If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
"John Yamamoto-Wilson" wrote in message
More disturbing is HR's claim that Ebay let him off the hook. I forwarded them original emails in which this man admitted shilling bids and in which he admitted both to a criminal record and making physical threats. They turned a blind eye to his antics because they were making money from him. I think this stems from the "three strikes and out" policy that they seem to employ, so from the complainant's point of view it seems that nothing has been done, when in fact eBay have notched up one complaint, but don't actually do anything until more complaints come in. That doesn't seem a very good way of dealing with things, though, because it doesn't take into account the severity of the infraction. The case of a seller who admits shill bidding and threatens violence is clearly more serious than that of someone offering to buy something outside the eBay site but, from what I understand, eBay deals with both in exactly the same way. I forgot to say that these are very good and reasonable points to make. When one assesses risk professionally, the forumula is always LIKELIHOOD multiplied by SEVERITY OF OUTCOME. If the EBAY disciplinary policy were weighted then I don't doubt that the more serious single incidents would score more highly than they do now. The man was suspended for a week or maybe a month, I cannot recall exactly. But that wasn't the issue for me: it was the fact that EBAY allowed him to keep the shilled feedback which he had admitted was false and posted by his friend. Nothing funnier than seeing an admitted liar, cheat, and thief complaining about someone else lathering him in his own slime. Sounds like one of those syllogisms about Cretans. I mean, suppose he was lying when he admitted being a liar? Anyway, I do hope you're not going to start wishing him "sausage" in prison and all those other things that so poisoned the season's good cheer when you laid into him last Christmas... The thing that bugs Pelan and his cronies is this: that whilst I've been able to successively prove that they have lied and cheated their way across discussion sites, using a recently outed and infiltrated base at Yahoo ("Bad Mr Toad"), they have been singularly unable to pin a single thing on me. The best allegation they've got is that for one week I featured Ramsey Campbell's cronyist review of one of my booklets on my website, which apparently infringed his copyright. On the basis of that one slender issue, Pelan is now running around the playground chanting "Kill The Pig! Kill The Pig!" Luckily the school bell (aka the computer off-switch) quickly puts an end to his obsessive nonsense. Or people standing up to him. But I agree that his profanity often gets the better of him. CB |
Ads |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:53:34 GMT, "Kris Baker"
wrote: "John Pelan" wrote in message .. . Nothing funnier than seeing an admitted liar, cheat, and thief complaining about someone else lathering him in his own slime. The first sentence of your little rant is enough to get you permanently NARUed from eBay. Good day, John Pelan The whole thing sounded like performance art, didn't it? Kris I think Barfer is sort of like the mad busker that's long since given up trying to entertain the crowds and instead opts to sit on the curb and hurl invective at the passing throng. Cheers, John |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 05:35:41 GMT, "palmer.william"
declared: "Art Layton" wrote in message . com... wrote in message . .. I am writing a magazine article regarding the increasing amount of fraudulent booksellers on ebay. I would love to hear stories of anyone who either has information or has themselves been scammed when trying to buy books on ebay (or even if YOU were the scammer!). I've noticed a lot of booksellers knowingly pass off Book Club Editions as first editions, That's criminal fraud. On the other hand, people are foolish to buy books from sellers who plainly don't even know the standard terms of the bookselling trade. (snip) from reading his post on the ebay booksellers board and looking up his id, it seems the OP's upset that he received a bookclub when he won an auction for a "hardcover copy". it seems that he has had that happen more than once, yet still can't figure out why he's not getting first editions. Robert -- The sound of gunfire, off in the distance, I'm getting used to it now Lived in a brownstone, lived in the ghetto, I've lived all over this town This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:07:36 +0900, "John Yamamoto-Wilson"
declared: In such cases, one or two questions just to sort out the basics - Who is the publisher? Are all the pages present and attached to the book? - or to clear up issue points - What is the price on the dust jacket? Does it have an advertisement for such-and-such at the back of the book? - and, hey presto, a sleeper has been awoken. exactly! i just got a first of koontz's whispers for $5 that way. the trick is if they don't say, you have to ask. do not assume it is what you want. Robert -- The sound of gunfire, off in the distance, I'm getting used to it now Lived in a brownstone, lived in the ghetto, I've lived all over this town This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:53:51 GMT, Cathy Krusberg
declared: palmer.william wrote: Mr. or Ms. Internet Bookseller, you will either describe your listings in grammatical English using the standard terms of the trade or you will not get my business. (And as to the book buyers, well, if you are dumb enough to buy on line from so-called booksellers who don't know their basic terminology--and exhibit an atrocious lack of writing skills too--Ebay is not going to be able to save you from yourself.) Although I basically agree with this, I'd like to add one caveat: That the seller can suffer when s/he uses standard terms correctly and the buyer does not. I've seen negative feedback resulting from a book's condition being described as "good" (in the trade standard sense) but not being up to the buyer's idea of "good" (in a more colloquial sense). Sometimes you can't win. a book dealer describing a book as "good" really Really should have more of a description than that. "good" along with a laundry list of flaws should make the true condition apparent. Robert -- The sound of gunfire, off in the distance, I'm getting used to it now Lived in a brownstone, lived in the ghetto, I've lived all over this town This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:56:44 -0500, MindElec wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:53:51 GMT, Cathy Krusberg declared: palmer.william wrote: Mr. or Ms. Internet Bookseller, you will either describe your listings in grammatical English using the standard terms of the trade or you will not get my business. (And as to the book buyers, well, if you are dumb enough to buy on line from so-called booksellers who don't know their basic terminology--and exhibit an atrocious lack of writing skills too--Ebay is not going to be able to save you from yourself.) Although I basically agree with this, I'd like to add one caveat: That the seller can suffer when s/he uses standard terms correctly and the buyer does not. I've seen negative feedback resulting from a book's condition being described as "good" (in the trade standard sense) but not being up to the buyer's idea of "good" (in a more colloquial sense). Sometimes you can't win. a book dealer describing a book as "good" really Really should have more of a description than that. "good" along with a laundry list of flaws should make the true condition apparent. Robert I sell books on eBay from time to time and I guess am guilty of breaking some rules when doing description. However, I am not a dealer, just selling off books I own. I usually list books as in read but good condition. If any tears, store labels, marks, etc exist they are spelled out. Most of what I list are paperbacks or book club editions - and are so described. If anyone has felt scammed by me they have not said so. Reason for selling? I had 3,000+ books and instead of reading a book every day or two I read one every week or two. I guess I am at age where I can't concentrate well enough to get into reading. Note; This isn't a "plug" for eBay sales - I don't have any books listed. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
I think Barfer is sort of like the mad busker that's long since given
up trying to entertain the crowds and instead opts to sit on the curb and hurl invective at the passing throng. More like a monkey in a cage who hurls his feces at those outside his confines. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:52:01 GMT, Charles Seyferlich
declared: On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:56:44 -0500, MindElec wrote: On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:53:51 GMT, Cathy Krusberg declared: palmer.william wrote: Mr. or Ms. Internet Bookseller, you will either describe your listings in grammatical English using the standard terms of the trade or you will not get my business. (And as to the book buyers, well, if you are dumb enough to buy on line from so-called booksellers who don't know their basic terminology--and exhibit an atrocious lack of writing skills too--Ebay is not going to be able to save you from yourself.) Although I basically agree with this, I'd like to add one caveat: That the seller can suffer when s/he uses standard terms correctly and the buyer does not. I've seen negative feedback resulting from a book's condition being described as "good" (in the trade standard sense) but not being up to the buyer's idea of "good" (in a more colloquial sense). Sometimes you can't win. a book dealer describing a book as "good" really Really should have more of a description than that. "good" along with a laundry list of flaws should make the true condition apparent. Robert I sell books on eBay from time to time and I guess am guilty of breaking some rules when doing description. However, I am not a dealer, just selling off books I own. I usually list books as in read but good condition. If any tears, store labels, marks, etc exist they are spelled out. Most of what I list are paperbacks or book club editions - and are so described. sure, i sell books too and make a point of describing condition accurately and stating edition accurately in both terms that the layman and collector will understand. i wasn't pointing a nasty finger at ebay sellers. If anyone has felt scammed by me they have not said so. which then is their own fault. a problem can't be fixed if the seller doesn't know about it. Robert -- The sound of gunfire, off in the distance, I'm getting used to it now Lived in a brownstone, lived in the ghetto, I've lived all over this town This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
John Pelan wrote:
Quite right, second sentence... It is disturbing that eBay allows for a three strikes policy when some very serious infractions occur. Of course they also allow idjits like Barker to ruin sellers feedback by complaining when he couldn't figure out how to wind a clock... Not that I feel ebay does a good job of policing, but how is ebay supposed to know who is lying. Submitted e-mails can be faked (and not easily verifiable unless they were sent through ebay. If you have corresponded with the seller, then you have valid headers to put on top of the faked e-mail - ISPs do not keep permanent backups of all e-mail - most delete it shortly after you read it. Only corporate and government e-mail routinely gets archived. Even if the e-mail is archived, most ISPs/companies/governments have a policy of not disclosing anything without a court order. [I worked at an ISP and we wouldn't disclose anything without a court order; that would be a violation of our privacy policy - We would investigate a complaint if it involved a violation of our rules.]) We've seen accounts in this group of dis-honest sellers threatening to leave bad feedback to the victims. Or delaying with excuses so the time limit for feedback expires. Or using shill accounts to place fake bids to drive away real buyers for revenge. ....And lots more. The first time a compliant shows up with quoted e-mails as evidence, there is no way to know if it is real, retaliation, harassment or even tempers flaring due to a misunderstanding. Since the dishonest sellers have multiple accounts (or hijacked accounts), a false complaint can come from a clean, high feedback account with no prior interaction with the victim. When you are the wronged party or you have experience with one or both parties, then it is obvious to you which party is lying. However, as an outsider it would take a lot of investigation by experts in many fields (books, e-mail tracing, pattern matching to find shills, forgery analysts, etc.) to evaluate each case. Plus, e-bay does not have the object in dispute and even if it was submitted, the other party will claim that it was switched or damaged by the recipient. [A mailing return receipt only shows that _A_ package was delivered - it does not show what was in the package. Someone who buys a lot from one seller is suspicious, but not always a shill. Someone who is overly defensive and belligerent is not always dishonest.] Better diligence in prevention and investigation would help, but the scammers will always be there with constantly evolving methods to avoid/delay being shut down and then popping up again with new identities. I've had a couple of bad ebay transactions, but overall I've been happy with it. I'm careful and research the seller and item before bidding on anything expensive. Many times I bid thinking that the item was poorly described, so I assumed the worst and bid appropriately - sometimes I got what I expected and sometimes I was pleasantly surprised. One bad transaction was a clueless seller who made a mistake and then was convinced that I was trying to scam them. The other was a four dollar item lost in the mail (complicated by the seller going on a long vacation right after sending it.) Brian -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
John Pelan wrote:
I think Barfer is sort of like the mad busker that's long since given up trying to entertain the crowds and instead opts to sit on the curb and hurl invective at the passing throng. Daveblues commented: More like a monkey in a cage who hurls his feces at those outside his confines. Forgive me, but I just don't get it. I've been posting to this group for a number of years (though probably less than Daveblues and certainly less than John), but I still don't get it. I read a reasonably interesting and coherent account of Haunted River's experience with an eBay seller, and sat back just *knowing* that the flaming would start, just as it did when he tried to raise the topic of people using his scans of dust jackets to make and sell facsimiles (http://tinyurl.com/3ajct), and just as it has whenever he has tried to post here. I would agree that some of his postings have been injudicious, but would it be too much to ask for the knee-jerk reactions to stop and for people just to take this guy's postings on their individual merits? If the same posting had been made by someone else no one would have dreamed of characterising the poster as a mad busker or a monkey hurling faeces. -- John http://rarebooksinjapan.com |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Ebay autograph policy | Gummby3 | Autographs | 0 | April 16th 04 01:29 AM |
do not forward OFF this group that Xlist | dahoov2 | Autographs | 4 | March 9th 04 04:45 AM |
[FAQ] rec.collecting.books FAQ | Mike Berro | Books | 0 | December 26th 03 09:18 PM |
autographs | dani.steiner | General | 0 | July 19th 03 06:08 AM |
Reducing Autograph Collection | dani.steiner | Autographs | 0 | July 16th 03 02:29 PM |