USA Today says dump the penny

Joe Fischer wrote:

While the "internal" composition of the currency basket changed when the
ECU was replaced by the euro, that did not affect its external value.

So all conversions also effective cleaned house, or gave the governments
data on who had the money?

Well, we are talking about transactions here that did not involve cash.
There were no ECU circulation coins and notes, and ECU based deals would
usually be fairly large amounts. Such transactions are not anonymous
anyway.

I really think people who are actually emotional about a clerk handing
them cents in change are just trying to get attention, all they have to do
is lay them on the counter or throw them away after leaving.

Basically right; my point was just that, if people on one hand insist on
the penny and on exact change, and OTOH do not spend these pennies but
put and keep them in jars or stockings, even more of these coins need to
be produced. Even though the production cost exceeds the face value ...

Your example reminded me of a different discussion here though - about
the introduction of the euro in Slovenia. People in that country are
used to coins being of little value, so the government actually started
an "Ask for your change!" campaign:

| When paying in tolars, people often ignore their change, so it is
| usually left at the cash desk, in pockets, or at home. Paying in coins
| and low-value banknotes after the introduction of the euro will become
| important, as the prices of basic consumer goods, e.g. bread and other
| bakery products, will be around 1 euro. Therefore, every cent in the
| pocket will become important. People should get used to spending the
| coins, instead of keeping them at home. Coins are a means of payment
| and are equal to banknotes.

May take them a while to get used to that. ;-) And it should be
interesting to observe whether people in Slovenia will be aware of the
value of such pieces, or whether the mental image of coins not being
worth much will prevail.

I just noticed that Tennessee has a 9.25 cent sales tax, and if that state
needs that fourth of a penny, the people need the exact change, every
penny, on every transaction.

Sounds fair g.

Christian

Reclining Buddha wrote:

Ah, yes. How do the blind distinguish those notes?

What is the percentage of people in the Netherlands who both:

a - Are too blind to discern the denomination of a banknote

&

b - Do their own purchasing for cash, or work as a cashier or other
banknote reliant position, without the assistance of a sighted person?

Why mark sidewalk edges then so that, at pedestrian crossings, blind
people can detect where to stop? They will surely get help from others
nearby. Why make web pages barrier free so that blind people can "read"
them? There will certainly be somebody who helps out ... and so on.

To be fair, I do not know how many blind or vision impaired people
primarily rely on size differences when it comes to determining which
note represents what value. The raised "lettering" will also help, I
suppose. And since in so many countries notes of different values have
different sizes, the idea to give different denomination notes in NL or
the EU the same size probably never came up.

What I do know, however, is that prior to the introduction of the euro
cash, the EBU tested the planned coins and notes. And quite obviously
the size difference is one of the features that helps distinguishing the
denominations ...

Christian

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:18:12 GMT, e wrote:
In article , Dave Hinz wrote:

States with voluntary helmet laws, tend to have more organ donors.
Young healthy male head injury fatalities are good sources of otherwise
healthy organs. So if you want to feel the wind in your hair, that's
fine with me, really it is, but please sign the back of your driver's
license and tell your family that you've done so.

'zackly. spares for the worthy.

I'd imagine the highway between you and Vegas is pretty busy in that
regard? When my sister was stationed down at Fort Irwin she said fatal
crashes were a regular (as in nightly) occurance? Not so much from you
on to base, but from Vegas to you?

On Mon, lid (Christian Feldhaus) wrote:

Your example reminded me of a different discussion here though - about
the introduction of the euro in Slovenia. People in that country are
used to coins being of little value, so the government actually started
an "Ask for your change!" campaign:

Do you mean because of run-away inflation?

I saw a picture at the Library of Congress Print
and Photograph web site of a woman in Germany after
WWI with handfuls of large bills trying to count out
enough to buy something of little value.

| When paying in tolars, people often ignore their change, so it is
| usually left at the cash desk, in pockets, or at home. Paying in coins
| and low-value banknotes after the introduction of the euro will become
| important, as the prices of basic consumer goods, e.g. bread and other
| bakery products, will be around 1 euro. Therefore, every cent in the
| pocket will become important. People should get used to spending the
| coins, instead of keeping them at home. Coins are a means of payment
| and are equal to banknotes.

May take them a while to get used to that. ;-) And it should be
interesting to observe whether people in Slovenia will be aware of the
value of such pieces, or whether the mental image of coins not being
worth much will prevail.

It is more than just the public's impression, I would
consider it an extreme imposition on my freedom if I had
to leave the house with coins to buy anything.
The sole advantage of paper (rag) currency is the
lack of weight and that it requires no special clothing
of accessory to carry it.

I don't understand the desire of some to be able
to use coins to pay for anything. There are locations
where coin machines are numerous, but there are also
places (like where I live) where there are _NO_ vending
machines of any kind, not even a pay phone.
I am willing to carry coins home, or accumulate
or use them in the car at drive ins, but I have no intention
to ever being forced leave the house with coins.

I am very interested in knowing if gasoline is
as expensive in Europe since the introduction of the
euro, I think I saw on the news years ago that gas
was the equivalent of 70 or 80 cents per liter.

At that price, with the recent increases, gasoline
would have to be close to 2 euro per liter (!!!!!????????).
I would feel better if you tell me that it is cheaper
than that.

I can remember buying bread in 1935 for 10 cents
a large loaf, and now it is not much more than a dollar,
that seems like a lot of inflation, but there are many
countries that envy that much stability, some have
had to change currency and start with nothing several
times.

While pennies seem like a nuisance, there is no
need to ever receive more than 4 per sale, no matter
how much inflation there is.
I don't ever remember seeing anybody carrying
silver dollars or even half dollars if they could be avoided,
even when coin purses and trousers with big strong
pockets were popular.

The reason most people payed for things with
coins from the change purse was to get rid of the coins,
not because "they were to buy things with".

Joe Fischer

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, lid (Christian Feldhaus) wrote:

Your example reminded me of a different discussion here though - about
the introduction of the euro in Slovenia. People in that country are
used to coins being of little value, so the government actually started
an "Ask for your change!" campaign:

Do you mean because of run-away inflation?

I saw a picture at the Library of Congress Print
and Photograph web site of a woman in Germany after
WWI with handfuls of large bills trying to count out
enough to buy something of little value.

| When paying in tolars, people often ignore their change, so it is
| usually left at the cash desk, in pockets, or at home. Paying in coins
| and low-value banknotes after the introduction of the euro will become
| important, as the prices of basic consumer goods, e.g. bread and other
| bakery products, will be around 1 euro. Therefore, every cent in the
| pocket will become important. People should get used to spending the
| coins, instead of keeping them at home. Coins are a means of payment
| and are equal to banknotes.

May take them a while to get used to that. ;-) And it should be
interesting to observe whether people in Slovenia will be aware of the
value of such pieces, or whether the mental image of coins not being
worth much will prevail.

It is more than just the public's impression, I would
consider it an extreme imposition on my freedom if I had
to leave the house with coins to buy anything.
The sole advantage of paper (rag) currency is the
lack of weight and that it requires no special clothing
of accessory to carry it.

I don't understand the desire of some to be able
to use coins to pay for anything. There are locations
where coin machines are numerous, but there are also
places (like where I live) where there are _NO_ vending
machines of any kind, not even a pay phone.
I am willing to carry coins home, or accumulate
or use them in the car at drive ins, but I have no intention
to ever being forced leave the house with coins.

I am very interested in knowing if gasoline is
as expensive in Europe since the introduction of the
euro, I think I saw on the news years ago that gas
was the equivalent of 70 or 80 cents per liter.

I don't know how current this is, but check this out:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

Mr. Jaggers

Joe Fischer wrote:

Your example reminded me of a different discussion here though - about
the introduction of the euro in Slovenia. People in that country are
used to coins being of little value, so the government actually started
an "Ask for your change!" campaign:

Do you mean because of run-away inflation?

Not in this case. It's just that Slovenians (hmm, "Slovenes"?) tend to
use notes even for amounts and in cases when people in the current euro
countries (and Switzerland, the UK, etc.) use coins. The highest
denomination coin is the 50 tolarjev piece. That is roughly 20 cent (¤)
or a US quarter. The "biggest" euro coin, on the other hand, is the ¤2
piece, worth about ten times that much. I just brought that example up
as a case where people currently learn that even a 1 cent coin can be
"much" ...

(And yes, hyperinflation in Germany back in the early 1920s must have
been really bad. In mid-1918 a loaf of bread, for example, was about
half a mark; in August 1923 it would cost 200,000 marks, and one month
later it was 2 million marks.)

It is more than just the public's impression, I would
consider it an extreme imposition on my freedom if I had
to leave the house with coins to buy anything.
The sole advantage of paper (rag) currency is the
lack of weight and that it requires no special clothing
of accessory to carry it.

For me it is pretty normal to use coins for small amounts and notes for
larger amounts. Just as I use plastic on other occasions. So my wallet
usually contains a mix of (a few) coins, some notes, and some cards.
Personally I prefer a (handy) coin over a filthy low value note. ;-)

At that price, with the recent increases, gasoline
would have to be close to 2 euro per liter (!!!!!????????).
I would feel better if you tell me that it is cheaper
than that.

Good (?) news: In Germany I currently pay about ¤1.35 to 1.40 per liter;
in Belgium and the Netherlands it's a little more, in France it's a
little less, and Luxembourg is darn cheap by our standards g, about
¤1.15 last time I got gas there. The differences are primarily due to
taxes.

While pennies seem like a nuisance, there is no
need to ever receive more than 4 per sale, no matter
how much inflation there is.

Sure, but again, what do people do with those coins? Quite a few are not
available in circulation since they are hoarded or even trashed. So the
mint will make even more, at a price that exceeds the face value. Yes,
other denominations will be profitable, such as the quarters or the
(ahem ...) dollar coins. But I suppose there will be a day when most
people in the US say, hey, what a penny used to buy me years ago now
costs a dime, and we did not have 1/10 cent coins back then, so why
should my tax money be wasted on making those pennies?

(However I dare not bet when that day will come g.)

Christian

On Tue, lid (Christian Feldhaus) wrote:
(And yes, hyperinflation in Germany back in the early 1920s must have
been really bad. In mid-1918 a loaf of bread, for example, was about
half a mark; in August 1923 it would cost 200,000 marks, and one month
later it was 2 million marks.)

If you really want to make me sick, tell me what kind
of silver German Mark proof or collector sets from the 1930s
(I think) with 3 or 4 coins in a nice case that I had in 1955
and gave or traded away at the value of silver then.

It is more than just the public's impression, I would
consider it an extreme imposition on my freedom if I had
to leave the house with coins to buy anything.
The sole advantage of paper (rag) currency is the
lack of weight and that it requires no special clothing
of accessory to carry it.

For me it is pretty normal to use coins for small amounts and notes for
larger amounts. Just as I use plastic on other occasions. So my wallet
usually contains a mix of (a few) coins, some notes, and some cards.
Personally I prefer a (handy) coin over a filthy low value note. ;-)

I don't consider the value of a denomination to be important
other than bigger is better because it is more, and I consider all
denominations to be of equal value as an integral part of the
monetary system.

My wallet is always stuffed, not with so much money,
just junk papers and old auto insurance cards that I need
to clean out more often.
I have seen wallets that have a coin pocket built in,
but never owned one.

I have lived quite a few different places and had
quite a few different jobs, and have noticed that people
from Europe (and older people in the US) carried a
coin purse, and used it for every purchase.
I think this was a habit acquired from prior living
with no excess money, each purchase needing to be
carefully considered and the coins used, else the money
would run out before the month.

At that price, with the recent increases, gasoline
would have to be close to 2 euro per liter (!!!!!????????).
I would feel better if you tell me that it is cheaper
than that.

Good (?) news: In Germany I currently pay about ¤1.35 to 1.40 per liter;
in Belgium and the Netherlands it's a little more, in France it's a
little less, and Luxembourg is darn cheap by our standards g, about
¤1.15 last time I got gas there. The differences are primarily due to
taxes.

Not great news, 1.40 would be about $4 US per
US gallon, and I think $2.89 is outrageous.

While pennies seem like a nuisance, there is no
need to ever receive more than 4 per sale, no matter
how much inflation there is.

Sure, but again, what do people do with those coins? Quite a few are not
available in circulation since they are hoarded or even trashed. So the
mint will make even more, at a price that exceeds the face value.

They won't lose money on them long, they will
take some action to mint them at less than cost, it may
be the 100th anniversary of the cent that is complicating
things at the moment.

Yes,
other denominations will be profitable, such as the quarters or the
(ahem ...) dollar coins. But I suppose there will be a day when most
people in the US say, hey, what a penny used to buy me years ago now
costs a dime, and we did not have 1/10 cent coins back then, so why
should my tax money be wasted on making those pennies?

(However I dare not bet when that day will come g.)
Christian

I am not sure that the average person will think
that way. A jigsaw puzzle doesn't need 1000 pieces,
but if it is designed that way, 1000 are needed.

All (almost all) cash registers are set up to display
the exact change to give to the customer, and a large
percentage of those may not support a software upgrade,
so it could be very expensive to make a change.

On larger sales, merchants can easily ignore
giving exact change and round everything down and
not have a problem with an upset customer, but that
may even take longer than giving change if the customer
is a person who insists on digging in his pockets for the
change to give back, there are an amazing number of
people who do not want to accept more than due.

I think I have too many coins, but almost
all either have premium value, or are some minor
error that I am interested in.
But with postage what it is, selling minor coins
on ebay is not a good option, and I hate to spend them.
I too, like those larger bills, they just don't seem
to last long.

Joe Fischer

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:08:51 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

I don't know how current this is, but check this out:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

A lot of those don't look right, some too high, and
Brazil uses ethanol for most of the motor fuel uses, and
Puerto Rico is a US protectorate that surely has to pay
the same price as a US city near a refinery.

But it is certain that the countries that have the
higher prices will experience much greater inflation,
and this will be a disaster for some currencies.

It could also be a disaster for the US federal
budget, which has cost of living built into all pensions
and many payroll programs.

It certainly will be a disaster for the person who
has to commute or drive long distances, they will be
cleaning out piggy banks and selling collected coins
to buy gas.
Weeks ago there were stories on the news of
pawn shops having greatly increased activity, and
people were saying they had to pawn or sell things
to buy gas.

Joe Fischer

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
news
On Tue, lid (Christian Feldhaus) wrote:
(And yes, hyperinflation in Germany back in the early 1920s must have
been really bad. In mid-1918 a loaf of bread, for example, was about
half a mark; in August 1923 it would cost 200,000 marks, and one month
later it was 2 million marks.)

If you really want to make me sick, tell me what kind
of silver German Mark proof or collector sets from the 1930s
(I think) with 3 or 4 coins in a nice case that I had in 1955
and gave or traded away at the value of silver then.

It is more than just the public's impression, I would
consider it an extreme imposition on my freedom if I had
to leave the house with coins to buy anything.
The sole advantage of paper (rag) currency is the
lack of weight and that it requires no special clothing
of accessory to carry it.

For me it is pretty normal to use coins for small amounts and notes for
larger amounts. Just as I use plastic on other occasions. So my wallet
usually contains a mix of (a few) coins, some notes, and some cards.
Personally I prefer a (handy) coin over a filthy low value note. ;-)

I don't consider the value of a denomination to be important
other than bigger is better because it is more, and I consider all
denominations to be of equal value as an integral part of the
monetary system.

My wallet is always stuffed, not with so much money,
just junk papers and old auto insurance cards that I need
to clean out more often.
I have seen wallets that have a coin pocket built in,
but never owned one.

I have lived quite a few different places and had
quite a few different jobs, and have noticed that people
from Europe (and older people in the US) carried a
coin purse, and used it for every purchase.
I think this was a habit acquired from prior living
with no excess money, each purchase needing to be
carefully considered and the coins used, else the money
would run out before the month.

I gave my wife a neat little tooled leather coin "purse" I bought in Central
America a couple decades ago. She uses it all the time to cover the $2.09 items
so she won't have to accumulate even more coins in change. There's a moral
there somewhere. ; )

Bruce

On Mon, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

I gave my wife a neat little tooled leather coin "purse" I bought in Central
America a couple decades ago. She uses it all the time to cover the $2.09 items
so she won't have to accumulate even more coins in change. There's a moral
there somewhere. ; )
Bruce

I have my grandfather's two pocket coin purse,
well maybe it was common to keep bills in one of them,
so maybe it should be called a money purse.

He was born in 1862, went to Oklahoma in 1880,
married an indian woman and she died in childbirth
with the second child.
His sister married a descendant of the "John"
Shields that was gunsmith on the Lewis and Clark
expedition.

And now I am trying to round up all the new
nickels related to L & C from circulation.

I have owned quite a few coin purses, but as
collector items or antiques, not for use.
But there have been times where frugality
and a coin purse would have been prudent, but
I was never inclined to be thrifty or efficient in
handling money, getting wild at a roulette table
in Las Vegas is more my style, and that is not good.

Joe Fischer