1796 B-4 Draped Bust Dollar -- Opinions??

Hi, Everyone.

I recently had a coin graded by ANACS for someone wanting advice. It
came back F-12 Details, Cleaned. Here are the pics:

http://home.comcast.net/~bhartman24/1796secondobv.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~bhartman24/1796secondrev.jpg

The reason I had it graded was for selling purposes. How do you think
it would do on Ebay? Or is Heritage a better choice? Any advice you
could give me would be appreciated. I asked some people on the PCGS
U.S. Coin Forum, and they sounded like Ebay would be an okay venue.
What do you think it would go for?

Brian

Brian Hartman wrote:
Hi, Everyone.

I recently had a coin graded by ANACS for someone wanting advice. It
came back F-12 Details, Cleaned. Here are the pics:

http://home.comcast.net/~bhartman24/1796secondobv.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~bhartman24/1796secondrev.jpg

The reason I had it graded was for selling purposes. How do you think
it would do on Ebay? Or is Heritage a better choice? Any advice you
could give me would be appreciated. I asked some people on the PCGS
U.S. Coin Forum, and they sounded like Ebay would be an okay venue.
What do you think it would go for?

Look over the sales data in the Heritage auctions? Check other
dealer/auction site data. Get comfortable with a reserve. Give Ebay a
try with that data?


--
JMark

JMark wrote:
Brian Hartman wrote:
Hi, Everyone.

I recently had a coin graded by ANACS for someone wanting advice. It
came back F-12 Details, Cleaned. Here are the pics:

http://home.comcast.net/~bhartman24/1796secondobv.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~bhartman24/1796secondrev.jpg

The reason I had it graded was for selling purposes. How do you think
it would do on Ebay? Or is Heritage a better choice? Any advice you
could give me would be appreciated. I asked some people on the PCGS
U.S. Coin Forum, and they sounded like Ebay would be an okay venue.
What do you think it would go for?

Look over the sales data in the Heritage auctions? Check other
dealer/auction site data. Get comfortable with a reserve. Give Ebay a
try with that data?


--
JMark

Hi, JMark.

I've looked over some of the Heritage and Ebay auctions. My issue is
that the coins Heritage auctions always look overexposed and washed
out, so I hesitate to go through them, but I'm not sure about how to
price the starting bid, how long to make the auction, etc., if I go the
Ebay route. I'm selling this for someone else, so I want to be extra
careful with it.

On 12 May 2006 11:05:51 -0700, Brian Hartman wrote:

I've looked over some of the Heritage and Ebay auctions. My issue is
that the coins Heritage auctions always look overexposed and washed
out,

Hm. I was _just_ there, and they have an "adjust brightness/contrast"
right next to the coin images. Maybe you have flash turned off and your
functionality is limited?

so I hesitate to go through them, but I'm not sure about how to
price the starting bid, how long to make the auction, etc., if I go the
Ebay route.

Well, you don't want a short auction, go for the standard 7 days. Short
auctions are often used by people who want a quick sale for less than
honorable reasons, and I am probably not alone in considering a short
auction to be a red flag.

I'd see heritage and eBay's completed auctions for pricing history, and
then start the bidding at maybe 50% of the average. Because it's
someone else's coin, explain to them that this is to encourage bidding
to start, but high enough to protect him from losing out entirely.
Or you can start bidding very low and have a reserve at his absolute
rock-bottom. It costs more but that's cheper than selling it way under
what he thinks it's worth. Let the owner decide, just present the
options to him.

I'm selling this for someone else, so I want to be extra
careful with it.

Understood and appreciated.

One thing - What does "B-4" mean in this context? I'm ignorant of 18th
century US coins but do you mean "G-4"?

Dave Hinz wrote:
On 12 May 2006 11:05:51 -0700, Brian Hartman wrote:

I've looked over some of the Heritage and Ebay auctions. My issue is
that the coins Heritage auctions always look overexposed and washed
out,

Hm. I was _just_ there, and they have an "adjust brightness/contrast"
right next to the coin images. Maybe you have flash turned off and your
functionality is limited?

Hi, Dave.

I've got the plugins necessary, and I've adjusted the images when I've
looked. My fear is that the bidders will take the images at face
value, and that the adjustments allowable by the interface are
insufficient for getting a really good look at the coin. I've looked
at several Morgans being auctioned on the Heritage site, and my first
response to most of them is, "Geez, what are they hiding???" I really
don't want people to be left with that impression of this coin.



so I hesitate to go through them, but I'm not sure about how to
price the starting bid, how long to make the auction, etc., if I go the
Ebay route.

Well, you don't want a short auction, go for the standard 7 days. Short
auctions are often used by people who want a quick sale for less than
honorable reasons, and I am probably not alone in considering a short
auction to be a red flag.

Thanks. That's what I figured. Much better to let the bids stack up
than to be perceived as trying to take the money and run!


I'd see heritage and eBay's completed auctions for pricing history, and
then start the bidding at maybe 50% of the average. Because it's
someone else's coin, explain to them that this is to encourage bidding
to start, but high enough to protect him from losing out entirely.
Or you can start bidding very low and have a reserve at his absolute
rock-bottom. It costs more but that's cheper than selling it way under
what he thinks it's worth. Let the owner decide, just present the
options to him.


I hesitate to have a reserve, because I think reserves tend to chase
bidders away, but in this case, I think a reserve would probably be the
best option. It's better to not sell than to leave the person I'm
selling for feeling screwed. Thanks for your advice!

I'm selling this for someone else, so I want to be extra
careful with it.

Understood and appreciated.

One thing - What does "B-4" mean in this context? I'm ignorant of 18th
century US coins but do you mean "G-4"?

B-4 is short for Bolender-4, a die variety of bust dollars of this
year:

http://www.coinfacts.com/silver_doll...dollar_b04.htm

"B-4 is from the same small date obverse as B-3, with the following
corrections by the engraver: the curl on top of the head and stars on
right are perfect. For the reverse, there are eight plain berries in
the wreath (in B-1, B-2, and B-3, which share the same Small Letters
reverse, there are only 7 berries in the wreath)."

It's apparently one of the more common varieties of this issue.

On 12 May 2006 11:36:09 -0700, Brian Hartman wrote:

I've got the plugins necessary, and I've adjusted the images when I've
looked. My fear is that the bidders will take the images at face
value, and that the adjustments allowable by the interface are
insufficient for getting a really good look at the coin.

I wonder if they'll let you include a link to your own webserver with
the raw scans, in an auction there? If you need webspace, I've got
plenty, just say the word.

I've looked
at several Morgans being auctioned on the Heritage site, and my first
response to most of them is, "Geez, what are they hiding???" I really
don't want people to be left with that impression of this coin.

Absolutely agree.

Well, you don't want a short auction, go for the standard 7 days. Short
auctions are often used by people who want a quick sale for less than
honorable reasons, and I am probably not alone in considering a short
auction to be a red flag.

Thanks. That's what I figured. Much better to let the bids stack up
than to be perceived as trying to take the money and run!

Right. Also don't post with a Chinese email address, that always helps.

I'd see heritage and eBay's completed auctions for pricing history, and
then start the bidding at maybe 50% of the average. Because it's
someone else's coin, explain to them that this is to encourage bidding
to start, but high enough to protect him from losing out entirely.
Or you can start bidding very low and have a reserve at his absolute
rock-bottom. It costs more but that's cheper than selling it way under
what he thinks it's worth. Let the owner decide, just present the
options to him.

I hesitate to have a reserve, because I think reserves tend to chase
bidders away, but in this case, I think a reserve would probably be the
best option. It's better to not sell than to leave the person I'm
selling for feeling screwed. Thanks for your advice!

When it's just me selling my stuff, I don't mind so much taking a hit on
a single item, because usually I can make it up elsewhere and it all
evens out. But in this case, I'd ask him to set a reserve, then you
evaluate it for realism and advise accordingly. Yes, some people won't
bid on an auction with an unknown reserve. Some listings even _say_
what the reserve is, which I've never understood but thought I'd
mention. (why not just start bidding there then? I dunno.)

I'm selling this for someone else, so I want to be extra
careful with it.

Understood and appreciated.
One thing - What does "B-4" mean in this context? I'm ignorant of 18th
century US coins but do you mean "G-4"?

B-4 is short for Bolender-4, a die variety of bust dollars of this
year:
http://www.coinfacts.com/silver_doll...dollar_b04.htm

Ah. excellent, thank you. I'm measurably less ignorant now.

It's apparently one of the more common varieties of this issue.

It's fascinating the amount of hand-engraving and craftsmanship which
went into the early dies.

Dave Hinz wrote:
On 12 May 2006 11:36:09 -0700, Brian Hartman wrote:

I've got the plugins necessary, and I've adjusted the images when I've
looked. My fear is that the bidders will take the images at face
value, and that the adjustments allowable by the interface are
insufficient for getting a really good look at the coin.

I wonder if they'll let you include a link to your own webserver with
the raw scans, in an auction there? If you need webspace, I've got
plenty, just say the word.

I've looked
at several Morgans being auctioned on the Heritage site, and my first
response to most of them is, "Geez, what are they hiding???" I really
don't want people to be left with that impression of this coin.

Absolutely agree.

Well, you don't want a short auction, go for the standard 7 days. Short
auctions are often used by people who want a quick sale for less than
honorable reasons, and I am probably not alone in considering a short
auction to be a red flag.

Thanks. That's what I figured. Much better to let the bids stack up
than to be perceived as trying to take the money and run!

Right. Also don't post with a Chinese email address, that always helps.

I'd see heritage and eBay's completed auctions for pricing history, and
then start the bidding at maybe 50% of the average. Because it's
someone else's coin, explain to them that this is to encourage bidding
to start, but high enough to protect him from losing out entirely.
Or you can start bidding very low and have a reserve at his absolute
rock-bottom. It costs more but that's cheper than selling it way under
what he thinks it's worth. Let the owner decide, just present the
options to him.

I hesitate to have a reserve, because I think reserves tend to chase
bidders away, but in this case, I think a reserve would probably be the
best option. It's better to not sell than to leave the person I'm
selling for feeling screwed. Thanks for your advice!

When it's just me selling my stuff, I don't mind so much taking a hit on
a single item, because usually I can make it up elsewhere and it all
evens out. But in this case, I'd ask him to set a reserve, then you
evaluate it for realism and advise accordingly. Yes, some people won't
bid on an auction with an unknown reserve. Some listings even _say_
what the reserve is, which I've never understood but thought I'd
mention. (why not just start bidding there then? I dunno.)

I've read on the PCGS U.S. Coin forum where people won't bid on reserve
auctions w/o the reserve price being either stated or asking the seller
what the reserve price is. I think the issue is that a lot of people
don't want to waste time putting in bids when they are ready to meet
the reserve price, if they only knew what it was. The problem with
starting the bidding at that price, though, is that people don't want
to scare bidders away with a high price. Psychologically, its easier
to get someone to look at your coin when the drop-dead price isn't
stated outright.

I'd probably start with a moderate starting price, rather than with a
reserve auction. Starting out a little bit below my wished-for price
is probably a better strategy than putting in an aggressive reserve and
having it rejected. I'm also planning on sparking interest by
announcing the auction on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum on the PCGS boards.
(You can send me an e-mail if you want me to notify you when I start
the auction. I don't want to be accused of spamming on this board.)



Ah. excellent, thank you. I'm measurably less ignorant now.

It's apparently one of the more common varieties of this issue.

It's fascinating the amount of hand-engraving and craftsmanship which
went into the early dies.

One thing I'm still wondering: How did they put the lettering on the
edge? Was that hand-stamped or did they have special dies?

Brian Hartman wrote:
I've read on the PCGS U.S. Coin forum where people won't bid on
reserve auctions w/o the reserve price being either stated or asking
the seller what the reserve price is. [...] Psychologically, its
easier to get someone to look at your coin when the drop-dead price
isn't stated outright.

I'm one of those people. It's not a hard-and-fast rule for me, but I
will usually skip auctions that have a reserve.

My reason: I consider reserves to be dishonest. Not a major,
ethics-smearing dishonesty, of course, but an indicator nonetheless.

It's akin to a huckster at a carnival. "LQQK! It's only $1!"

If the seller isn't going to be up-front about his *price*, what else is
he hiding? Can I trust his shipping? Can I trust his description?

--
Jim Seymour

Jim Seymour wrote:
Brian Hartman wrote:
I've read on the PCGS U.S. Coin forum where people won't bid on
reserve auctions w/o the reserve price being either stated or asking
the seller what the reserve price is. [...] Psychologically, its
easier to get someone to look at your coin when the drop-dead price
isn't stated outright.

I'm one of those people. It's not a hard-and-fast rule for me, but I
will usually skip auctions that have a reserve.

My reason: I consider reserves to be dishonest. Not a major,
ethics-smearing dishonesty, of course, but an indicator nonetheless.

It's akin to a huckster at a carnival. "LQQK! It's only $1!"

[snip]

I can respect that. My feeling on it is, if there's a drop-dead price
under which you don't want to go, either start the bidding at that
price, or state the price in a reserve auction. As a seller, I can
understand not wanting to post the reserve price, if you're hoping to
test the waters without giving up your coin. I just think that when
you do that, you're depressing the bidding, because some people who
might bid, won't because it's a reserve auction.

Since I'm selling this coin for someone else, there's a definite
(although right now undetermined) baseline below which I don't want to
go in price, so I wouldn't just start the bidding at $100 and hope for
the best. But I wouldn't go to the opposite extreme, either, and scare
people away by demanding upfront top dollar. I would rather set a
reasonable starting bid and let the market do the rest.

Brian Hartman wrote:


Since I'm selling this coin for someone else, there's a definite
(although right now undetermined) baseline below which I don't want to
go in price, so I wouldn't just start the bidding at $100 and hope for
the best. But I wouldn't go to the opposite extreme, either, and scare
people away by demanding upfront top dollar. I would rather set a
reasonable starting bid and let the market do the rest.

The rationale behind a reserve is sound. If it hangs people up - then
they don't bid - probably weren't going to help maximize your potential
anyway. If your concern for maximum participation overrides your concern
for protecting your seller should only basement bargain seekers choose
to bid - you have accommodated your own undoing. There is no reason to
accept some absurd risk to maximize your *potential* market. That being
said, if you can accept and show you are willing to start with the
possibility of a bargain should bidders not materialize - then both
buyer and seller have a reasonable margin and the tighter bidders are
accommodated somewhat.

Let me clarify that I participate in auctions, but not Ebay. I have no
hang ups with a seller offering items at what the market will bear over
and above statistical price data that is always in arrears. I also took
an interest as I only recently purchased a 1798 $1 in F-15 that I was
able to move into reasonably.




--
JMark