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#31
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Little information about just what they did other than in one case it
mentioned that a dealer paid other dealers not to bid. That I can see being illegal. I wonder if any of the people deemed to have been injured by getting lower prices for their material ever got any compensation? "Phil DeMayo" wrote in message ... "note.boy" wrote: I would think that it would be near impossible prosecute collectors for operating a bidding ring, i.e. agreeing not to bid against each other, as obtaining proof would be difficult, but it might be easier against a ring of dealers as a pattern may be easier to detect and prove. Does anyone know of any prosecutions for operating bidding rings? A search of the US Department of Justice website for "auction +collusion" returned 178 hits. Here are several press releases regarding charges filed in cases of bidding rings in currency and stamp auctions: http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/Pre_96/S...5/471.txt.html http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/pres...1996/475at.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/Pre_96/April95/196.txt.html http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/June/02_at_363.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/June/02_at_372.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/April/02_at_228.htm British stamp dealer charged in US: http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/May/02_at_321.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/January/02_at_045.htm I don't remember any in the UK but there may have been. Earlier I tried a Google web search for "auction +collusion" and noticed a number of UK based websites discussing the topic. ++++++++++ Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge When bidding online always sit on your helmet Just say NO to counterfeits |
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#32
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#33
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I don't think its so much the prosecution for 'not' bidding that is the
issue-it would be proving the collusion without evidence.It would be almost impossible to prove that two or more bidders agreed not to bid against eachother verbally-without some kind of breakdown of the agreement between the bidders. Its like an unspoken agreement between all of us here not to bid against eachother knowingly on e-bay-if I recognise a fellow rcc'er bidding on something I want to bid on,I may place a bid,but I will also show some consideration as far as not stepping on them.Not to say I haven't or won't bid against any of you,but if your bidding on an item,and I recognise your screen name,I will usually back off,as a courtesy.There's plenty of stuff out there to bid on,I see no reason to create bad blood over some stupid coin.Not to mention the financial stress it could create when your limited in how far you can go in your bidding. I don't know everyones screen name,and I'm sure I've bid against some of you at one time or another,even intentionally-but I won't drive the price of an item up just to spite anyone. phil |
#34
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Phil DeMayo wrote: "note.boy" wrote: I would think that it would be near impossible prosecute collectors for operating a bidding ring, i.e. agreeing not to bid against each other, as obtaining proof would be difficult, but it might be easier against a ring of dealers as a pattern may be easier to detect and prove. Does anyone know of any prosecutions for operating bidding rings? A search of the US Department of Justice website for "auction +collusion" returned 178 hits. Here are several press releases regarding charges filed in cases of bidding rings in currency and stamp auctions: http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/Pre_96/S...5/471.txt.html http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/pres...1996/475at.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/Pre_96/April95/196.txt.html http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/June/02_at_363.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/June/02_at_372.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/April/02_at_228.htm British stamp dealer charged in US: http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/May/02_at_321.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/January/02_at_045.htm It does take a long time to gather evidence going by this quote from the above link, "The Department said the conspiracy took place from the early 1980s until at least 1997 and for several months again in 1999." Billy I don't remember any in the UK but there may have been. Earlier I tried a Google web search for "auction +collusion" and noticed a number of UK based websites discussing the topic. ++++++++++ Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge When bidding online always sit on your helmet Just say NO to counterfeits |
#35
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I know of one occasion where a collector faxed bids to the auction house
but his bids were not processed, if they had been he would have won some lots so the seller lost out on a higher price. I suppose that buried in the small print is a get out clause for the auction house. Billy "Byron L. Reed" wrote: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:08:06 -0600, "Bob Peterson" wrote: I think I just may. I can see no argument, simple or complex, that would result in forcing someone to bid on something at an auction. In a true bidding pool the each bidder has already stated his intended bid. The law regards this as a legal bid even though it was off the floor. The pool is acting as the agent of every member of the pool. The same thing goes with legitimate bidder's agents. If an agent holds two bids over the hammer price on the floor HE MUST inform the auctioneer of this and adjust the hammer price upward to one increment higher than the agent's penultimate bid. BLReed To email me click he http://tinyurl.com/nd66 For collector coins and supplies at fair prices: http://tinyurl.com/pt9r Cool things: http://www.byronreed.com/byrons_collections/default.htm Talk bust coins: http://www.byronreed.com/phpBB2/index.php |
#36
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Byron L. Reed spoke thusly...
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:16:50 -0500, "phil" wrote: Not to say I haven't or won't bid against any of you,but if your bidding on an item,and I recognise your screen name,I will usually back off,as a courtesy. FYI, if we're both bidding on something I really want, you're dead meat. Screw courtesy. Heh, heh. I have zero problems bidding against rcc'ers. Since most of the auctions I bid in are by rcc'ers, I end up outbidding and getting outbid by (Hi Bill) mostly rcc'ers. -- Stujoe The Stujoe Collection: Coin Grading, News, Forums and more... http://www.TheStujoeCollection.com/forums |
#37
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okay.
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#38
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Stujoe wrote:
Byron L. Reed spoke thusly... On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:16:50 -0500, "phil" wrote: Not to say I haven't or won't bid against any of you,but if your bidding on an item,and I recognise your screen name,I will usually back off,as a courtesy. FYI, if we're both bidding on something I really want, you're dead meat. Screw courtesy. Heh, heh. I have zero problems bidding against rcc'ers. Since most of the auctions I bid in are by rcc'ers, I end up outbidding and getting outbid by (Hi Bill) mostly rcc'ers. I think there was a brisk market in Tee-Shirts that expressed a similar position. Alan 'I'd walk over You / to see the Who ' |
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