USA Today says dump the penny

Joe Fischer wrote:
On Mon, lid (Christian Feldhaus) wrote:


Your example reminded me of a different discussion here though - about
the introduction of the euro in Slovenia. People in that country are
used to coins being of little value, so the government actually started
an "Ask for your change!" campaign:


Do you mean because of run-away inflation?

I saw a picture at the Library of Congress Print
and Photograph web site of a woman in Germany after
WWI with handfuls of large bills trying to count out
enough to buy something of little value.


| When paying in tolars, people often ignore their change, so it is
| usually left at the cash desk, in pockets, or at home. Paying in coins
| and low-value banknotes after the introduction of the euro will become
| important, as the prices of basic consumer goods, e.g. bread and other
| bakery products, will be around 1 euro. Therefore, every cent in the
| pocket will become important. People should get used to spending the
| coins, instead of keeping them at home. Coins are a means of payment
| and are equal to banknotes.

May take them a while to get used to that. ;-) And it should be
interesting to observe whether people in Slovenia will be aware of the
value of such pieces, or whether the mental image of coins not being
worth much will prevail.


It is more than just the public's impression, I would
consider it an extreme imposition on my freedom if I had
to leave the house with coins to buy anything.
The sole advantage of paper (rag) currency is the
lack of weight and that it requires no special clothing
of accessory to carry it.

Good thing you weren't around in the pre-WWII years. Coins ruled everyday
life and a ONE DOLLAR NOTE was a LOT of money back then, much like a $50 FRN
is today.

--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 01:28:02 GMT, in (e) wrote:

the worst is the construction and the3 times when one lane
is closed. my last trip on the 28th last, there was a truck
accident and it was 3 hours of crawl in 115f heat to go 4
miles. i had my van with no ac. my neighbor goes to state
line and she was with me. she was drinking water i had under
the seat for 2 years and still fainted.
it was so hot people were too wilted to bitch.

What, no desert bags?

Western stories? Silver mines, and slot machines.

I got tired of hitting jackpots, so I filled the water bags
and headed east to the Virgin River and turned right.

I took one turn and passed a pickup near what looked
like a log fort, and turned around back to the river and
headed south on a seldom traveled road (tire tracks).

After about 10 miles or so it seemed to get windy,
and the road suddenly headed down hill, rather steeply.
I went about a 100 feet, and stopped, and looked
at boulders bigger than houses on both sides of the "road".

I decided not to chance an earthquake jostling
one of those perched boulders loose, and backed up,
luckily the car had enough power in reverse, and
that saved me a long walk.

But I have wondered for 40 years what was down
that "road", a turnaround, a dead end, s sheer cliff at
the Colorado, I had heard of large boulders falling
near boats on the river.

Funny the 114 degree heat didn't bother me,
no AC, but those little wing vent windows and the
windows down seemed enough.
But then the increased population and planting
trees and lawns (and Lake Mead) may have ended
the one percent humidity.

Back to the blackjack tables and free Tom Collins'.

Joe Fischer

On Mon, "Michael G. Koerner" wrote:

Joe Fischer wrote:
It is more than just the public's impression, I would
consider it an extreme imposition on my freedom if I had
to leave the house with coins to buy anything.
The sole advantage of paper (rag) currency is the
lack of weight and that it requires no special clothing
of accessory to carry it.

Good thing you weren't around in the pre-WWII years.

I was. :-)

Coins ruled everyday
life and a ONE DOLLAR NOTE was a LOT of money
back then, much like a $50 FRN is today.

Oh, come on, it was nothing like that, the depression
went on and on, and money was scarce, but paper money
was much more common than silver dollars, in fact there
were essentially _NO_ silver dollars used in everyday
commerce.

Fifty dollar bills are not used all that much today,
twenties are used the most, but I would not even consider
the $1 bill in 1935 to have more value than a $20 bill today,
inflation has not been even over all commodities, gasoline
was about a dime then, 30 cents until 1970, and it has
only become unaffordable the last few years.

I lived in a town with no electricity before 1939,
candy and soda pop was a nickel, and I got the melted
babbit out of railroad car bearing boxes and sold it
for scrap for candy money.

I went to the movie in 1939 and the cashier
started to give me change for a twenty, but I stopped
her, I am pretty sure I gave her a one, but I have
often wondered, was I too dumb to know a $20 bill?

Anyway, all the ones that I remember were
silver certificates and even though there has been
steady inflation, whatever it has been, the
US dollar has been pretty stable.

If you listen to TV reporters, it sounds like
the average person earns 50000 or 60000 a year now,
but that is nonsense, the average American earns
about $18000 a year, and if married with 3 children,
and the wife makes at least that, they not only pay
no federal income tax, they get a check from Uncle
Sam for about $1500 from the child credit.

Money was scarce for most people, but
my uncle ran a funeral home, and had hundred
dollar bills in his pocket all the time.

Joe Fischer

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:26:53 -0400, Joe Fischer wrote:

Oh, come on, it was nothing like that, the depression
went on and on, and money was scarce, but paper money
was much more common than silver dollars, in fact there
were essentially _NO_ silver dollars used in everyday
commerce.

Then, why are so many of 'em worn way, way down? Didn't happen in the
vault. At least I hope it doesn't.

On 18 Jul 2006 02:36:52 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Then, why are so many of 'em worn way, way down? Didn't happen in the
vault. At least I hope it doesn't.

I think there was a time when silver dollars were
used a lot, but it was before the small dollar bills came out,
and possibly mostly before WWI.

I was given more silver dollars as a gift (birthday,
Christmas) than I ever received in a transaction.

I'll have to try to check number of dollar bills
printed after 1926 and compare that with the total
number of silver dollars minted.

In western movies they show coins being used,
but the era depicted was way before the 1930's.

Joe Fischer

Joe Fischer wrote:
On Mon, "Michael G. Koerner" wrote:


Joe Fischer wrote:

It is more than just the public's impression, I would
consider it an extreme imposition on my freedom if I had
to leave the house with coins to buy anything.
The sole advantage of paper (rag) currency is the
lack of weight and that it requires no special clothing
of accessory to carry it.

Good thing you weren't around in the pre-WWII years.


I was. :-)


Coins ruled everyday
life and a ONE DOLLAR NOTE was a LOT of money
back then, much like a $50 FRN is today.


Oh, come on, it was nothing like that, the depression
went on and on, and money was scarce, but paper money
was much more common than silver dollars, in fact there
were essentially _NO_ silver dollars used in everyday
commerce.

I said nothing about those cartwheel-sized $1 coind from back then, I said
"coins". That included everything from 1¢ pieces up to 50¢ pieces.

You used coins for pretty much everything and did not even think of throwing
them into a big jar, to be deposited when it fills up, it was just too much
money to be sitting on.

And you thought nothing of it, as that was just the way it was. Spending
'Paper' money was the day-to-day exception, not the rule as it is today.

Fifty dollar bills are not used all that much today,
twenties are used the most, but I would not even consider
the $1 bill in 1935 to have more value than a $20 bill today,
inflation has not been even over all commodities, gasoline
was about a dime then, 30 cents until 1970, and it has
only become unaffordable the last few years.

I lived in a town with no electricity before 1939,
candy and soda pop was a nickel, and I got the melted
babbit out of railroad car bearing boxes and sold it
for scrap for candy money.

Thus, $1 was a LOT of money.

I rest my case.

--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________

In article writes:
On Mon, lid (Christian Feldhaus) wrote:

Your example reminded me of a different discussion here though - about
the introduction of the euro in Slovenia. People in that country are
used to coins being of little value, so the government actually started
an "Ask for your change!" campaign:

Do you mean because of run-away inflation?

There has been no such thing in Slovenia.
....
I am very interested in knowing if gasoline is
as expensive in Europe since the introduction of the
euro, I think I saw on the news years ago that gas
was the equivalent of 70 or 80 cents per liter.

At that price, with the recent increases, gasoline
would have to be close to 2 euro per liter (!!!!!????????).

In the Netherlands it just reached EUR 1.50 per liter. (And the
Netherlands is amongst the most expensive in Europe.)
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

In article writes:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:08:51 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

I don't know how current this is, but check this out:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

A lot of those don't look right, some too high,

Well, if you use the wrong exchange rates, indeed. But in another
article Christian wrote EUR 1.40 per liter, you said that is above
US$ 4.00 per gallon, that is right, but it is *much* more, it is
actually about US$ 6.64. The current price in the Netherlands
reached EUR 1.50 per liter (or about US$ 7.11 per gallon).
The lowest price in Europe, Luxembourg, EUR 1.15 per liter, is
still about US$ 5.45 per gallon.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

On Tue, "Dik T. Winter" wrote:

writes:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:08:51 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
I don't know how current this is, but check this out:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

A lot of those don't look right, some too high,

Well, if you use the wrong exchange rates, indeed. But in another
article Christian wrote EUR 1.40 per liter, you said that is above
US$ 4.00 per gallon, that is right, but it is *much* more, it is
actually about US$ 6.64.

I was trying to guesstimate how many liters in
a US gallon, 3.5, and the exchange rate, 80 cents = euro.

But I didn't do the math right, just guessed, over $4
is unthinkable when I was using gasoline in a taxi fleet
in 1970 at 11 cents per gallon delivered (taxes were paid
later by the mile).
I think I went the wrong way with the USD = euro.

The current price in the Netherlands
reached EUR 1.50 per liter (or about US$ 7.11 per gallon).
The lowest price in Europe, Luxembourg, EUR 1.15 per liter, is
still about US$ 5.45 per gallon.

I tried it again, and with a little stronger dollar today,
I got $7.09 USD per US gallon.

I sure hope you have good roads to show for all that
money if the high prices are caused by national taxes.

Actually, even though the price is obscene, I agree
with what must be the primary reason if the taxes are
high, some countries need to control the trade deficits
more than others, but I thought with the euro, that
would have made the price more uniform across the zone.

I am not a world traveler (after being on flying pay
in the Air Force 60 years ago, I have never been in an
aircraft, I don't fly, and I don't go on boat rides), so I
am never in a situation where I need to calculate
exchange rates.

I have 4 rear wheel drive Cadillacs (bigger than
front wheel drive) and I am considering buying an old
Alfa Romeo 4 DR V6 5 speed, but I don't want to
drive it, I just want to put racing stickers on it.

I think the people in the commodities market
have lost all sense of the worth of money, there is
no gas shortage, they are just bidding it up because
there is so much excess money, and with each rise
in price the excess money increases.

It is time to put a lid on prices, ration it, stop
all imports, or whatever it takes to get prices down
enough so that the world economy does not suffer.

I can't afford $2.89 for gas, how can anybody
rationalize twice that?
There seems to be more and more motorcycles
and scooters on the road.

Joe Fischer

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:24:19 GMT, George D wrote:
Joe Fischer wrote:

snip
Of course freedom concepts can be carried too
far, an example is the seat belt and helmet laws, which
are a good thing and those that insist those laws take
away freedom, are wrong.

They take us one step closer to 1984.

I'm sorry, but having people wear their seatbelts in no way infringes on
their freedom. I don't want to dig your ass out of a car crash with
fatal or near-fatal injuries; been doing it for a dozen years and quite
frankly, I'm sick of it. I can count on one hand the number of people
who needed transport who were properly belted, the vast, vast majority
of people sent away in the ambulance, helicopter, or with the coronor
weren't wearing belts.

Although, if you're willing to forfeit insurance and government benefits
if your injuries happened when you weren't belted, well then, sure, go
for it.


I agree that seat belts and helmets save lives. I also think that laws that force you to
wear them are not the proper way to encourage people to wear them. Education and maybe
insurance clauses that somehow limit liability are a better way.

I have seen us, in the last 50 years, move closer and closer to big brother and I am
against all of these removals of freedom.

Laws of this type only help the lawyers become rich and do little for the general public.

George D.