waq7d.163056$%S.108402@pd7tw2no...
Bluesea wrote:

If you're still set on not using Noodler's, I think your best bet is to
follow David's link to inksampler.com.


Don't get me wrong, I do intend to use Noodler's for specific applications
(art, legal documents, etc...), but would rather something less permanent
for everyday use.


No problem. I meant for this particular issue and by "Noodler's," I meant
the permanent inks, not all the rest, too. Context, y'know.

IOW, we be kewl .

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


  #17  
Old October 5th 04, 02:30 AM
Scaupaug1
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Default


MOST paper destined for recycling has laser print on it. Relatively
permanent, fused ink.


Hot lightbulb beneath document....electromagnet on top....and that "ink" flies
off the page. Forgers know this all too well.
  #18  
Old October 5th 04, 03:07 AM
Scaupaug1
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Lattice and reverse lattice? They are two new types of inks...when mixed they
have properties unlike any others - including unrivaled color fastness when
balanced properly. If you treat both kinds of inks as you would other inks,
and properly care for your pen - rinse them now and then, don't store the ink
for years without rinsing the pen out first....EXACTLY AS THE MANUFACTURERS OF
FOUNTAIN PENS ADVISE... It was a risk to get into ink - given that purists
wanted an ink they could "drink" and that smelled like roses or perfume....but
the practical people desired something to keep our hobby alive. In all
seriousness, I believed the fountain pen as a writing instrument was quietly,
slowly and inevitably - being fundamentally undermined! The most obvious sign
happened to be your average college kid. When I was in college - it was
relatively easy to "convert" professors and students alike to the wonders of
fountain pens. Within the past five years? No chance. First: "Those things
cost too much." Once upon a time a $10 tip-dip, $2 cartridge pen, or $25
admiral with a gold nib solved that concern... However, #2 was devastating:
"Nathan, I know these are nice writers and all...won't fill up landfills,
refill again and again, super smooth, and has a real nice solid gold nib to
resist corrosion until I am 80 years old...BUT the damn ink feathers on EVERY
piece of paper I use in my classes and it is just not ever going to be a daily
user. Sorry."
If you are a pen collector - like it or not...if EVERY college kid rejects
fountain pens...the hobby WILL decline in time. It used to be "Get a nice pen
in their hand for sophomore year and they are a collector during grad school.".
So - lattice inks and anti-feather inks MUST be made available to the public
if our hobby is to survive in my humble opinion. Feathering on recycled papers
and cheaper grades such as newsprint (which is often used for exam
documents/pages and most government forms) has to be countered....and forgers
must be countered with lattice inks. The forger/identity fraud threat was
absolutely killing fountain pens with certain people who were in the habit of
signing contracts and writing terms with certain chain store inks that wash off
documents with 6 to 12 seconds run under tap water....or a few minutes of
bleach. Either they have confidence in the fountain pen, or they will seek out
and use some other instrument!

If you care to throw stones at Noodler's Ink, I hope you at least consider the
alternatives we were facing before it came into being....as a long term hobby.

Lastly, this does not even mention the inks that have NOT been introduced to
the public. Glow in the dark "Nigh****chman's Ink" will not be introduced
because it reacts badly with other manufacturer's inks - if mixed even slightly
with residues from their inks, this particular ink fails in its primary
property (it must glow 100 hours per 1/2 hour charge of sunlight - repeatedly,
and be clearly visible to the naked eye both in the dark and in various
artificial and natural light sources). It is also completely unlike any ink
ever made before, and until it gets long term testing behind it - Noodler's Ink
will not release it. There are members of the public who would cast
dispersions upon such a prototype ink before it was even given a chance...so
I'm not giving them a bottle to do so with until/unless it is immunized. It
is too different - if you saw a bottle (one pictured next to prototype water
based white ink) you would know what I mean.
http://members.aol.com/scaupaug1/glow/whiteGlow.jpg
The Luddites would also seek to besmirch any of the white, pastel, and
pearlized inks (green pearl, true gray pearl, rose pearl are shown in the
following picture - they were made because of their visual effects in visuated
pens...a transparent pen has the appearance of having 1930s pearltex effects -
as well as having true pastel effects on the written page)
http://members.aol.com/scaupaug1/marbled/marbledInk.jpg
- which similarly are in long term testing before they will ever be released
to the public (different feeds, different mixes with other company's inks, as
many variables as possible need to be accounted for - or somebody online
somewhere will say: "My such and such does not like the white ink."...I want to
avoid that!). Perhaps a lack of confidence after realizing how severe the
public can be - but now certainly necessary - as such inks must stand up to
some pretty nasty perpetual critics.

As for washable inks and inks that "you can drink"...if you want dye contents
that low, don't buy Noodler's. Period. Noodler's is going to continue to pack
as much value in dye content and permanence as is possible for a water based
fountain pen ink (with NO salts and NO crystalline acids!)...& with no weak low
dye content washable inks contemplated.... Noodler's will also continue to
make it's black ink (and other lattice inks such as "eternal" and "contract")
as fraud proof as is possible for a fountain pen ink - if you want a weak black
that feathers on recycled paper and newsprint - buy something else! I'm sorry
that it is not possible to please everyone......but the efforts to help the
hobby, and the viability of the fountain pen itself...will continue.

Also...no need to shake! If when the bottle is finished, the bottom looks like
the bottom of a finished 1950s style ink bottle...it's normal. It's not normal
if you add contaminants such as salts to the ink...don't do that! Also, cap
the bottle soon after filling - it is NOT "tap water" that makes the ink...it
is beyond distilled - the most purified one can make with today's technology.
Otherwise the dye contents would be lower ratios due to "other" substances
getting in the way that don't belong in ink anyway. So, if you left the bottle
cap off for a week long vacation - it is OK to replace the lost fluid with tap
water...but in testing tap water is just not as good as distilled. It would be
90% performance instead of 100% performance.


  #19  
Old October 5th 04, 03:51 AM
Scaupaug1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Lattice and reverse lattice? They are two new types of inks...when mixed they
have properties unlike any others - including unrivaled color fastness when
balanced properly. If you treat both kinds of inks as you would other inks,
and properly care for your pen - rinse them now and then, don't store the ink
for years without rinsing the pen out first....EXACTLY AS THE MANUFACTURERS OF
FOUNTAIN PENS ADVISE... It was a risk to get into ink - given that purists
wanted an ink they could "drink" and that smelled like roses or perfume....but
the practical people desired something to keep our hobby alive. In all
seriousness, I believed the fountain pen as a writing instrument was quietly,
slowly and inevitably - being fundamentally undermined! The most obvious sign
happened to be your average college kid. When I was in college - it was
relatively easy to "convert" professors and students alike to the wonders of
fountain pens. Within the past five years? No chance. First: "Those things
cost too much." Once upon a time a $10 tip-dip, $2 cartridge pen, or $25
admiral with a gold nib solved that concern... However, #2 was devastating:
"Nathan, I know these are nice writers and all...won't fill up landfills,
refill again and again, super smooth, and has a real nice solid gold nib to
resist corrosion until I am 80 years old...BUT the damn ink feathers on EVERY
piece of paper I use in my classes and it is just not ever going to be a daily
user. Sorry."
If you are a pen collector - like it or not...if EVERY college kid rejects
fountain pens...the hobby WILL decline in time. It used to be "Get a nice pen
in their hand for sophomore year and they are a collector during grad school.".
So - lattice inks and anti-feather inks MUST be made available to the public
if our hobby is to survive in my humble opinion. Feathering on recycled papers
and cheaper grades such as newsprint (which is often used for exam
documents/pages and most government forms) has to be countered....and forgers
must be countered with lattice inks. The forger/identity fraud threat was
absolutely killing fountain pens with certain people who were in the habit of
signing contracts and writing terms with certain chain store inks that wash off
documents with 6 to 12 seconds run under tap water....or a few minutes of
bleach. Either they have confidence in the fountain pen, or they will seek out
and use some other instrument!

If you care to throw stones at Noodler's Ink, I hope you at least consider the
alternatives we were facing before it came into being....as a long term hobby.

Lastly, this does not even mention the inks that have NOT been introduced to
the public. Glow in the dark "Nigh****chman's Ink" will not be introduced
because it reacts badly with other manufacturer's inks - if mixed even slightly
with residues from their inks, this particular ink fails in its primary
property (it must glow 100 hours per 1/2 hour charge of sunlight - repeatedly,
and be clearly visible to the naked eye both in the dark and in various
artificial and natural light sources). It is also completely unlike any ink
ever made before, and until it gets long term testing behind it - Noodler's Ink
will not release it. There are members of the public who would cast
dispersions upon such a prototype ink before it was even given a chance...so
I'm not giving them a bottle to do so with until/unless it is immunized. It
is too different - if you saw a bottle (one pictured next to prototype water
based white ink) you would know what I mean.
http://members.aol.com/scaupaug1/glow/whiteGlow.jpg
The Luddites would also seek to besmirch any of the white, pastel, and
pearlized inks (green pearl, true gray pearl, rose pearl are shown in the
following picture - they were made because of their visual effects in visuated
pens...a transparent pen has the appearance of having 1930s pearltex effects -
as well as having true pastel effects on the written page)
http://members.aol.com/scaupaug1/marbled/marbledInk.jpg
- which similarly are in long term testing before they will ever be released
to the public (different feeds, different mixes with other company's inks, as
many variables as possible need to be accounted for - or somebody online
somewhere will say: "My such and such does not like the white ink."...I want to
avoid that!). Perhaps a lack of confidence after realizing how severe the
public can be - but now certainly necessary - as such inks must stand up to
some pretty nasty perpetual critics.

As for washable inks and inks that "you can drink"...if you want dye contents
that low, don't buy Noodler's. Noodler's is going to continue to pack as much
value in dye content and permanence as is possible for a water based fountain
pen ink (with NO salts and NO crystalline acids!)...& with no weak low dye
content washable inks contemplated.... Noodler's will also continue to make
it's black ink (and other lattice inks such as "eternal" and "contract") as
fraud proof as is possible for a fountain pen ink - if you want a weak black
that feathers on recycled paper and newsprint - buy something else! I'm sorry
that it is not possible to please everyone......but the efforts to help the
hobby, and the viability of the fountain pen itself...will continue.

Also...no need to shake! If when the bottle is finished, the bottom looks like
the bottom of a finished 1950s style ink bottle...it's normal. It's not normal
if you add contaminants such as salts to the ink...don't do that! Also, cap
the bottle soon after filling - it is NOT "tap water" that makes the ink...it
is beyond distilled - the most purified one can make with today's technology.
Otherwise the dye contents would be lower ratios due to "other" substances
getting in the way that don't belong in ink anyway. So, if you left the bottle
cap off for a week long vacation - it is OK to replace the lost fluid with tap
water...but in testing tap water is just not as good as distilled. It would be
90% performance instead of 100% performance.



  #20  
Old October 5th 04, 09:08 AM
svejk
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Posts: n/a
Default

We're not supposed to shake the ink first? I have always shaken any
small bottle of colored liquid I have been about to use, and then
thumped it down to get enough off the cap to avoid making a bigger
mess than usual. If we accept the principle of "If some is good, then
more is better and even more would be really great' and we note that
all we are really doing with all these neat pens, inks and papers is
just getting pigment onto the page, then that residue left in the
bottle represents a sort of failure. Couldn't I shake it some?

It is true that one shouldn't throw stones at Noodler's Inks. It
accomplishes nothing and gets the stone all messy. It is worthy of
note, however, that the larger bottles that Noodler's employs are
easier to hit.

The glow in the dark ink sounds like just the thing for writing in
dimly lit coffee houses. A new reason to keep those ink windows clear
so the pen can be charged up during the day.

If you are putting us on about the pearlized inks then you are going
to wake up with a very large catfish head in your bed.

What you need are beta testers. I'm sure that there must be some
people who could be persuaded to take on this onerous task for the
good of the cause (shipping address for ink delivery available upon
the slightest of requests). You have tested your inks in Tintenkulis,
haven't you?
 




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