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German wartime international airmail rate



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 2nd 03, 05:06 AM
Bob Ingraham
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Default German wartime international airmail rate

Can anyone please tell me what the 1940 rate would be for an airmail letter,
weighing 3.5 grams, mailed from Germany to Argentina? A cover I have is
franked with one 25m commemorative stamp (Scott #497) and two Hindenburg
definitives of 100m and 50m.

(Since the definitives are on cover, I can't be sure whether they are the
1933 issue or the 1933-36 issue, which was watermarked with a swastika. Not
that this has anything to do with my question, although it would be
interesting to know. The cover was mailed by a Jew from Krefeld in 1940.)

Bob Ingraham

-------
Baby Elizabeth Ann Morgan didn't know it at the time, but her birth
coincided with one of the most significant days in all of history. Read
about her simple birth announcement, and about that historic day, at
http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/DDay.html.
-------

Ads
  #2  
Old July 2nd 03, 06:32 AM
Tracy Barber
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 04:06:43 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

Can anyone please tell me what the 1940 rate would be for an airmail letter,
weighing 3.5 grams, mailed from Germany to Argentina? A cover I have is
franked with one 25m commemorative stamp (Scott #497) and two Hindenburg
definitives of 100m and 50m.


Bob - do you mean 100 pf and 50 pf? Hindenburg, afaik, was not on a
"Mark" stamp.

(Since the definitives are on cover, I can't be sure whether they are the
1933 issue or the 1933-36 issue, which was watermarked with a swastika. Not
that this has anything to do with my question, although it would be
interesting to know. The cover was mailed by a Jew from Krefeld in 1940.)


Interesting, at that point in history...

Tracy Barber
  #3  
Old July 2nd 03, 06:46 AM
Dimitri Debruyne
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Default

Hi Bob

Surface postage rate was 0.25 Rm to all foreign countries (for the first
20gr, each additional 20gr was 0.15Rm).
Registration was 0.30 Rm.
Special delivery was 0.50 Rm.

Airmail surcharge to Argentina (via LATI) was 1.50Rm each 5gr
Airmail surcharge to Argentina (via PANAM) was 0.55Rm if flown from New York
only (by sea from germany) or 0.80Rm if flown all the way (each 5gr)

So it looks like your cover was flown via LATI (0.25 + 1.50) to avoid
censorship by the allies. If you have postmark dates on that cover I can
have a look with what plane the letter was flown ...

Best regards

Dimitri

"Tracy Barber" schreef in bericht
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 04:06:43 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

Can anyone please tell me what the 1940 rate would be for an airmail

letter,
weighing 3.5 grams, mailed from Germany to Argentina? A cover I have is
franked with one 25m commemorative stamp (Scott #497) and two Hindenburg
definitives of 100m and 50m.


Bob - do you mean 100 pf and 50 pf? Hindenburg, afaik, was not on a
"Mark" stamp.

(Since the definitives are on cover, I can't be sure whether they are the
1933 issue or the 1933-36 issue, which was watermarked with a swastika.

Not
that this has anything to do with my question, although it would be
interesting to know. The cover was mailed by a Jew from Krefeld in 1940.)


Interesting, at that point in history...

Tracy Barber



  #4  
Old July 3rd 03, 04:17 AM
Bob Ingraham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 04:06:43 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

Can anyone please tell me what the 1940 rate would be for an airmail letter,
weighing 3.5 grams, mailed from Germany to Argentina? A cover I have is
franked with one 25m commemorative stamp (Scott #497) and two Hindenburg
definitives of 100m and 50m.


Bob - do you mean 100 pf and 50 pf? Hindenburg, afaik, was not on a
"Mark" stamp.


Thanks for the lesson in currencies of the past! I meant "mark," but I was
obviously wrong. Pfennig it is. Deutschmarks weren't apparently used before
1948.

(Since the definitives are on cover, I can't be sure whether they are the
1933 issue or the 1933-36 issue, which was watermarked with a swastika. Not
that this has anything to do with my question, although it would be
interesting to know. The cover was mailed by a Jew from Krefeld in 1940.)


Interesting, at that point in history... v


Very interesting indeed, and the subject of a new web page I am working on.
Germany in 1940 was not a good place to be Jewish! And this cover is
particularly interesting because it is an "Israel" cover that has nothing to
do with Israel the nation. Stay tuned.

Bob

Tracy Barber


  #5  
Old July 3rd 03, 04:39 AM
Bob Ingraham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



From: "Dimitri Debruyne"


Subject: German wartime international airmail rate

Hi Bob

Surface postage rate was 0.25 Rm to all foreign countries (for the first
20gr, each additional 20gr was 0.15Rm).
Registration was 0.30 Rm.
Special delivery was 0.50 Rm.

Airmail surcharge to Argentina (via LATI) was 1.50Rm each 5gr
Airmail surcharge to Argentina (via PANAM) was 0.55Rm if flown from New York
only (by sea from germany) or 0.80Rm if flown all the way (each 5gr)

So it looks like your cover was flown via LATI (0.25 + 1.50) to avoid
censorship by the allies. If you have postmark dates on that cover I can
have a look with what plane the letter was flown ...


Thanks for the information, Dimitri. Can you tell me what your source was?
Perhaps there's a book that I need in my library....

The cover was mailed on May 16, 1940, and was backstamped, apparently in
Argentina, on May 29. I have uploaded images of the cancellations to my web
site:

Krefeld cancel: http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/krefeldcancelfront.jpg
Argentina (?) backstamp : http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/krefeldbackstamp.jpg

(I am not sure if that backstamp is Argentinian. What do you think?)

Would I be wrong to guess the plane was the Savoia-Marchetti S.M.83? Linee
Aeree Transcontinentali Italiane - LATI* was flying that aircraft in 1939,
according to the web site at
http://airlines.afriqonline.com/aircraft/bydecade/1930.htm.

Would you have information on the route the aircraft/cover might have taken?

Bob



Airline:*
Best regards

Dimitri

"Tracy Barber" schreef in bericht
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 04:06:43 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

Can anyone please tell me what the 1940 rate would be for an airmail

letter,
weighing 3.5 grams, mailed from Germany to Argentina? A cover I have is
franked with one 25m commemorative stamp (Scott #497) and two Hindenburg
definitives of 100m and 50m.


Bob - do you mean 100 pf and 50 pf? Hindenburg, afaik, was not on a
"Mark" stamp.

(Since the definitives are on cover, I can't be sure whether they are the
1933 issue or the 1933-36 issue, which was watermarked with a swastika.

Not
that this has anything to do with my question, although it would be
interesting to know. The cover was mailed by a Jew from Krefeld in 1940.)


Interesting, at that point in history...

Tracy Barber




  #6  
Old July 3rd 03, 05:38 AM
TC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 04:06:43 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

Can anyone please tell me what the 1940 rate would be for an airmail letter,
weighing 3.5 grams, mailed from Germany to Argentina? A cover I have is
franked with one 25m commemorative stamp (Scott #497) and two Hindenburg
definitives of 100m and 50m.

(Since the definitives are on cover, I can't be sure whether they are the
1933 issue or the 1933-36 issue, which was watermarked with a swastika. Not
that this has anything to do with my question, although it would be
interesting to know. The cover was mailed by a Jew from Krefeld in 1940.)

Bob Ingraham

-------
Baby Elizabeth Ann Morgan didn't know it at the time, but her birth
coincided with one of the most significant days in all of history. Read
about her simple birth announcement, and about that historic day, at
http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/DDay.html.
-------


Bob:

0.25 Marks postage (20 g). 1.50 Marks airmail (5g).

Service via italian airliner (service via USA was cheaper, but slower)
I believe they flew via Brazil.

The Italy and Colonies Study Circle journal has several articles on
the LATI services,

L.A.T.I. Vol XXVII/77
L.A.T.I. Vol XXVI/73
L.A.T.I. Vol XXVIII/91, 122
L.A.T.I. - first flight covers Vol XXI/153; XXII/74
L.A.T.I. - further information Vol XXIII/92; XXIV/137, 182;
XXV/35, 165
L.A.T.I. - "jusqu a Recife" Vol XIX/130
L.A.T.I. - Latin American Air Service Vol XIV/24
L.A.T.I. - not always returned to sender Vol XX/89
L.A.T.I. Revisited Vol XXVIII/(15) 63
L.A.T.I. Services - some notes Vol XXV/59
L.A.T.I. The French Connection Vol XXVIII/89

You can reach ICSC at: http://www.icsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Hope this is helpful.

Blair




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  #7  
Old July 3rd 03, 07:05 AM
Dimitri Debruyne
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Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Bob,

Between May 16 and May 29 there were 2 east-west flights from LATI: one on
May 18 and one on May 25 (leaving from Rome and arriving in Rio De Janeiro).
The trip would normally have taken 72 hours (to Rio), and from there a
connecting flight to Buenos Aires (most likely via Sindicato Condor or
Panair do Brasil; this flight took at least 1 day).
This makes May 25 impossible if we assume that the backstamp is argentinian
(I don't recognize it though)

The May 18 flight was indeed flown with an SM83 immatriculated I-AZUR
(Pilot: Moretti). Later in the war LATI started using SM82, SM75 and SM76
(see R. Beith, The Italian South Atlantic Air Mail Service)

The route was : Rome - Sevilla - Villa Cisneros (Spanish Sahara) - Sal (Cape
Verde) - Recife - Rio de Janeiro

This route was extended to include Buenos Aires in 1941.

Hope this helps.

Dimitri

"Bob Ingraham" schreef in bericht
...


From: "Dimitri Debruyne"


Subject: German wartime international airmail rate

Hi Bob

Surface postage rate was 0.25 Rm to all foreign countries (for the first
20gr, each additional 20gr was 0.15Rm).
Registration was 0.30 Rm.
Special delivery was 0.50 Rm.

Airmail surcharge to Argentina (via LATI) was 1.50Rm each 5gr
Airmail surcharge to Argentina (via PANAM) was 0.55Rm if flown from New

York
only (by sea from germany) or 0.80Rm if flown all the way (each 5gr)

So it looks like your cover was flown via LATI (0.25 + 1.50) to avoid
censorship by the allies. If you have postmark dates on that cover I can
have a look with what plane the letter was flown ...


Thanks for the information, Dimitri. Can you tell me what your source was?
Perhaps there's a book that I need in my library....

The cover was mailed on May 16, 1940, and was backstamped, apparently in
Argentina, on May 29. I have uploaded images of the cancellations to my

web
site:

Krefeld cancel: http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/krefeldcancelfront.jpg
Argentina (?) backstamp :

http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/krefeldbackstamp.jpg

(I am not sure if that backstamp is Argentinian. What do you think?)

Would I be wrong to guess the plane was the Savoia-Marchetti S.M.83? Linee
Aeree Transcontinentali Italiane - LATI was flying that aircraft in 1939,
according to the web site at
http://airlines.afriqonline.com/aircraft/bydecade/1930.htm.

Would you have information on the route the aircraft/cover might have

taken?

Bob



Airline:
Best regards

Dimitri

"Tracy Barber" schreef in bericht
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 04:06:43 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

Can anyone please tell me what the 1940 rate would be for an airmail

letter,
weighing 3.5 grams, mailed from Germany to Argentina? A cover I have

is
franked with one 25m commemorative stamp (Scott #497) and two

Hindenburg
definitives of 100m and 50m.

Bob - do you mean 100 pf and 50 pf? Hindenburg, afaik, was not on a
"Mark" stamp.

(Since the definitives are on cover, I can't be sure whether they are

the
1933 issue or the 1933-36 issue, which was watermarked with a

swastika.
Not
that this has anything to do with my question, although it would be
interesting to know. The cover was mailed by a Jew from Krefeld in

1940.)

Interesting, at that point in history...

Tracy Barber






  #8  
Old July 3rd 03, 12:26 PM
TC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:39:12 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:



From: "Dimitri Debruyne"


Subject: German wartime international airmail rate

Hi Bob

Surface postage rate was 0.25 Rm to all foreign countries (for the first
20gr, each additional 20gr was 0.15Rm).
Registration was 0.30 Rm.
Special delivery was 0.50 Rm.

Airmail surcharge to Argentina (via LATI) was 1.50Rm each 5gr
Airmail surcharge to Argentina (via PANAM) was 0.55Rm if flown from New York
only (by sea from germany) or 0.80Rm if flown all the way (each 5gr)

So it looks like your cover was flown via LATI (0.25 + 1.50) to avoid
censorship by the allies. If you have postmark dates on that cover I can
have a look with what plane the letter was flown ...


Thanks for the information, Dimitri. Can you tell me what your source was?
Perhaps there's a book that I need in my library....

The cover was mailed on May 16, 1940, and was backstamped, apparently in
Argentina, on May 29. I have uploaded images of the cancellations to my web
site:

Krefeld cancel: http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/krefeldcancelfront.jpg
Argentina (?) backstamp : http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/krefeldbackstamp.jpg

(I am not sure if that backstamp is Argentinian. What do you think?)


Bob:

It is the cancel of Branch (SUC) 26 of the Buenos Aires post Office,
still in action as of 1998 (Postal Code 1426). It seems to be
allocated to the university (suc. colegiale) , as an instructor there
had a PO Box there in 1998. His address was:

(name removed)
C.C 125 -SUC 26 B.
CODIGO POSTAL 1426.
CAPITAL FEDERAL.
REPUBLICA ARGENTINA



Would you have information on the route the aircraft/cover might have taken?


Possibly via Recife Brazil. Same route the Zepplins took.


Hope this helps.

Blair





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