Most celebrated legitimate coins

One of the many curious things I've noticed about numismatics is that
the most celebrated, the most expensive, and the most talked about
U.S. coins are the ones that came into existence illegally. This is an
offshoot of other threads here, but I wanted to ask about million
dollar coins that didn't come into existence through illegal means.

To recap, 1933 Saints, the 1913 nickels, and the Class II and III 1804
dollars were all either stolen or forged by Mint employees. They're
contraband, or should be, no different from the 1964-D Peace dollars
and the 1974 aluminum cents. With the latter, a specimen was recently
slabbed by ICG. It's not clear whether it will be seized by the Secret
Service.

The 1933 Saint, 1913 nickel, and 1804 dollar are the three most
expensive coins, that is, those what have sold for the most publicly
(Class I 1804 dollars didn't come into existence through forgery or
theft). I suspect there have been some private sales of 1964-D Peace
dollars and 1974 aluminum cents, probably big-money sales, but this of
course is conjecture.

It seems that illegality is valued and celebrated in numismatics, at
least American numismatics. Most collectors of course don't collect
this stuff, but they talk and read about it. It gets cover treatment
with ANA and other popular coin publications.

I don't know world coins, but with ancients, the most valued are the
legal, authentic coins, the Owl dekadrachms and so on. Both ancient
and modern forgeries of ancient coins can sell for big bucks,
depending on their provenance, but I'm not aware of them selling for
more than authentic coins.

What about *legitimate* big-ticket U.S. coins, coins that fetch big
prices that came into existence without the law having been broken? I
mentioned here earlier this summer that I saw at the NY Invitational
in June an 1803 PCGS PR-66 CAM Bust dollar, with luscious toning,
priced at $1.1 million. Some might not consider proof coins real money
in that they weren't created to be spent. But at least this coin was
issued legally. Any others?

--

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"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
One of the many curious things I've noticed about numismatics is that
the most celebrated, the most expensive, and the most talked about
U.S. coins are the ones that came into existence illegally. This is an
offshoot of other threads here, but I wanted to ask about million
dollar coins that didn't come into existence through illegal means.

To recap, 1933 Saints, the 1913 nickels, and the Class II and III 1804
dollars were all either stolen or forged by Mint employees. They're
contraband, or should be, no different from the 1964-D Peace dollars
and the 1974 aluminum cents. With the latter, a specimen was recently
slabbed by ICG. It's not clear whether it will be seized by the Secret
Service.

The 1933 Saint, 1913 nickel, and 1804 dollar are the three most
expensive coins, that is, those what have sold for the most publicly
(Class I 1804 dollars didn't come into existence through forgery or
theft). I suspect there have been some private sales of 1964-D Peace
dollars and 1974 aluminum cents, probably big-money sales, but this of
course is conjecture.

It seems that illegality is valued and celebrated in numismatics, at
least American numismatics. Most collectors of course don't collect
this stuff, but they talk and read about it. It gets cover treatment
with ANA and other popular coin publications.

I don't know world coins, but with ancients, the most valued are the
legal, authentic coins, the Owl dekadrachms and so on. Both ancient
and modern forgeries of ancient coins can sell for big bucks,
depending on their provenance, but I'm not aware of them selling for
more than authentic coins.

What about *legitimate* big-ticket U.S. coins, coins that fetch big
prices that came into existence without the law having been broken? I
mentioned here earlier this summer that I saw at the NY Invitational
in June an 1803 PCGS PR-66 CAM Bust dollar, with luscious toning,
priced at $1.1 million. Some might not consider proof coins real money
in that they weren't created to be spent. But at least this coin was
issued legally. Any others?


1825 Konstanstin Ruble in Russia. The real thing is many hundreds of
thousands of dollars, but the good quality fakes are about $7.50 in Odesa,
Ukraine.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:05:51 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

What about *legitimate* big-ticket U.S. coins, coins that fetch big
prices that came into existence without the law having been broken?

A 1927-D $20 Saint graded PCGS 66 sold for $1.65 million in a private
treaty transaction the the June Long Beach show. I believe it was the
second 27-D to sell for more than $1 million.

I like the 1822 half eagle. Of the three known only one is in private
hands.
It was sold as part of the Eliasberg gold coin collection in 1982 and
perhaps
since. If sold today I would expect it to bring over $1 million.

There are some UK gold coins coming up for auction soon that are
ex-Eliasberg, are they worth a premium for the provenance?

They are slabbed by NGC. Billy

stonej wrote:

I like the 1822 half eagle. Of the three known only one is in private
hands.
It was sold as part of the Eliasberg gold coin collection in 1982 and
perhaps
since. If sold today I would expect it to bring over $1 million.

The most celebrated or notorious US coins in the minds of most non-collectors
I've encountered seem to be the "common" 1909-SVDB and the copper 1943 Lincolns.
These usually eclipsed the 1913 nickels and 1933 St. Gaudens (before the latest
sale) when asked what is the rarest coin you've heard of, especially that 1943
copper penny, the existance of which has long been legend among the uninformed
masses.

Bruce

The 1909-S VDB Lincoln is probably celebrated because while it is not
rare it still
a dream that for many collectors they can usually afford at some point
in their lives.

1913 Liberty nickels, 1933 double eagles, and copper 1943 Lincolns are
just something you read about in books and magazine articles (and maybe
see at a coin covention display)

stonej wrote:
The 1909-S VDB Lincoln is probably celebrated because while it is not
rare it still
a dream that for many collectors they can usually afford at some point
in their lives.

1913 Liberty nickels, 1933 double eagles, and copper 1943 Lincolns are
just something you read about in books and magazine articles (and maybe
see at a coin covention display)

I agree 1943 copper Lincolns are up there. What amazed me was to find
out that there are 1944 steelies (seven, if memory serves). While is
general consensus is that leftover planchets from 1942 were still in
the hoppers when 1943 cents were struck, it never dawned on me that
steel planchets would have been sitting in those hoppers and were
struck in 1944.

The so-called rarest coin I've heard discussed recently are the 1955
doubled die cents. Some people are surprised when I tell them a little
history of the 1933 Saint.

Jerry

Hmmmm. Does "most celebrated" equate to rarest, or most expensive? The
coin that came to my mind first was the New Zealand Waitangi Crown, but
then again, that coin is the only one missing from my collection. It
certainly is well known in world coin collecting circles. I am sure
that there are many opinions as to what most celebrated means.

"Jud" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hmmmm. Does "most celebrated" equate to rarest, or most expensive? The
coin that came to my mind first was the New Zealand Waitangi Crown, but
then again, that coin is the only one missing from my collection. It
certainly is well known in world coin collecting circles. I am sure
that there are many opinions as to what most celebrated means.


I equated it to the individual coin(s) most non-collectors might have heard of
and presumed to be one of the "ultimate" coins to have. Even though the 1913
nickels have their fame, many older non-collectors simply became used to seeing
those "We want to buy this coin!" classified ads for many years, and didn't
necessarily consider it to something extremely rare-- just a potential
money-maker for anyone who happened to find one in pocket change.

Bruce