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#1
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Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic
Hi all,
First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum! I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. Comes up with error messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget' that I fixed the problems. Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I have it programmes for freeplay. I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong with the memory on the machine. I can find no battery so I'm figuring this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have). Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please? Many thanks Andy |
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#2
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Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic
On Dec 27, 1:21*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote: Hi all, First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum! I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. *Comes up with error messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget' that I fixed the problems. *Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I have it programmes for freeplay. I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong with the memory on the machine. *I can find no battery so I'm figuring this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have). Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please? Many thanks Andy -- Andy Bilton Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use. If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e squared" memory. These would typically be an 8 pin IC. These are FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. They do wear out after about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail. These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and we believe this is what nuked the chip) Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to) every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting is changed. If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on" function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every time the machine is turned on. It is also possible that multiple data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data. The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip. These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had battery and ram enclosed inside this block. If faulty you will likely need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have "Dallas semiconductor" written on them. You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but there is a risk of rendering it unusable. |
#3
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Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 21:26:37 -0800 (PST), kreed
wrote: On Dec 27, 1:21*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton. wrote: Hi all, First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum! I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. *Comes up with error messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget' that I fixed the problems. *Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I have it programmes for freeplay. I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong with the memory on the machine. *I can find no battery so I'm figuring this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have). Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please? Many thanks Andy -- Andy Bilton Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use. If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e squared" memory. These would typically be an 8 pin IC. These are FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. They do wear out after about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail. These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and we believe this is what nuked the chip) Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to) every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting is changed. If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on" function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every time the machine is turned on. It is also possible that multiple data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data. The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip. These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had battery and ram enclosed inside this block. If faulty you will likely need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have "Dallas semiconductor" written on them. You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but there is a risk of rendering it unusable. The Performer series have a NVRAM chip with integral battery. It sounds like this battery has come to the end of its life. This is more and more common for these jukes at the age they are. It needs to be replaced (note you will have to reprogram when you put the new one in). It is located on the Centrale board (front of stack on back wall of juke). I don't remember the location number, but is should be obvious as it is a "thicker" chip than all the others. Happ Controls have these(look under jukeboxes/parts/NSM, etc.), as will any other distributor that handles NSM parts. I believe it is the same chip for ES IV and ES V series (Classics are ES V if I recall). ES IV have white player boxes and ES V have black player boxes. I am not aware that anyone has successfuly replaced a battery in these chips, but somebody may have. The new replacement costs about $60 to $70. On location, these jukes can be left on 24/7, until a new NVRAM chip can be installed, but this may not be a viable option in home use. Irwin |
#4
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Can anyone shed any further light on my conundrum please? Cheers Andy |
#5
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Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic
The NSM Performer Classic is an ES-V series machine with the battery- backed memory chip at IC5. Unlike the ES-IV series, this chip also contains the timekeeper clock circuit as well. The replacement is made by ST Microelectronics as part number M48T18-100PC1 ~Ann Marie http://www.cdadapter.com/ |
#6
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Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic
On Dec 28, 12:49*am, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 21:26:37 -0800 (PST), kreed wrote: On Dec 27, 1:21 am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton. wrote: Hi all, First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum! I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. Comes up with error messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget' that I fixed the problems. Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I have it programmes for freeplay. I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong with the memory on the machine. I can find no battery so I'm figuring this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have). Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please? Many thanks Andy -- Andy Bilton Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use. If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e squared" memory. *These would typically be an 8 pin IC. *These are FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. * They do wear out after about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail. These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and we believe this is what nuked the chip) Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to) every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting is changed. *If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on" function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every time the machine is turned on. * It is also possible that multiple data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data. The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip. These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had battery and ram enclosed inside this block. *If faulty you will likely need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have "Dallas semiconductor" written on them. You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but there is a risk of rendering it unusable. The Performer series have a NVRAM chip with integral battery. *It sounds like this battery has come to the end of its life. *This is more and more common for these jukes at the age they are. *It needs to be replaced (note you will have to reprogram when you put the new one in). *It is located on the Centrale board (front of stack on back wall of juke). *I don't remember the location number, but is should be obvious as it is a "thicker" chip than all the others. Happ Controls have these(look under jukeboxes/parts/NSM, etc.), as will any other distributor that handles NSM parts. *I believe it is the same chip for ES IV and ES V series (Classics are ES V if I recall). *ES IV have white player boxes and ES V have black player boxes. I am not aware that anyone has successfuly replaced a battery in these chips, but somebody may have. *The new replacement costs about $60 to $70. Looked up my notes, On the Dallas 6116 replacements, (can't remember the number) the battery is in the top (not the side with the pins), The top can be carefully cut away, and the battery replaced. It is a small lithium coin cell. Try to cut around the edges, not through the centre as you may cut the battery open, which may make it short internally and heat up, and/or leak. Dremel type tool with a suitable cutting wheel is used. Wear eye protection in case you hit the battery and metal shavings come out, or acid. Taking it out of the board is advised, or at very least cover the rest of the board and its parts with something to protect them from the cuttings and anything else. The IC itself is underneath, where the pins are, so it wont be damaged by cutting around the top part If they want that much for the replacement, then its definitely worth trying. You can then replace it again in another 10-15 years or so when it fails again if you are still involved in this sort of thing then On location, these jukes can be left on 24/7, until a new NVRAM chip can be installed, but this may not be a viable option in home use. Irwin |
#7
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Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic
On Dec 28, 5:20*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote: kreed;666813 Wrote: On Dec 27, 1:21*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton. wrote:- Hi all, First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum! I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. *Comes up with error messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget' that I fixed the problems. *Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I have it programmes for freeplay. I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong with the memory on the machine. *I can find no battery so I'm figuring this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have). Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please? Many thanks Andy -- Andy Bilton- Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use. If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e squared" memory. *These would typically be an 8 pin IC. *These are FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. * They do wear out after about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail. These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and we believe this is what nuked the chip) Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to) every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting is changed. *If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on" function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every time the machine is turned on. * It is also possible that multiple data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data. The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip. These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had battery and ram enclosed inside this block. *If faulty you will likely need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have "Dallas semiconductor" written on them. You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but there is a risk of rendering it unusable. Thanks for your post Kreed. *I had another look at the manual and it says that the temporary memory is stored in 'battery bufered RAM'. *This would appear to be a chip noted as IC 5 which has 20 pins. *I had a real good luck on the board that this chip is set in and can find nothing that looks anything like a battery. *I even took the chip out but there was nothing resembling a battery underneath. *Whilst out I noticed the chip has the following numbers underneath 48T18A9 and H228236. *From my limited knowledge gained from tinkering with pinball machines I suspect this to be one of these 'flash' RAM chips as it has a label stuck over the top of it to cover up the 'flashable' spots. They are not FLASH ram, these are Eprom. They can only be erased with UV light exposure then re-programmed. There is a pin taken to +12 / 24V (depending on the type) during this programming. (called burning). FLASH is similar to what is now used in digital camera cards etc. You write something electrically into it and it stays there indefinitely without any power. AN EPROM does the same thing, but you need the 20 min of UV to erase it. It doesn't need special voltages to do this. Both can be electrically rewritten a certain number of times, fairly quickly and can have unlimited reads. Normal RAM can be read/written to indefinitely and is very fast. It will lose this content though without power. CMOS (low power) RAM has been used for a long time in Pinballs, Games, Jukeboxes etc for holding data, as well as sometimes also being used as general purpose RAM for the CPU during its operations. (IE - All ROWE Laserstar CCC Boards). The battery is used to keep power to this RAM while the mains is turned off so the content is not lost. Can anyone shed any further light on my conundrum please? Cheers Andy -- Andy Bilton |
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