cost of Star Tiger: worth it?

So I bit the bullet today and signed up with them. They had a free
coupon for a month but they got wise now and made you get a credit
card on there (which I do not like but I see why they do it).

So I went through all 7 Harry Potter movies and down the cast lists
and typed in probably a hundred or so different names. I think I
found THREE potential ones on there (that I didn't have or had
potential for a success as most were newly pending). I think of the
three, only ONE had a real probability of working.

With all that work I did to yeild even three? Not sure if 5 bucks is
worth it.

My next question is are people reporting their successes there? Are
they reporting their pendings? I saw a ton on there I tried and
nothing was on there (0 RTS, 0 successes and 0 pendings). I did add a
few but still, I am sure people tried these?

so what IS the main problem over there? Or is it not them and just
nobody IS signing these days?

It's a shame too. I've noticed a trend ni the Harry Potter graphs.
Not many signing now. ESPECIALLY kids. Anyone under 23 is not
signing. Maybe a small handful (like Ginny Wright or perhaps one or
two of the older ones) but really, it looks like they all don't want
anything to do with Potter. It's my guess in 10 years, they'll be
back; begging for someone to remember them.

On 22 Mai, 21:46, Sue H wrote:
So I bit the bullet today and signed up with them. *They had a free
coupon for a month but they got wise now and made you get a credit
card on there (which I do not like but I see why they do it). *

So I went through all 7 Harry Potter movies and down the cast lists
and typed in probably a hundred or so different names. *I think I
found THREE potential ones on there (that I didn't have or had
potential for a success as most were newly pending). *I think of the
three, only ONE had a real probability of working. *

With all that work I did to yeild even three? *Not sure if 5 bucks is
worth it. *

My next question is are people reporting their successes there? *Are
they reporting their pendings? I saw a ton on there I tried and
nothing was on there (0 RTS, 0 successes and 0 pendings). *I did add a
few but still, I am sure people tried these?

so what IS the main problem over there? *Or is it not them and just
nobody IS signing these days? *

It's a shame too. I've noticed a trend ni the Harry Potter graphs.
Not many signing now. *ESPECIALLY kids. *Anyone under 23 is not
signing. *Maybe a small handful (like Ginny Wright or perhaps one or
two of the older ones) but really, it looks like they all don't want
anything to do with Potter. *It's my guess in 10 years, they'll be
back; begging for someone to remember them.

Hi Sue,

i do not know which names you searched, but i wanted to give you some
first hand tips on how to make full use of StarTiger.

First of all, since you do look for the Harry Potter cast, we do
feature a seperate "Harry Potter" category.
To access this category:
- Login to StarTiger
- Select "Browse" from the top menu
- Select "Performing Arts" from the categories
- Select the "Selected Movie/TV Casts" subcategory
- Select the "Harry Potter" subcategory

Currently the category contains 112 cast members of the Harry Potter
movies.
(Non-Members can also preview the category content at
http://www.startiger.com/category_Ha..._id071602.html )

The category will give you a quick starting point - Please note that
if a name you are looking for is not listed in this category, the
celebrity may still be listed (but simply not categorized in the Harry
Potter category yet). To see if this is the case, search for the name
directly.

Second, if a celebrity you want to write is not listed, you can submit
an address request, and we will try to find one.
You can find more information on address requests in our help section
at:
http://www.startiger.com/help.php?id=30
and
http://www.startiger.com/help.php?id=31

Third, we now also provide a history summary for many agencies. This
will allow you to see if someone received a response for other
celebrities from the listed agency, and may give you an idea of how
good the agency is with forwarding mail.

We recently updated and added a large number of current address
details for more than 2000 agencies, sport teams, record labels &
more, covering tens of thousands of celebrities. Since there are so
many recent new address additions & updates, not all of them have been
used yet, but we continually update these agencies to make sure the
information is current and valid (e.g. just during the last 7 days
nearly 20,000 changes, updates and additions were made to our
database).

And last, but certainly not least, please don't forget that we have a
very active forum that you can use to discuss with other collectors,
to ask questions and to find answers. Plus, if you have any questions
regarding specific functions within StarTiger or how to use certain
aspects of StarTiger, we recently updated our help section with a new
"[Getting Started]" and more extended help topics (see our help
section at http://www.startiger.com/help.php). And of course if your
question is not answered there you can also contact us directly.

I hope this helps you to make use the StarTiger Community more fully,

See you around!

Markus Geilfuss
http://www.startiger.com
The Autograph Community

Well for me, I am a problem because first, I am the one where a lot of
info could come from (I prefer doing my own research FIRST) so I
usually get all the main people right away (whoever is apt to sign).
I was on there yesterday with a free trial for hours. I looked up
names individually one by one. I would probably keep the account one
more month though, to harvest all I can... then what I'll do is try
them. I tried almost every address you had on there in my past and
see I got RTS's or pendings and you have nothing reported. but I
didn't have time to annotate every new address or other addresses you
did NOT have that I've tried and either got a success or RTS for or
are pending (I did some I felt were pretty relevant etc). I really
don't feel like I should pay to give YOU all the info I have. That
doesn't make sense. I also felt like a lot of people are putting
addresses on there for no reason, and not sure where they come from as
nobody has ever tested them.... but are they really? I suspect they
are and not reporting their results. That hurts the community.

I did last night, for the first time, come across about 8 or so
addresses that might be worth trying. However, I had not researched
these yet first, so I am GUESSING probably 6 of them I could find
right off. So for the potential of 2 addresses after spending 4 hours
on there.... and the potential that those two will yield a success,
it's not worth it. Do you see what I mean? It's not Star Tiger's
fault. It's the people not reporting that are

1) putting untested addresses on there without intentions of ever
doing anything after
2) people not really reporting what they are trying. (for the record,
I probably added 30 Pendings the other day and 10 RTS's overall). But
I was definitely NOT interested in giving you new addresses I found
through hours of research that I just tried. I want my success first
and that of Paul's and Friends groups first. You know, where everyone
is AWESOME and not talking about one another.
3) there's a LOT and I mean a LOT of old info. I don't know how you
could police this, so I can't fault the site. I see where there's a
good job with plays and removing them when they expire (or other
venues) but there are many, many addresses where the person left the
agency YEARS ago.

Recommendations. I don't know how much money Star Tiger makes. But
you have to SPEND money to make money. When you have volunteers,
that's well and good. But a paid position might be in order.
Literally pay someone a salary to do a few things to improve your site
and the potential for a money making site would be phenomenal. You
could have someone out there researching plays. Or someone going
through and calling agencies for current client lists (and then cross
referencing those lists to the 'extra' people being reported at that
same agency (so you can delete them). You need to have people
researching addresses... verifying. Getting rid of useless info. You
need to have people shooting you ideas like holding a contest or other
"incentives" to get people to take a couple hours of their time and
post info there (for example, a free month if you take your list and
go through it and post at least 50 pieces of new information (whether
it be RTS's, Pending, or addresses they forgot to report before, or
scanning images). If you can track how many things people have
submitted (don't know what your capability is), then you could do
really well. Or start with 100 items (making it harder for first
level) and then a second free month for those posting an additional 75
and a third month for those doing 50 (to make it more to your benefit,
you can make it within a time limit; say a week, forcing people not to
do it here and there, but to actually sit down and do it immediately).

Now, because I am on a free trial and even if I actually pay for
another month, I cannot simply report my successes anymore.... because
most of those will take a lot longer before they come in. I am
guessing a lot of people do this? So you need to make them stay. How
I am not sure. I would probably be more apt to stay if more info was
reported and I knew you did not allow people to talk about anyone.
Tell them stick to the subject of collecting and no more. No name
calling, no flaming. See, you can do what you want... you can boot
people. Word on the street is the ones who cause problems are
probably high contributors so you don't want to say anything. You
really need to find a way to combat that.

The only HUGE problems I have with your site are personal ones. 1)
it's a closed off community that talks about other groups I hear
without benefit of those others hearing stuff about them. That should
be disallowed. NO TALKING ABOUT OTHERS if the others are not there to
defend themselves. 2) You really should NOT have to pay for address
information that is free, but I've been lightening up on this a bit
after I see you do offer "other information" that is of some limited
use. and finally 3) Once someone reports a success, you can't stop the
rush of people writing which I evidenced a LOT yesterday, proving my
theory... someone gets a success. Then 5 others report a success
within a month or so of that, then you'll see a dozen pending ones
after and then NOTHING from then on. This is telling me there was an
onslaught (if that many reported, twice as many did not report
anything as you know 75% of people are lurkers rather than workers) of
mail and the celebrity is no longer signing. I guess there's nothing
you can do about that, but I am a person who doesn't want to be part
of that. I prefer smaller groups. HOwever, I am MOST happy to report
RTS's, Pendings, other addresses I've tried, email addresses, scans
etc.

You need site statistics (like Ebay where you can track users etc and
who's doing what). You need a complaint system where a person is
flagged for being warned and then if a repeated offender of something,
is booted. you need to take that info and develop it. Star Tiger is
HUGE. It's on the verge of being something mega (and profit making)
but there is only staleness as the design and rest of it isn't
growing. Though I do appreciate INFO growing more than the looks;
ease of use etc. Don't get caught up in the Ebay trap where you have
to pay for too many upgrades that are not needed and then forced to
pass that to the customer. Subtle, easy changes to keep people
interested but stick with INFORMATION as that's what drove people
there in the first place and will always be why they are there. (as I
am writing this, I feel like I should start my own company.... LOL).

I hope something here helps. Just my thoughts from my recent perusing
(I have a few more films to go through and try too but not sure I will
be around to report the successes).


There are a few good things for a good researcher on Star Tiger.
People who've uploaded photos help by identification. So if you have
two people with the same name, you can look at what people have and
figure out which address is more the probability.

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 04:51:32 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On 22 Mai, 21:46, Sue H wrote:
So I bit the bullet today and signed up with them. *They had a free
coupon for a month but they got wise now and made you get a credit
card on there (which I do not like but I see why they do it). *

So I went through all 7 Harry Potter movies and down the cast lists
and typed in probably a hundred or so different names. *I think I
found THREE potential ones on there (that I didn't have or had
potential for a success as most were newly pending). *I think of the
three, only ONE had a real probability of working. *

With all that work I did to yeild even three? *Not sure if 5 bucks is
worth it. *

My next question is are people reporting their successes there? *Are
they reporting their pendings? I saw a ton on there I tried and
nothing was on there (0 RTS, 0 successes and 0 pendings). *I did add a
few but still, I am sure people tried these?

so what IS the main problem over there? *Or is it not them and just
nobody IS signing these days? *

It's a shame too. I've noticed a trend ni the Harry Potter graphs.
Not many signing now. *ESPECIALLY kids. *Anyone under 23 is not
signing. *Maybe a small handful (like Ginny Wright or perhaps one or
two of the older ones) but really, it looks like they all don't want
anything to do with Potter. *It's my guess in 10 years, they'll be
back; begging for someone to remember them.

Hi Sue,

i do not know which names you searched, but i wanted to give you some
first hand tips on how to make full use of StarTiger.

First of all, since you do look for the Harry Potter cast, we do
feature a seperate "Harry Potter" category.
To access this category:
- Login to StarTiger
- Select "Browse" from the top menu
- Select "Performing Arts" from the categories
- Select the "Selected Movie/TV Casts" subcategory
- Select the "Harry Potter" subcategory

Currently the category contains 112 cast members of the Harry Potter
movies.
(Non-Members can also preview the category content at
http://www.startiger.com/category_Ha..._id071602.html )

The category will give you a quick starting point - Please note that
if a name you are looking for is not listed in this category, the
celebrity may still be listed (but simply not categorized in the Harry
Potter category yet). To see if this is the case, search for the name
directly.

Second, if a celebrity you want to write is not listed, you can submit
an address request, and we will try to find one.
You can find more information on address requests in our help section
at:
http://www.startiger.com/help.php?id=30
and
http://www.startiger.com/help.php?id=31

Third, we now also provide a history summary for many agencies. This
will allow you to see if someone received a response for other
celebrities from the listed agency, and may give you an idea of how
good the agency is with forwarding mail.

We recently updated and added a large number of current address
details for more than 2000 agencies, sport teams, record labels &
more, covering tens of thousands of celebrities. Since there are so
many recent new address additions & updates, not all of them have been
used yet, but we continually update these agencies to make sure the
information is current and valid (e.g. just during the last 7 days
nearly 20,000 changes, updates and additions were made to our
database).

And last, but certainly not least, please don't forget that we have a
very active forum that you can use to discuss with other collectors,
to ask questions and to find answers. Plus, if you have any questions
regarding specific functions within StarTiger or how to use certain
aspects of StarTiger, we recently updated our help section with a new
"[Getting Started]" and more extended help topics (see our help
section at http://www.startiger.com/help.php). And of course if your
question is not answered there you can also contact us directly.

I hope this helps you to make use the StarTiger Community more fully,

See you around!

Markus Geilfuss
http://www.startiger.com
The Autograph Community

Hi Sue,

thank you very much for taking the time to compile such a detailed and
well formed response!

I do not know how much time you have spent within StarTiger so far and
its development over the years. This is not the same website anymore
that it was four years ago when we "went pay", and we have done
continous steps to address the issues you have raised in your post.

If this is ok with you, i would like to go through your post step by
step and address each part you mentioned.


Doing your own research is definitely the way to go! But StarTiger is
not something that is "aside" from research. It can be and should be
an integral part of your research.
Start your search at StarTiger. If you do not like the information you
get for a certain celebrity, continue your research beyond StarTiger.
If you come across a better address, you can submit it to StarTiger
(you can keep it private at first, if you want that - StarTiger allows
you to submit addresses as private and make them public later on). If
you don't, submit an address request.
In any case, i suggest referencing any address you find somewhere else
with our records. We also keep records of outdated addresses (of
course marked as such!) for this reason - so that if you find an
(outdated) address somewhere else, you can compare it and avoid it if
it is indeed outdated.

As for submitting information, there are many benefits for doing so.
It's not just simply for reporting your response to other collectors.
StarTiger is much more than that!

First of all, you get complete collection management when you submit
information. Everything you add is stored in your own personal
StarTiger area ("MyStars"), where you can access it, update it, change
it, search it and sort it by almost any criteria you want. You can
also connect the information, e.g. you can add scanned autographs to
your test results.
This alone can be a tremendous time saver if you use it.

Second, we also provide you with your own personal website,
"MyCollection". With just a few clicks you get your very own,
customizable website where you can present your collection - including
to non-members! And the great part is: Everytime you submit something
to StarTiger - be it scans, test results or similar, your personal
website will be automatically updated. This, again, can be a
tremendous time saver. MyCollection also comes with your own personal
blog, and it will stay online even if you are no longer a member.

You mention that you did not have time to annotate addresses; i
believe this is mainly the case because you keep a seperate collection
list, and would have to manually transfer this information to
StarTiger, one by one.
This would be completely different if you would make full use of all
StarTiger has to offer. For example, if you join for a year, the cost
per month will become almost neglibile compared to other costs in this
hobby. A year is less than 10 cents a day. Imagine how much time you
would save in terms of collection management alone.

Submitting information to StarTiger is easy, as in most cases the
address is already there. Simply click on "Mark as Pending" when you
send a letter, and on "Add Test Result" when you receive a response.
The current date is filled in by default, making it even faster for
you to submit the details. When using the "Pending" feature
beforehand, all the information you entered before are automatically
filled in when you submit a test result later on. And again: By doing
this you will have the benefits of a searchable, sortable,
automatically updated collection management and your own personal
collection website.

Additionally, if you submit information for a celebrity, a "notice
box" with this information will be shown to you when you visit the
celebrity listing. This way, when not sure if you already wrote a
celebrity and at what address, you simply have to enter the name in
the search box and view the listing to get all the information.

Third, and this is a rather new feature, you can create lists of
celebrities you collect. E.g. if you collect a certain sports team or
movie cast, you can create a list of all the persons you want to
collect.
And the good thing: The list will automatically show YOUR own
personal, current status for each of the celebrities, based on your
submissions. For example, if you sent out to 10 celebrities on your
Harry Potter list and received back 8 responses, the list will
automatically show "Success" for the 8 responses and "Pending" for the
2 remaining ones. This allows you to keep an excellent overview over
certain areas you collect.
Plus: To save you time, lists can be shared with other members, so
e.g. you can copy a list from another member as a starting point.
(there already exist several "Harry Potter" lists that you could use).

There are more benefits to submitting information, but i will stop
here for now because the text would simply get too long



1) putting untested addresses on there without intentions of ever
doing anything after

Adding untested addresses is not necessarily a bad thing, if they are
valid. Of course this also depends on the definition of "untested" in
this case.
For example, we recently updated listings for almost 2000 agencies,
teams, records labels etc, resulting in tens of thousands of new
addresses (and tens of thousands of removed addresses as well). And we
will continue to do these frequent updates on a much larger scale than
we ever did before.
Of course these new addresses do not feature a "test result" yet, as
no one has written to them yet. But that does not mean they are
completely "untested", as they are updated regularly - they just have
not been "tested" yet for this particular celebrity in the sense that
no one has written to the celebrity.

Given that we now feature 178,000+ celebrities, it is only natural
that not every celebrity is written to all the time. But again, we do
our best to update all address records, and in the past six months we
have made more changes, updates and additions than ever before. And we
will continue to do so!

2) people not really reporting what they are trying. *(for the record,
I probably added 30 Pendings the other day and 10 RTS's overall). *But
I was definitely NOT interested in giving you new addresses I found
through hours of research that I just tried. I want my success first
and that of Paul's and Friends groups first. *You know, where everyone
is AWESOME and not talking about one another.

StarTiger allows you to submit an address with a "private" option set.
This way no other member - except you - will be able to see or access
the address. Once you receive a response, you can set the address to
public with a simple mouse click.

3) there's a LOT and I mean a LOT of old info. *I don't know how you
could police this, so I can't fault the site. I see where there's a
good job with plays and removing them when they expire (or other
venues) but there are many, many addresses where the person left the
agency YEARS ago.


Again, we are currently actively updating many, many address listings.
New technologies which we developed especially for StarTiger now allow
us to do this on a much larger scale than ever before, and make very
active use of this.

Should you notice outdated information of ANY kind, please report them
to us and we will take care of it ASAP.
To report or update an address:
- Select "Edit/Update" from the listing menu
- Select "Correct an Address"

Recommendations. I don't know how much moneyStar Tigermakes. *But
you have to SPEND money to make money. *When you have volunteers,
that's well and good. *But a paid position might be in order.
Literally pay someone a salary to do a few things to improve your site
and the potential for a money making site would be phenomenal. You
could have someone out there researching plays. *Or someone going
through and calling agencies for current client lists (and then cross
referencing those lists to the 'extra' people being reported at that
same agency (so you can delete them). * You need to have people
researching addresses... verifying. *Getting rid of useless info. *

Yes, we are already updating agency/team/label listings and will
continue to do so on a large scale.

For example, in the first 5 months of 2008 alone, more than 210,000
changes have been made to the StarTiger database.
Out of these we
New Addresses: approx. 74,200
Removed Addresses: approx. 31,700

Of course we will also continue including more agencies and enhancing
our technologies to allow for even better, more acurate address
listings.
And, of course, more members would allow us to hire some more staff
for even more updates

You need to have people shooting you ideas like holding a contest or other
"incentives" to get people to take a couple hours of their time and
post info there (for example, a free month if you take your list and
go through it and post at least 50 pieces of new information (whether
it be RTS's, Pending, or addresses they forgot to report before, or
scanning images). *If you can track how many things people have
submitted (don't know what your capability is), then you could do
really well. *Or start with 100 items (making it harder for first
level) and then a second free month for those posting an additional 75
and a third month for those doing 50 (to make it more to your benefit,
you can make it within a time limit; say a week, forcing people not to
do it here and there, but to actually sit down and do it immediately).


We already to something like this. It's called the "Free Membership
Giveaway". In short, we give away free memberships to contributing
members in a monthly drawing. By submitting information you collect
points - and the more points you have, the higher your chance of
winning is.

Now, because I am on a free trial and even if I actually pay for
another month, I cannot simply report my successes anymore.... because
most of those will take a lot longer before they come in. *I am
guessing a lot of people do this? So you need to make them stay. *How
I am not sure. *I would probably be more apt to stay if more info was
reported and I knew you did not allow people to talk about anyone.
Tell them stick to the subject of collecting and no more. *No name
calling, no flaming. *See, you can do what you want... you can boot
people. *Word on the street is the ones who cause problems are
probably high contributors so you don't want to say anything. *You
really need to find a way to combat that.

This (user attacks) may have been true for a limited period in the
StarTiger history, but we have since taken measures to ensure that
this is not the case. Since this text is already running very long; if
you are interested in further information i would suggest taking a
look at our set of "basic forum rules" as well as the forum thread
about the current warning/ban concept that went into effect at the
beginning of this year (both are available in the "StarTiger Related"
section of the forum.


The only HUGE problems I have with your site are personal ones. *1)
it's a closed off community that talks about other groups I hear
without benefit of those others hearing stuff about them. *That should
be disallowed. NO TALKING ABOUT OTHERS if the others are not there to
defend themselves.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you please clarify?
If this is related to how user attacks within the forum are handled, i
suggest taking a look at our current forum rules and warning/ban
concept.

*2) You really should NOT have to pay for address
information that is free, but I've been lightening up on this a bit
after I see you do offer "other information" that is of some limited
use.

It all depends on how updated you want the addresses to be. As
mentioned earlier, we actively update addresses on a very large scale,
and will continue to sort out addresses that are no longer valid. In
addition, StarTiger provides you with a large number of features that
you can find nowhere else and that can greatly enhance the way you
collect and manage your autographs - the ones mentioned in this post
are only some of them.

We also continouly and actively develop StarTiger, adding new
features, improving existing ones and just simply making collecting
easier. There is also a huge part of StarTiger that you do not see as
a member - The managing part, which allows us to do such a large
number of updates every day.

Keeping StarTiger up-to-date and the continous development of the
platform is a full-time service that simply cannot be provided for
free.
Please also keep in mind that StarTiger is completely advertisment
free, you will not be bugged with an flashing ads, annoying pop-ups
and the like.

When signing up for a full year, StarTiger costs less than 10 cents a
day - compare this with all the information, features and advantages
you get, and the time you can save. Just the personal website alone is
something other companies would charge you more for. Plus - especially
if you regularly send out requests - you will save this amount of
money just by avoiding return to senders by cross-referencing your
previous/other sources with StarTiger.

You need site statistics (like Ebay where you can track users etc and
who's doing what). *You need a complaint system where a person is
flagged for being warned and then if a repeated offender of something,
is booted. *you need to take that info and develop it. *Star Tigeris
HUGE. *It's on the verge of being something mega (and profit making)
but there is only staleness as the design and rest of it isn't
growing. *Though I do appreciate INFO growing more than the looks;
ease of use etc. *Don't get caught up in the Ebay trap where you have
to pay for too many upgrades that are not needed and then forced to
pass that to the customer. *Subtle, easy changes to keep people
interested but stick with INFORMATION as that's what drove people
there in the first place and will always be why they are there. *(as I
am writing this, I feel like I should start my own company.... LOL).

We already do this as well
To access a members submission history, click on the name of the
member (e.g. beside an address he submitted). A pop-up menu will open
with several options which allow you to contacting the member, visit
his personal website or viewing his profile. Select the profile to
view scans and test results the member has submitted, or to view his
trade list.
We also have a warning/ban system in place which we use - you can find
more information about this in the corresponding thread in our
"StarTiger Related" section.
Plus, for trades, we provide a rating system similar to eBay where you
can give members positive (or negative) ratings for trades you made
with them.

I hope something here helps. *Just my thoughts from my recent perusing
(I have a few more films to go through and try too but not sure I will
be around to report the successes).

There are a few good things for a good researcher onStar Tiger.
People who've uploaded photos help by identification. *So if you have
two people with the same name, you can look at what people have and
figure out which address is more the probability.


Yes, this is definitely true They can also help to some degree in
verifying the authenticity of autographs you receive back. Especially
scans of in-person autographs are a great help in this regard.

This has been a long post and again i want to thank you for taking the
time to compile and write your response, and for taking the time to
read through mine.
I hope i have answered all points to your satisfaction, and that my
answers will help you to make full use of the resources StarTiger can
offer you.

Thanks again,
Markus Geilfuss
http://www.startiger.com
StarTiger - The Autograph Community

For those of us with sites already, there's no need for a collection
space; though I can see a use for it for some people.

As for not annotating everythign I could, I am having to pay to spend
hours of my time giving you information that took me years collecting,
so for me, I don't see what is in it for "me". especially since I am
not into the storage space for my scans, nor the boards where people
talk about one another ... or other groups. So essentially, if I go
there, it's for one purpose... to get addresses to aid me in my
collection. What I was simply telling you is this is why people went
to your site in the very beginning and that by offering a "pay site"
has not changed that fact. What are we paying for? I don't want to
have to pay for outdated addresses when it seems your focus is on
maintaining storage for other people.

Might have been better to offer a tiered program. Access to address
area a certain price, access to addresses and having your own storage
area another... and whole site access a third price. Then you can
offer new and improved features for those you want to woo to pay full
price. I see soooo much potential and guess feel you're not quite
there yet.

By the way, your first of all and second of all statements are the
same thing just worded differently. A storage area and website are
the same?

My personal reason for not updating all the info I could yesterday was
"why should I spend hours to help you when I have to pay"? My Star
Wars address list is hundreds of pages now. I have close to 200 on my
master list (with separate lists for TV movies, cartoons, Video games,
artists, authors, radio dramas, fan films and other stuff). I have
lists for everything... dozens of them. I'd literally have to spend
many many weeks doing this and for what purpose? You charge me and I
get what from it? Nothing that I see. So for me, the address
database is the only tool I'll use and that seems very outdated... I
wish I could tell you how to get people to post, but I don't think
there's any way to do that, just like it's impossible to get rid of
the trolls here.

I'd have no collection management to save me time, as I have my own
site... that stores 98-99% of all my graphs. So to anyone looking,
everything I own is on there minus a handful of items I was told by
the celebrity or friends not to post. Or a couple I forgot to post (I
saw last night I forgot to add Robbie Gee to my Pirates section).

I know how to use the site and it's easy to use. I submitted quite a
few pendings and a few RTS's as I said. That's a good point, as it
not having advertisers popping up. I did not know about the "trade"
area where you can give ratings. Good idea. Same for buying
experiences I guess? Hope so.

The point of my post was not to make you defend the site, but to see
what a customer (as I would be a potential customer) is looking for.


On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 10:22:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Hi Sue,

thank you very much for taking the time to compile such a detailed and
well formed response!

I do not know how much time you have spent within StarTiger so far and
its development over the years. This is not the same website anymore
that it was four years ago when we "went pay", and we have done
continous steps to address the issues you have raised in your post.

If this is ok with you, i would like to go through your post step by
step and address each part you mentioned.


Doing your own research is definitely the way to go! But StarTiger is
not something that is "aside" from research. It can be and should be
an integral part of your research.
Start your search at StarTiger. If you do not like the information you
get for a certain celebrity, continue your research beyond StarTiger.
If you come across a better address, you can submit it to StarTiger
(you can keep it private at first, if you want that - StarTiger allows
you to submit addresses as private and make them public later on). If
you don't, submit an address request.
In any case, i suggest referencing any address you find somewhere else
with our records. We also keep records of outdated addresses (of
course marked as such!) for this reason - so that if you find an
(outdated) address somewhere else, you can compare it and avoid it if
it is indeed outdated.

As for submitting information, there are many benefits for doing so.
It's not just simply for reporting your response to other collectors.
StarTiger is much more than that!

First of all, you get complete collection management when you submit
information. Everything you add is stored in your own personal
StarTiger area ("MyStars"), where you can access it, update it, change
it, search it and sort it by almost any criteria you want. You can
also connect the information, e.g. you can add scanned autographs to
your test results.
This alone can be a tremendous time saver if you use it.

Second, we also provide you with your own personal website,
"MyCollection". With just a few clicks you get your very own,
customizable website where you can present your collection - including
to non-members! And the great part is: Everytime you submit something
to StarTiger - be it scans, test results or similar, your personal
website will be automatically updated. This, again, can be a
tremendous time saver. MyCollection also comes with your own personal
blog, and it will stay online even if you are no longer a member.

You mention that you did not have time to annotate addresses; i
believe this is mainly the case because you keep a seperate collection
list, and would have to manually transfer this information to
StarTiger, one by one.
This would be completely different if you would make full use of all
StarTiger has to offer. For example, if you join for a year, the cost
per month will become almost neglibile compared to other costs in this
hobby. A year is less than 10 cents a day. Imagine how much time you
would save in terms of collection management alone.

Submitting information to StarTiger is easy, as in most cases the
address is already there. Simply click on "Mark as Pending" when you
send a letter, and on "Add Test Result" when you receive a response.
The current date is filled in by default, making it even faster for
you to submit the details. When using the "Pending" feature
beforehand, all the information you entered before are automatically
filled in when you submit a test result later on. And again: By doing
this you will have the benefits of a searchable, sortable,
automatically updated collection management and your own personal
collection website.

Additionally, if you submit information for a celebrity, a "notice
box" with this information will be shown to you when you visit the
celebrity listing. This way, when not sure if you already wrote a
celebrity and at what address, you simply have to enter the name in
the search box and view the listing to get all the information.

Third, and this is a rather new feature, you can create lists of
celebrities you collect. E.g. if you collect a certain sports team or
movie cast, you can create a list of all the persons you want to
collect.
And the good thing: The list will automatically show YOUR own
personal, current status for each of the celebrities, based on your
submissions. For example, if you sent out to 10 celebrities on your
Harry Potter list and received back 8 responses, the list will
automatically show "Success" for the 8 responses and "Pending" for the
2 remaining ones. This allows you to keep an excellent overview over
certain areas you collect.
Plus: To save you time, lists can be shared with other members, so
e.g. you can copy a list from another member as a starting point.
(there already exist several "Harry Potter" lists that you could use).

There are more benefits to submitting information, but i will stop
here for now because the text would simply get too long



1) putting untested addresses on there without intentions of ever
doing anything after

Adding untested addresses is not necessarily a bad thing, if they are
valid. Of course this also depends on the definition of "untested" in
this case.
For example, we recently updated listings for almost 2000 agencies,
teams, records labels etc, resulting in tens of thousands of new
addresses (and tens of thousands of removed addresses as well). And we
will continue to do these frequent updates on a much larger scale than
we ever did before.
Of course these new addresses do not feature a "test result" yet, as
no one has written to them yet. But that does not mean they are
completely "untested", as they are updated regularly - they just have
not been "tested" yet for this particular celebrity in the sense that
no one has written to the celebrity.

Given that we now feature 178,000+ celebrities, it is only natural
that not every celebrity is written to all the time. But again, we do
our best to update all address records, and in the past six months we
have made more changes, updates and additions than ever before. And we
will continue to do so!

2) people not really reporting what they are trying. *(for the record,
I probably added 30 Pendings the other day and 10 RTS's overall). *But
I was definitely NOT interested in giving you new addresses I found
through hours of research that I just tried. I want my success first
and that of Paul's and Friends groups first. *You know, where everyone
is AWESOME and not talking about one another.

StarTiger allows you to submit an address with a "private" option set.
This way no other member - except you - will be able to see or access
the address. Once you receive a response, you can set the address to
public with a simple mouse click.

3) there's a LOT and I mean a LOT of old info. *I don't know how you
could police this, so I can't fault the site. I see where there's a
good job with plays and removing them when they expire (or other
venues) but there are many, many addresses where the person left the
agency YEARS ago.


Again, we are currently actively updating many, many address listings.
New technologies which we developed especially for StarTiger now allow
us to do this on a much larger scale than ever before, and make very
active use of this.

Should you notice outdated information of ANY kind, please report them
to us and we will take care of it ASAP.
To report or update an address:
- Select "Edit/Update" from the listing menu
- Select "Correct an Address"

Recommendations. I don't know how much moneyStar Tigermakes. *But
you have to SPEND money to make money. *When you have volunteers,
that's well and good. *But a paid position might be in order.
Literally pay someone a salary to do a few things to improve your site
and the potential for a money making site would be phenomenal. You
could have someone out there researching plays. *Or someone going
through and calling agencies for current client lists (and then cross
referencing those lists to the 'extra' people being reported at that
same agency (so you can delete them). * You need to have people
researching addresses... verifying. *Getting rid of useless info. *

Yes, we are already updating agency/team/label listings and will
continue to do so on a large scale.

For example, in the first 5 months of 2008 alone, more than 210,000
changes have been made to the StarTiger database.
Out of these we
New Addresses: approx. 74,200
Removed Addresses: approx. 31,700

Of course we will also continue including more agencies and enhancing
our technologies to allow for even better, more acurate address
listings.
And, of course, more members would allow us to hire some more staff
for even more updates

You need to have people shooting you ideas like holding a contest or other
"incentives" to get people to take a couple hours of their time and
post info there (for example, a free month if you take your list and
go through it and post at least 50 pieces of new information (whether
it be RTS's, Pending, or addresses they forgot to report before, or
scanning images). *If you can track how many things people have
submitted (don't know what your capability is), then you could do
really well. *Or start with 100 items (making it harder for first
level) and then a second free month for those posting an additional 75
and a third month for those doing 50 (to make it more to your benefit,
you can make it within a time limit; say a week, forcing people not to
do it here and there, but to actually sit down and do it immediately).


We already to something like this. It's called the "Free Membership
Giveaway". In short, we give away free memberships to contributing
members in a monthly drawing. By submitting information you collect
points - and the more points you have, the higher your chance of
winning is.

Now, because I am on a free trial and even if I actually pay for
another month, I cannot simply report my successes anymore.... because
most of those will take a lot longer before they come in. *I am
guessing a lot of people do this? So you need to make them stay. *How
I am not sure. *I would probably be more apt to stay if more info was
reported and I knew you did not allow people to talk about anyone.
Tell them stick to the subject of collecting and no more. *No name
calling, no flaming. *See, you can do what you want... you can boot
people. *Word on the street is the ones who cause problems are
probably high contributors so you don't want to say anything. *You
really need to find a way to combat that.

This (user attacks) may have been true for a limited period in the
StarTiger history, but we have since taken measures to ensure that
this is not the case. Since this text is already running very long; if
you are interested in further information i would suggest taking a
look at our set of "basic forum rules" as well as the forum thread
about the current warning/ban concept that went into effect at the
beginning of this year (both are available in the "StarTiger Related"
section of the forum.


The only HUGE problems I have with your site are personal ones. *1)
it's a closed off community that talks about other groups I hear
without benefit of those others hearing stuff about them. *That should
be disallowed. NO TALKING ABOUT OTHERS if the others are not there to
defend themselves.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you please clarify?
If this is related to how user attacks within the forum are handled, i
suggest taking a look at our current forum rules and warning/ban
concept.

*2) You really should NOT have to pay for address
information that is free, but I've been lightening up on this a bit
after I see you do offer "other information" that is of some limited
use.

It all depends on how updated you want the addresses to be. As
mentioned earlier, we actively update addresses on a very large scale,
and will continue to sort out addresses that are no longer valid. In
addition, StarTiger provides you with a large number of features that
you can find nowhere else and that can greatly enhance the way you
collect and manage your autographs - the ones mentioned in this post
are only some of them.

We also continouly and actively develop StarTiger, adding new
features, improving existing ones and just simply making collecting
easier. There is also a huge part of StarTiger that you do not see as
a member - The managing part, which allows us to do such a large
number of updates every day.

Keeping StarTiger up-to-date and the continous development of the
platform is a full-time service that simply cannot be provided for
free.
Please also keep in mind that StarTiger is completely advertisment
free, you will not be bugged with an flashing ads, annoying pop-ups
and the like.

When signing up for a full year, StarTiger costs less than 10 cents a
day - compare this with all the information, features and advantages
you get, and the time you can save. Just the personal website alone is
something other companies would charge you more for. Plus - especially
if you regularly send out requests - you will save this amount of
money just by avoiding return to senders by cross-referencing your
previous/other sources with StarTiger.

You need site statistics (like Ebay where you can track users etc and
who's doing what). *You need a complaint system where a person is
flagged for being warned and then if a repeated offender of something,
is booted. *you need to take that info and develop it. *Star Tigeris
HUGE. *It's on the verge of being something mega (and profit making)
but there is only staleness as the design and rest of it isn't
growing. *Though I do appreciate INFO growing more than the looks;
ease of use etc. *Don't get caught up in the Ebay trap where you have
to pay for too many upgrades that are not needed and then forced to
pass that to the customer. *Subtle, easy changes to keep people
interested but stick with INFORMATION as that's what drove people
there in the first place and will always be why they are there. *(as I
am writing this, I feel like I should start my own company.... LOL).

We already do this as well
To access a members submission history, click on the name of the
member (e.g. beside an address he submitted). A pop-up menu will open
with several options which allow you to contacting the member, visit
his personal website or viewing his profile. Select the profile to
view scans and test results the member has submitted, or to view his
trade list.
We also have a warning/ban system in place which we use - you can find
more information about this in the corresponding thread in our
"StarTiger Related" section.
Plus, for trades, we provide a rating system similar to eBay where you
can give members positive (or negative) ratings for trades you made
with them.

I hope something here helps. *Just my thoughts from my recent perusing
(I have a few more films to go through and try too but not sure I will
be around to report the successes).

There are a few good things for a good researcher onStar Tiger.
People who've uploaded photos help by identification. *So if you have
two people with the same name, you can look at what people have and
figure out which address is more the probability.


Yes, this is definitely true They can also help to some degree in
verifying the authenticity of autographs you receive back. Especially
scans of in-person autographs are a great help in this regard.

This has been a long post and again i want to thank you for taking the
time to compile and write your response, and for taking the time to
read through mine.
I hope i have answered all points to your satisfaction, and that my
answers will help you to make full use of the resources StarTiger can
offer you.

Thanks again,
Markus Geilfuss
http://www.startiger.com
StarTiger - The Autograph Community

Hi Sue,

thank you again for your response.

I greatly appreciate your input and as you can see from my previous
response, we already either provide features that give you the options
you looked for, or have taken steps to address the issues you
mentioned.

In the end, you have to decide what is best for your collection needs.

We currently provide the largest and most detailed celebrity address
database online, updated daily with hundreds, often thousands of
updates everyday; plus full collection management and your personal
website are included with no extra fee.

We have taken great steps, especially in the last 6 months, to provide
all members with even more current, more detailed address listings and
we will continue and expand this path in the future.

As mentioned before, should you notice any outdated information,
please let us know and we will deal with it ASAP.

Since 2004 we kept our subscription prices extremely low, so that you
can access all this for less than 10 cents a day - and we have kept
adding new features and new options - and now can offer you more
options and more daily updates than ever before.
We have taken the decision to take a flat-fee model (pay once, access
everything) from the start to allow every member to take advantage of
all features from the get-go.

By the way, your first of all and second of all statements are the
same thing just worded differently. A storage area and website are
the same?

They are two areas:
- MyStars for managing your collection
- MyCollection for presenting your collection

For more details, please take a look at our help section:
http://www.startiger.com/help.php
specificly
[Getting Started] MyStars - Managing Your Collection
[Getting Started] MyCollection - Your Personal Website

In closing, may i ask you how much time you spend every week updating
your address lists and managing your collection? Removing outdated
addresses, adding new addresses?
Now, please compare this with how much time the same thing would take/
would have taken using StarTiger. Not transfering your current lists
to StarTiger. Not copying your previous test results.
Just imagine, instead of creating these lists over the years, to have
used StarTiger - you would have all your information online, fully
searchable, fully sortable - plus of course, you would help others
collectors. And they (+ StarTiger staff) would have helped you - e.g.
by testing the addresses. Or by letting you know addresses that are no
longer valid. And you would of course have your own personal website,
automatically updated with every submission... = no more manual
updates, which take time as well.

That's the basic idea behind StarTiger.
Making sharing the information easier. Making the hastle of finding
addresses, managing address lists, managing your collection much
easier. And allowing you to concentrate on the most fun part of the
hobby: writing letters & receiving a response.

I hope my answers have helped you to make better use of StarTiger and
everything it can offer. Your initial question was if "StarTiger is
worth the fee" - again, in the end this is your decision to make, for
your personal collection habbits and prefences. We only try to provide
the best service possible, and to improve with every month, every
year. The only thing i wanted (and the reason i answered in the first
place) is that you can make full use of your free trial before making
the decision, knowning and trying out everything StarTiger offers.
Maybe submit a few more responses, try out the system a little more.
Check out "MyStars" and see what it can offer. Create your
"MyCollection" page, customize it a bit and see what it provides.
I also greatly recommend the "Getting Started" part of our help
section, which provides a compact overview for most of StarTiger's
features: http://www.startiger.com/help.php
Despite being called "Getting Started", it's also a good read for
members that already know most of the "basic" StarTiger features and
would like to know more - after all, a lot has been added and improved
over the last 4 years.

And again should you come across information that you believe to be
outdated - please let us know! It only takes a few clicks and a short
comment, and we will handle it ASAP. And if a celebrity you want to
write to is not listed, please feel free to submit an address request.

If you have any further questions about StarTiger or its usage,
please do not hesitate to check out the help section or if your
question is not answered there, contact me via e-mail.

Thanks,
Markus Geilfuss
http://www.startiger.com
StarTiger - The Autograph Community

In the end, you have to decide what is best for your collection needs.

This is very true.

Since 2004 we kept our subscription prices extremely low, so that you
can access all this for less than 10 cents a day - and we have kept
adding new features and new options - and now can offer you more
options and more daily updates than ever before.
We have taken the decision to take a flat-fee model (pay once, access
everything) from the start to allow every member to take advantage of
all features from the get-go.

This is also true; price has remained the same and isn't that high...
still have to work it out if it's worth it. It's not if I am only
getting one or two good addresses every few months. We shall see.

In closing, may i ask you how much time you spend every week updating
your address lists and managing your collection? Removing outdated
addresses, adding new addresses?

Well, like your site, I keep ALL information. If it's old, I got by
date. Anything more than three or four years old I would know not to
use without verification.

Now, please compare this with how much time the same thing would take/
would have taken using StarTiger. Not transfering your current lists
to StarTiger. Not copying your previous test results.
Just imagine, instead of creating these lists over the years, to have
used StarTiger - you would have all your information online, fully
searchable, fully sortable - plus of course, you would help others
collectors. And they (+ StarTiger staff) would have helped you - e.g.
by testing the addresses. Or by letting you know addresses that are no
longer valid. And you would of course have your own personal website,
automatically updated with every submission... = no more manual
updates, which take time as well.

I do all this on my own... so no difference for me personally I am
afraid. Your site is definately good for newbie collectors and ones
not doing this every day of their life practically. I am not saying
that's a bad thing; on the contrary, you help a lot of people.

If you have any further questions about StarTiger or its usage,
please do not hesitate to check out the help section or if your
question is not answered there, contact me via e-mail.

Will do.