Greatest trade coin of all time

"John Mazor" wrote in message
news:gDIqk.284$Ro1.187@trnddc04...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
John Mazor wrote:
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Doing some research on pieces of eight, from cobs through pillar
dollars to busts, and it strikes me that it has very good claims to
being the greatest trade coin of all time. Curiously, I don't
believe I've seen it referred to that way, in print or online.

"The Spanish milled dollar, valued at 8 reales, and otherwise known
as the Pillar dollar, or piece of eight, has been given a place in
romantic fiction unequalled by any other coin."

- R.S. Yeoman, A Guide Book of United States Coins, 1st (1947)
through 62nd (2009) editions

"Suddenly he swept her up into his tan, brawny arms and gently
nuzzled his dark moustache into the nape of her neck, slowly and
maddeningly working his way up to lick the Spanish milled dollar
hanging by a tiny gold hook from her earlobe where her father, the
numismatist, had placed it shortly before he died of malaria
contracted while searching for the fabled 1804 American dollar
rumored to be cached in a Louisiana swamp..."
Oh, wait, did he mean some other kind of romantic fiction?

LOL! Unfortunately, San Jose State University has already announced its
winner of the 2008 Bulwer-Lytton contest, so you'll have to wait almost a
full year now to claim your prize. 8)

http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/

James

I entered a few of those, gave up after obviously inferior compositions
won out over mine.

Maybe I'll dust off my dictionary of literary clichés and try again.

In this contest the obviously inferior should win.

mk

On Aug 19, 5:10*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

A la rigueur, they are not synonymous, but to the average bear, they are.
8)

Only if you don't know the coins. You can (correctly) call a piece of
eight made in 1670 a piece of eight but not a Spanish milled dollar or
a pillar dollar. You can call a piece of eight made in 1807 a piece of
eight or a Spanish milled dollar but not a pillar dollar. You can call
a piece of eight made in 1741 a piece of eight, a Spanish milled
dollar, or a pillar dollar. The Red Book isn't very clear on this and
is somewhat misleading actually. There are other names too for these
coins. I personally like the Spanish names the best -- macuquina,
columnario, and busto. The Chinese had their own names for these
coins, and I'm sure others too where these coins circulated.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:09:03 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

Reid Goldsborough wrote:
On Aug 19, 5:10 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:13 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Doing some research on pieces of eight, from cobs through pillar
dollars to busts, and it strikes me that it has very good claims
to being the greatest trade coin of all time. Curiously, I don't
believe I've seen it referred to that way, in print or online.

"The Spanish milled dollar, valued at 8 reales, and otherwise known
as the Pillar dollar, or piece of eight, has been given a place in
romantic fiction unequalled by any other coin."

- R.S. Yeoman, A Guide Book of United States Coins, 1st (1947)
through 62nd (2009) editions

James

Thanks. I have the Red Book too, but it makes no mention, including
the above quote, of what I was talking about. It is interesting
though that the Spanish milled dollar is the first coin illustrated
in it. But the three terms -- pillar dollar, Spanish milled dollar,
and piece of eight -- aren't synonymous. The second is more
encompassing than the first, the third more than the first and
second.

A la rigueur, they are not synonymous, but to the average bear, they
are. 8)

Amid all the accounts of how the pieces of eight were cut into
halves, fourths, and eighths, I have never seen any description as
to exactly what mechanism was used to cut them. Were they sheared,
sawed (sawn?), chopped, or what?

James

A hammer and chisel, I'd surmise. Despite being written about widely,
these cut pieces are very rare today. Most were likely melted over the
years for their bullion.

Sounds reasonable, but a guy would think that there would be many survivors.
I don't think I've ever seen one.

I've got some. A couple cut 2r coins. I have one cut 8r. As I recall,
the coin fair in Madrid had a lot of "treasure hunter" / metal
detector hoards: there were various cut coppers in with the mix of
worn coppers, jetons and the odd 19th century bronze 10c coins.
They're certainly out there for the finding.

Padraic

James
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Aug 19, 10:51*pm, Padraic Brown wrote:

I've got some. A couple cut 2r coins. I have one cut 8r. As I recall,
the coin fair in Madrid had a lot of "treasure hunter" / metal
detector hoards: there were various cut coppers in with the mix of
worn coppers, jetons and the odd 19th century bronze 10c coins.
They're certainly out there for the finding.

Interesting. Is the cut eight reales piece Spanish or Spanish-
American? Is there enough detail to determine the date, mint, etc.?

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

On Aug 19, 5:59�pm, wrote:
In article , "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:13 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Doing some research on pieces of eight, from cobs through pillar
dollars to busts, and it strikes me that it has very good claims to
being the greatest trade coin of all time. Curiously, I don't
believe I've seen it referred to that way, in print or online.

"The Spanish milled dollar, valued at 8 reales, and otherwise known
as the Pillar dollar, or piece of eight, has been given a place in
romantic fiction unequalled by any other coin."

- R.S. Yeoman, A Guide Book of United States Coins, 1st (1947)
through 62nd (2009) editions

James

Thanks. I have the Red Book too, but it makes no mention, including
the above quote, of what I was talking about. It is interesting though
that the Spanish milled dollar is the first coin illustrated in it.
But the three terms -- �pillar dollar, Spanish milled dollar, and
piece of eight -- aren't synonymous. The second is more encompassing
than the first, the third more than the first and second.

A la rigueur, they are not synonymous, but to the average bear, they are..
8)

Amid all the accounts of how the pieces of eight were cut into halves,
fourths, and eighths, I have never seen any description as to exactly what
mechanism was used to cut them. �Were they sheared, sawed (sawn?), chopped,
or what?

James

basically, whatever tool was at hand. hatchets and axes were common, knives
and hammers were, too. they were rarely sawn because of metal waste.
very few bits remain.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One 19th-century traveler eyewitness reported that they were "chopped"
by a slave with an axe. (Can look up reference if needed.)

In article , Bob wrote:
On Aug 19, 5:59=EF=BF=BDpm, wrote:
In article , "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at=
]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:13 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Doing some research on pieces of eight, from cobs through pillar
dollars to busts, and it strikes me that it has very good claims to
being the greatest trade coin of all time. Curiously, I don't
believe I've seen it referred to that way, in print or online.

"The Spanish milled dollar, valued at 8 reales, and otherwise known
as the Pillar dollar, or piece of eight, has been given a place in
romantic fiction unequalled by any other coin."

- R.S. Yeoman, A Guide Book of United States Coins, 1st (1947)
through 62nd (2009) editions

James

Thanks. I have the Red Book too, but it makes no mention, including
the above quote, of what I was talking about. It is interesting though
that the Spanish milled dollar is the first coin illustrated in it.
But the three terms -- =EF=BF=BDpillar dollar, Spanish milled dollar, =
and
piece of eight -- aren't synonymous. The second is more encompassing
than the first, the third more than the first and second.

A la rigueur, they are not synonymous, but to the average bear, they are=
..
8)

Amid all the accounts of how the pieces of eight were cut into halves,
fourths, and eighths, I have never seen any description as to exactly wh=
at
mechanism was used to cut them. =EF=BF=BDWere they sheared, sawed (sawn?=
), chopped,
or what?

James

basically, whatever tool was at hand. hatchets and axes were common, kniv=
es
and hammers were, too. they were rarely sawn because of metal waste.
very few bits remain.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One 19th-century traveler eyewitness reported that they were "chopped"
by a slave with an axe. (Can look up reference if needed.)
i've read that, too.

Reid Goldsborough wrote:


The first great trade coin was the ancient Athenian Owl

What about the turtles? Who don't the turtles get any respect?



Greatest trade coin of all time.

I don't know, the Spanish silver always strikes me as more of a great
plunder coin rather than a trade coin.

In article , Jorg Lueke wrote:


Reid Goldsborough wrote:


The first great trade coin was the ancient Athenian Owl

What about the turtles? Who don't the turtles get any respect?



Greatest trade coin of all time.

I don't know, the Spanish silver always strikes me as more of a great
plunder coin rather than a trade coin.
they were plunder but they were also used world-wide. i think it was in 1857
when the u.s. declared any other coins than those produced by the mint were
not legal tender. apparently spanish coins were part of the problem because
they did not pass on a par value with u.s. coins and consumers were getting
hosed.
apparently there were coins from so many countries involved that merchants
kept charts of foreign coins to convert to u.s. prices.

"MJKolodziej" wrote in message
owncomputing...

"John Mazor" wrote in message news:gDIqk.284$Ro1.187@trnddc04...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
John Mazor wrote:
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Doing some research on pieces of eight, from cobs through pillar
dollars to busts, and it strikes me that it has very good claims to
being the greatest trade coin of all time. Curiously, I don't
believe I've seen it referred to that way, in print or online.

"The Spanish milled dollar, valued at 8 reales, and otherwise known
as the Pillar dollar, or piece of eight, has been given a place in
romantic fiction unequalled by any other coin."

- R.S. Yeoman, A Guide Book of United States Coins, 1st (1947)
through 62nd (2009) editions

"Suddenly he swept her up into his tan, brawny arms and gently
nuzzled his dark moustache into the nape of her neck, slowly and
maddeningly working his way up to lick the Spanish milled dollar
hanging by a tiny gold hook from her earlobe where her father, the
numismatist, had placed it shortly before he died of malaria
contracted while searching for the fabled 1804 American dollar
rumored to be cached in a Louisiana swamp..."
Oh, wait, did he mean some other kind of romantic fiction?

LOL! Unfortunately, San Jose State University has already announced its winner of the
2008 Bulwer-Lytton contest, so you'll have to wait almost a full year now to claim
your prize. 8)

http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/

James

I entered a few of those, gave up after obviously inferior compositions won out over
mine.

Maybe I'll dust off my dictionary of literary clichés and try again.

In this contest the obviously inferior should win.

mk

Doh! And I've been striving for "quality" all these years. Silly me.

in wrote:
In article
,
Jorg Lueke wrote:


Reid Goldsborough wrote:


The first great trade coin was the ancient Athenian Owl

What about the turtles? Who don't the turtles get any respect?



Greatest trade coin of all time.

I don't know, the Spanish silver always strikes me as more of a great
plunder coin rather than a trade coin.
they were plunder but they were also used world-wide. i think it was
in 1857
when the u.s. declared any other coins than those produced by the
mint were
not legal tender. apparently spanish coins were part of the problem
because
they did not pass on a par value with u.s. coins and consumers were
getting
hosed.
apparently there were coins from so many countries involved that
merchants
kept charts of foreign coins to convert to u.s. prices.

Yes, it was the Coinage Law of 1857 that accomplished not only that, but
also the demise of the half cent and large cent. I'm guessing that your
suspicion about merchants keeping some kind of currency conversion charts is
also quite justified, although I've never seen verification of such. It
would be really cool to actually find an original and see what it had on it!

We are also led to believe that once that 1857 law went into effect, the
half cents and large cents, along with all the foreign coins that were
floating around, ceased to float around. I can't imagine that to be the
case at all, especially in the more remote areas, and in 1857, there were
lots and lots of remote areas. How long some of those now-derelict coins
continued to be used in commerce I have no clue, although I can easily
imagine them circulating for another, oh, say, twenty years, especially with
the currency crisis called the Civil War having disrupted those best-laid
plans. We read of the twenty-cent piece being created to resolve a "making
change" dilemma involving Spanish coins, particularly in the West, and that
was in 1875 still. So, who knows? Maybe it took even longer than 20 years
for all those coppers and reals and pfennigs to finally disappear into cigar
boxes.

James