FS: Macedon Koinon (Temples), Macrinus (Aegis), Delmatius, Odessos & more...

New coins have been listed for sale at Tantalus which include:

Thessalian League AE19 - Athena/Horse (Sharp!)
Antiochus IV AE14 - Hera
Odessos AE14 - River god
Seleucius II AE20 - Nike & anchor
Delmatius AE3 - Gloria Exercitvs
Vespasian AR Denarius - Pax
Elagabalus AE17 of Markianopolis - Tall basket (Rare)
Macedon Koinon AE26 - Two temples (Rare)
Macrinus AE28 of Nikopolis - Aegis (Very Rare Obverse!)
Trajan AE20 of Antioch - 2 line Legend (Scarce)

Please stop by and take a look...stay, if you like, and browse through the
nearly 15,000 coins currently in the database. Link is:

http://tinyurl.com/b3u6v

Thanks,
Joe Winnett

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 23:48:04 GMT, "Joe Winnett"
wrote:

New coins have been listed for sale at Tantalus which include:

Thessalian League AE19 - Athena/Horse (Sharp!)
Antiochus IV AE14 - Hera
Odessos AE14 - River god
Seleucius II AE20 - Nike & anchor
Delmatius AE3 - Gloria Exercitvs
Vespasian AR Denarius - Pax
Elagabalus AE17 of Markianopolis - Tall basket (Rare)
Macedon Koinon AE26 - Two temples (Rare)
Macrinus AE28 of Nikopolis - Aegis (Very Rare Obverse!)
Trajan AE20 of Antioch - 2 line Legend (Scarce)

I'm sure this was just a glitch, but the Koinon of Macedonia bronze
with the temples reverse that you list above and at Tantalus isn't
rare and isn't even scarce. This isn't the most commonly seen Koinon
of Macedonia bronze variety, but it's seen fairly commonly on the
market today as well as in collection catalogs. It's an interesting
variety of an interesting coin series, with a number of subvarieties
of the temples reverse, including the hexastyle (six column) temples
on your coin, the pentastyle (five column) temples on the G&M coin you
point to at Tantalus, and the tetrastyle (four column) temples. To get
even more detailed, some of the reverses depict only the front of the
temples, while others depict both the front and one side. The obverse
of this variety, as well as other Koinon of Macedonia bronzes, vary as
well, with Alexander among other ways depicted wearing either a diadem
or lion skin headdress.

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Thanks for the clarification, Reid.

In researching the coin I found many Koinon reverse types...a few with
temples...but none exactly matching my coin. Without any similar specimens
at any online source (Vcoins, CNG, Wildwinds, Ancient Imports, Forvm, etc.)
or their archives of previous coinage, it seemed reasonable to believe the
coin was not so common. I was led to believe (by others) it was somewhat
rare...at least a "rarely seen" subtype...my apologies for any confusion.

Joe W.


"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 23:48:04 GMT, "Joe Winnett"
wrote:

New coins have been listed for sale at Tantalus which include:

Thessalian League AE19 - Athena/Horse (Sharp!)
Antiochus IV AE14 - Hera
Odessos AE14 - River god
Seleucius II AE20 - Nike & anchor
Delmatius AE3 - Gloria Exercitvs
Vespasian AR Denarius - Pax
Elagabalus AE17 of Markianopolis - Tall basket (Rare)
Macedon Koinon AE26 - Two temples (Rare)
Macrinus AE28 of Nikopolis - Aegis (Very Rare Obverse!)
Trajan AE20 of Antioch - 2 line Legend (Scarce)

I'm sure this was just a glitch, but the Koinon of Macedonia bronze
with the temples reverse that you list above and at Tantalus isn't
rare and isn't even scarce. This isn't the most commonly seen Koinon
of Macedonia bronze variety, but it's seen fairly commonly on the
market today as well as in collection catalogs. It's an interesting
variety of an interesting coin series, with a number of subvarieties
of the temples reverse, including the hexastyle (six column) temples
on your coin, the pentastyle (five column) temples on the G&M coin you
point to at Tantalus, and the tetrastyle (four column) temples. To get
even more detailed, some of the reverses depict only the front of the
temples, while others depict both the front and one side. The obverse
of this variety, as well as other Koinon of Macedonia bronzes, vary as
well, with Alexander among other ways depicted wearing either a diadem
or lion skin headdress.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:56:25 GMT, "Joe Winnett"
wrote:

In researching the coin I found many Koinon reverse types...a few with
temples...but none exactly matching my coin. Without any similar specimens
at any online source (Vcoins, CNG, Wildwinds, Ancient Imports, Forvm, etc.)
or their archives of previous coinage, it seemed reasonable to believe the
coin was not so common. I was led to believe (by others) it was somewhat
rare...at least a "rarely seen" subtype...my apologies for any confusion.

Sounds like you did a thorough, conscientious online search! There
aren't a lot of these coins catalogued online, perhaps because they're
not particularly popular. They're usually pretty beat up. I've seen
only one EF, sold by CNG for $2,400, more than 20 times what these
coins typically sell for. The others were all in the Poor to Very Fine
range. I find the harkening back to the glory that was Macedon five
centuries earlier during third century AD Macedon pretty interesting.
Also interesting is the large number of varieties -- four main obverse
types and more than two dozen different reverse types, with mixing of
the obverse and reverse types. One of my areas.

--

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Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
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This whole discussion of "rarity" is quite interesting to me, perhaps
because you get so many different concepts offered by different dealers &
collectors. I have noted at least 3 "types" of proof that various people
offer up as the definition of rarity. Some speak only of a production rarity
(i.e. How many were struck?), others speak of a net rarity (i.e. How many
have survived?) & still others point to a market rarity (i.e. How available
is the coin?). I suppose the latter category ("market rarity") makes the
most sense to me. How many were made & how many were lost or melted down
does not seem to be as important as how hard/easy it is for me to find a
particular coin when I want it. This would seem to be the nature of
practical rarity. As one dealer observed, what does it matter if there are a
thousand known specimens of a certain coin if 999 of them are locked up in
museums & private collections...we are all left to fight it out over that
one specimen that is actually in the marketplace...a true rarity (of the
moment). Of course, this kind of approach to the topic makes "rarity" a
vacillating measurement of the moment & not a static issue.

In Hristova & Jekov's new book on Markianopolis bronzes, they have set up a
"table of rarity"...according to them, the most common bronzes are types
with at least 500 known specimens. What if the (estimated) 6 million
collectors of ancient coins worldwide all decide they want a particular
Markianopolis bronze? All of a sudden 500 specimens doesn't sound like a
large number when millions seek it! So who is to be the arbiter of "rarity"?
I'm waiting for someone to develop a "one-size-fits-all" definition we can
all live with. In other areas of numismatics, some of the rarest coins have
mintages in the tens of thousands...yet an ancient coin with a mintage of
500 can be called common? Like I said...this is an interesting issue that I
can find no concensus about.

Joe W.



"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:56:25 GMT, "Joe Winnett"
wrote:

In researching the coin I found many Koinon reverse types...a few with
temples...but none exactly matching my coin. Without any similar specimens
at any online source (Vcoins, CNG, Wildwinds, Ancient Imports, Forvm,
etc.)
or their archives of previous coinage, it seemed reasonable to believe the
coin was not so common. I was led to believe (by others) it was somewhat
rare...at least a "rarely seen" subtype...my apologies for any confusion.

Sounds like you did a thorough, conscientious online search! There
aren't a lot of these coins catalogued online, perhaps because they're
not particularly popular. They're usually pretty beat up. I've seen
only one EF, sold by CNG for $2,400, more than 20 times what these
coins typically sell for. The others were all in the Poor to Very Fine
range. I find the harkening back to the glory that was Macedon five
centuries earlier during third century AD Macedon pretty interesting.
Also interesting is the large number of varieties -- four main obverse
types and more than two dozen different reverse types, with mixing of
the obverse and reverse types. One of my areas.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:26:22 GMT, "Joe Winnett"
wrote:

Like I said...this is an interesting issue that I
can find no concensus about.

Agreed. With ancients, rarity is vacillating not only because of
demand but also because of supply, with a newly disbursed hoard
capable of completely changing market conditions for a particular coin
type.

The supply end is one of the more fascinating aspects of ancients to
me, in part because it's veiled in such secrecy ... and illegality.
This is not of course to say that coin dealers are in any way engaged
in illegality. But laws are typically broken in source countries when
newly unearthed coins are ferreted out by middlemen and on to
suppliers and eventually to dealers and collectors.

I don't blame finders and middlemen. I blame the irrational laws in
most of these source countries, Britain and the Netherlands being
exceptions, which treat even the most common ancient coins as rare
artifacts that are part of an irreplaceable cultural heritage, like
the Elgin Marbles. Numismatics in fact is paying for the past
practices of archeology, with a great deal of numismatic knowledge
lost because there's so much secrecy.

The other issue is that many ancient coins have no cultural connection
whatsoever to the country where they're found. Athenian dekadrachms
were minted by Greeks in Greek cities in Greek Asia Minor centuries
before the Turks arrived there from Central Asia, and the Turkish
government claiming these coins as part of their heritage is
ludicrous. I don't mean to single out Turkey as there are many other
examples too of other countries claiming cultural heritage when
there's none.

--

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