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#21
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Rick, i never put padding in my Q160 as my main focus was on the 201...
I posted pics of how it is installed in my 201 at the alt.binaries.pictures.radio N/G.... I think I will start tweeking the Q160 with padding and see how it sounds ...............George "george craig" wrote in message ... My Seeburg Q160 is similar to the 222 and has the 6973 output tubes, and 7199 as driver.... as I recall , the 222 amp has 6973 outputs a 12AX7A as driver... I moded my Q160 amp and run with the AGC tubes pulled , the cartridge is the origional type with the grey diamond needles bass boost is set to MID position and trebel is set to MAX position origional equipment speakers which includes a crossover and tweeter.... My Q160 has quite a bit of punchy bass but the mid range and trebel could be better and cleaner sounding...... Me thinks the cartridge in the Q160 is not as good as the stereo cartridge used in later 60's jukes....... the 345-03D was a mono version of this cartridge .... these cartridges all have diferent plugs and would require changing the tone arm or making an adaptor to fit.....I finally decided to just leave it stock.. but at some time I will look into changing the tone arm and cartridge .......George "Rick Force" wrote in message om... hi George, The coaxials are Atlas/Soundolier C123, 12" woofers with 3" post mounted tweeters, 16ohm, 25 watts. "george craig" wrote in message ... Rick , what type of coaxial speakers are you using??? you state your 222 has muddy bass on new 80's 90's records with bass boost set to max ...you might try putting acoustic dampening material behind the speakers this will absorb internal reflections that will clean up mid range frequencies and dampen boom with the bass boost set to max... as an experiment try using a couple of towels ....the closer they are to the speaker the greater the dampening effect......George |
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#22
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Mark, I am particularly swamped right now but let me suggest that you
contact Jewel Recording, Kinney Ave. Cincinnati, OH , Rusty York chief engineer. He still has a 45RPM lathe in his recording studio where he used to cut masters. He will know considerably more than I from memory. His web site is www.jewelrecords.com "Mark Robinson" wrote in message news:BvDhd.3837$304.1327@trndny06... Hi Jim, Thanks for the feedback. I'd be interested in any info or references to info you have on groove profiles. I've been working on a homebrew recording lathe and I am still learning about recording standards and practices (past and present). I agree there has been big advances in speaker design over the years, but I still feel most of the improvements to circuit design were already in place in the late 40's and early 50's. The Hi-Fi revolution really began in the 50's. It was mostly a process of getting the cost down to the level that average consumers could afford. Mark |
#23
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Thanks George for the input...i'll follow your progress to see how it
goes. My 222 has the original red head with grey diamond needles. I had to try several vendors before I found "T'" that sounded ok. I too think about swapping in a later stereo arm/ cart just to buy cheaper needles, let alone the sound Rick. "george craig" wrote in message ... My Seeburg Q160 is similar to the 222 and has the 6973 output tubes, and 7199 as driver.... as I recall , the 222 amp has 6973 outputs a 12AX7A as driver... I moded my Q160 amp and run with the AGC tubes pulled , the cartridge is the origional type with the grey diamond needles bass boost is set to MID position and trebel is set to MAX position origional equipment speakers which includes a crossover and tweeter.... My Q160 has quite a bit of punchy bass but the mid range and trebel could be better and cleaner sounding...... Me thinks the cartridge in the Q160 is not as good as the stereo cartridge used in later 60's jukes....... the 345-03D was a mono version of this cartridge .... these cartridges all have diferent plugs and would require changing the tone arm or making an adaptor to fit.....I finally decided to just leave it stock.. but at some time I will look into changing the tone arm and cartridge .......George "Rick Force" wrote in message om... hi George, The coaxials are Atlas/Soundolier C123, 12" woofers with 3" post mounted tweeters, 16ohm, 25 watts. "george craig" wrote in message ... Rick , what type of coaxial speakers are you using??? you state your 222 has muddy bass on new 80's 90's records with bass boost set to max ...you might try putting acoustic dampening material behind the speakers this will absorb internal reflections that will clean up mid range frequencies and dampen boom with the bass boost set to max... as an experiment try using a couple of towels ....the closer they are to the speaker the greater the dampening effect......George |
#24
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I am beggining to think this talk about groove pitch and needles is
touching on `` audio phile`` ground where most of us cant hear a difference . I am no expert but have played hundreds of records on dozens of record players of all kinds and done needle experiments on turntables and in jukeboxes and the range in sound on 45 rpm records with a good 45 rpm needle is mostly due to the way the record was recorded and not tiny technical differences in needles . These are just jukeboxes made to put out decent ``sound`` for the public to spend their change on not high end audio systems with life like speakers . You can put the same record on one machine and 5 different people will hear it different .. it can be hard to tell another person what sounds good or `right` because we all hear different . I think many machines lack in real deep nice modern bass because the crude rumble from the record motor would come out like mad . Just hook a modern subwoofer to an old 50`s juke and you will see what i mean :-) |
#25
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for the info. I may bug him. Mark "Jim Murphy" wrote in message ... Mark, I am particularly swamped right now but let me suggest that you contact Jewel Recording, Kinney Ave. Cincinnati, OH , Rusty York chief engineer. He still has a 45RPM lathe in his recording studio where he used to cut masters. He will know considerably more than I from memory. His web site is www.jewelrecords.com "Mark Robinson" wrote in message news:BvDhd.3837$304.1327@trndny06... Hi Jim, Thanks for the feedback. I'd be interested in any info or references to info you have on groove profiles. I've been working on a homebrew recording lathe and I am still learning about recording standards and practices (past and present). I agree there has been big advances in speaker design over the years, but I still feel most of the improvements to circuit design were already in place in the late 40's and early 50's. The Hi-Fi revolution really began in the 50's. It was mostly a process of getting the cost down to the level that average consumers could afford. Mark |
#26
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Hi Ken,
I think you are right on the money. At the high frequency end of the spectrum, the manufacturers had to deal with the fact that after many plays the records (and styli) would start to degrade. If the high frequency response was extended to what would be considered Hi-Fi by today's standards, the resulting distortion would sound horrible. The result of this is that many of these boxes sound ok with poorer quality records. Conversely, they don't sound much better with good quality records. If you come at the hobby with a Hi-Fi home stereo expectation, you will probably be disappointed in the sound. Later model boxes evolved into higher fidelity because the general population became used to higher quality sound. So boxes tracked lighter, had better designed cabinets and speaker systems, and the voicing was tailored to modern tastes. To me, the old 50's boxes sound warm but tend to lack the detail you find in a modern home stereo. Some records sound amazing on these boxes and others make my ears want to bleed. I don't stress over it. Mark "Ken G." wrote in message ... I am beggining to think this talk about groove pitch and needles is touching on `` audio phile`` ground where most of us cant hear a difference . I am no expert but have played hundreds of records on dozens of record players of all kinds and done needle experiments on turntables and in jukeboxes and the range in sound on 45 rpm records with a good 45 rpm needle is mostly due to the way the record was recorded and not tiny technical differences in needles . These are just jukeboxes made to put out decent ``sound`` for the public to spend their change on not high end audio systems with life like speakers . You can put the same record on one machine and 5 different people will hear it different .. it can be hard to tell another person what sounds good or `right` because we all hear different . I think many machines lack in real deep nice modern bass because the crude rumble from the record motor would come out like mad . Just hook a modern subwoofer to an old 50`s juke and you will see what i mean :-) |
#27
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Also the bass response couldn't be extended because of feedback.I had a lot of
fun getting the setup right on my home stereo to eliminate feedback at high volumes without turning the bass down for playing records.I have the old school large woofer speakers with 15" woofers and can only get the speakers about 3 to 4 ft away from the turntable in my living room.In jukeboxes the woofers are right in there with the turntable.My jukes don't go quite as deep on the bass or go quite as loud but they have sufficient bass to sound decent.The highs will never be as crisp on a 45 juke as a home stereo.If they were you could only play newer records with very few plays in them without getting a lot of noise.Some of the older original 45s I can't bear to listen to on my stereo play a lot cleaner in the jukebox. |
#28
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Mark and (Jim ? )
Agreed fully . I own a Wurlitzer 1250 made in 1950 it sounds great but not real strong on bass accept a good record it shakes the floor ... anyway this machine has one big 15`` speaker . The amp has a socket for an external amp of all things . I got curious and plugged an amp in . The sound i got was far better than expected with super crisp highs and good bass . The modern powered sub woofer flunked this test though :-) My Seeburg G plays some pretty scratched up records very clean .. intersting ..the 1250 does not hide the scratches well . |
#29
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if you use one of the not so good looking fold ups you can always repaint
them and look for repo video machine graphics to stick to it to make it look like an giant arcade machine jim w "Ken G." wrote in message ... Mark and (Jim ? ) Agreed fully . I own a Wurlitzer 1250 made in 1950 it sounds great but not real strong on bass accept a good record it shakes the floor ... anyway this machine has one big 15`` speaker . The amp has a socket for an external amp of all things . I got curious and plugged an amp in . The sound i got was far better than expected with super crisp highs and good bass . The modern powered sub woofer flunked this test though :-) My Seeburg G plays some pretty scratched up records very clean .. intersting ..the 1250 does not hide the scratches well . |
#30
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If memory serves correctly the 1250 uses a cobra cart which will pick up
highs better than some of the crystal types. The amp had some compensation circuitry to de-emphasise the scratches. This is true of many jukebox amps with some having switches allowing the operator to determine the level of compensation. "Ken G." wrote in message ... Mark and (Jim ? ) Agreed fully . I own a Wurlitzer 1250 made in 1950 it sounds great but not real strong on bass accept a good record it shakes the floor ... anyway this machine has one big 15`` speaker . The amp has a socket for an external amp of all things . I got curious and plugged an amp in . The sound i got was far better than expected with super crisp highs and good bass . The modern powered sub woofer flunked this test though :-) My Seeburg G plays some pretty scratched up records very clean .. intersting ..the 1250 does not hide the scratches well . |
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