What would you have done?

"Phil DeMayo" wrote in message
...
ojunk (Coin Saver) wrote:

From: "Larry Louks"

I guess I've led a sheltered life for these six decades. Fill me in
on
what an auction pool is.

Okay. Working term here is "shill bids".

I don't believe this is true at all....in fact I think it is the opposite
of
shill bidding.

If I remember correctly a "pool" is a group of bidders who agree to keep
the
bids low by not bidding against each other.



This type of arrangement is extremely common at auctions. people who know
each other won't bid against each other. Most times its not so much
collusion as just not wanting to bid against your buddy across the room. In
other cases, its pretty organized to the point where they have fixed the
prices they are willing to pay. Often this is done with the auctioneer's
cooperation, who shares in the profits.


++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

"John Stone" wrote in message
om...
"Larry Louks" wrote in message
news:hysob.54380$9E1.242603@attbi_s52...
JSTONE9352 wrote:
I didn't consider asking to join their auction pool

I guess I've led a sheltered life for these six decades. Fill me in
on
what an auction pool is. I don't think I've ever heard of the concept of
such.

-=LDL


It is when a group of dealers or collectors get together at an auction
and
agree not to bid against each other on certain items in order to get
them at
a lower price. In some auctions there could be several pools
operating that are unknown to the other. It is illegal in every
state. It is something that is not
widely talked about in numismatic circles but it does go on. Years
ago several
dealers got heavy fines ranging from $50,000-$120,000 for being in an
auction

I wonder how you can be fined for not bidding on something?


pool at a Christie's auction. A dealer once told me he was in a pool
at the
auction at the Memphis Paper Money Show. He didn't use the word pool
but..."I got together with ______ and ______ and we agreed not to
bid against each other"

I wonder how you can be fined for not bidding on something?


It goes deeper than just that.

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...

I wonder how you can be fined for not bidding on something?


It goes deeper than just that.

Even so, how can you be legally forced to make a bid?

isn't that the net effect of fining someone for not bidding?

It goes deeper than just that.

Even so, how can you be legally forced to make a bid?

isn't that the net effect of fining someone for not bidding?


It's more complex than that. I believe it
goes into price fixing and collusion.

I guess you would have to read the laws about auction pools to get the more
indepth explanation. All I know is that
it is against the law and I'm not going to
do it.

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...

It goes deeper than just that.

Even so, how can you be legally forced to make a bid?

isn't that the net effect of fining someone for not bidding?


It's more complex than that. I believe it
goes into price fixing and collusion.

I guess you would have to read the laws about auction pools to get the
more
indepth explanation. All I know is that
it is against the law and I'm not going to
do it.


Not suggesting you should, but I just wonder how you could be forced to bid
on anything, and be fined for not bidding. I'd guess there was a lot more
to it then that.

From: flip1948

I don't believe this is true at all....in fact I think it is the opposite of
shill bidding. If I remember correctly a "pool" is a group of bidders who
agree to keep the bids low by not bidding against each other.

Sorry.
Got my terminology temporarilly mixed up.

8-l


Coin Saver

"Bob Peterson" wrote in message
...

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...

It goes deeper than just that.

Even so, how can you be legally forced to make a bid?

isn't that the net effect of fining someone for not bidding?


It's more complex than that. I believe it
goes into price fixing and collusion.

I guess you would have to read the laws about auction pools to get the
more
indepth explanation. All I know is that
it is against the law and I'm not going to
do it.


Not suggesting you should, but I just wonder how you could be forced to
bid
on anything, and be fined for not bidding. I'd guess there was a lot more
to it then that.



I think that the enforcement of these laws against any group or individual
would
the result of establishing a pattern over several auctions. A group that
conspires
at one auction, probably is not of interest to the authorities. A group who
fixes
several auctions, especially against one house or another, would be easier
to
prosecute. It is not as simple as just saying to the auctioneer, "Hey, that
guy said
...., go get him!"

That being said, reporting them is helpful. If they are known to operate in
pools, the
auctioneer could either continue to build his case or ask them to leave.

I think of this in the same category as card-counters in a casino. You
cannot stop
someone from mentally playing the game, but the casino has the right to ask
you
to leave for any reason.

In article ,
says...

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...

It goes deeper than just that.

Even so, how can you be legally forced to make a bid?

isn't that the net effect of fining someone for not bidding?


It's more complex than that. I believe it
goes into price fixing and collusion.

I guess you would have to read the laws about auction pools to get the
more
indepth explanation. All I know is that
it is against the law and I'm not going to
do it.


Not suggesting you should, but I just wonder how you could be forced to bid
on anything, and be fined for not bidding. I'd guess there was a lot more
to it then that.

I don't think it's the "not bidding" part that is the problem, it's the
making an agreement with others not to bid that is the problem.
--
Chrysta Wilson

My Collection:
http://www.chrystawilson.com

"Chrysta Wilson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...

It goes deeper than just that.

Even so, how can you be legally forced to make a bid?

isn't that the net effect of fining someone for not bidding?


It's more complex than that. I believe it
goes into price fixing and collusion.

I guess you would have to read the laws about auction pools to get the
more
indepth explanation. All I know is that
it is against the law and I'm not going to
do it.


Not suggesting you should, but I just wonder how you could be forced to
bid
on anything, and be fined for not bidding. I'd guess there was a lot
more
to it then that.

I don't think it's the "not bidding" part that is the problem, it's the
making an agreement with others not to bid that is the problem.

And just why would an agreement not to bid be illegal? It seems to me that
you cannot force everyone attendiong an auction to bid on every item, so how
can you force them to bid on certain items?

--
Chrysta Wilson

My Collection:
http://www.chrystawilson.com