coin (byzanthin period)

Hi,

I have a coin discovered by my grand parents. I don't know much about
it except that it is a coin from the byzanthin period..

I find it very pretty. Here are both sides:
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p1.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p2.jpg

I am interested in all information about it:
- What does it represent ?
- Where can I get information about coins from this period (interesting
web sites) ?
- A guess of the value ?

Thanks very much,

Chris

"chris_news" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have a coin discovered by my grand parents. I don't know much about
it except that it is a coin from the byzanthin period..

I find it very pretty. Here are both sides:
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p1.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p2.jpg

I am interested in all information about it:
- What does it represent ?
- Where can I get information about coins from this period (interesting
web sites) ?
- A guess of the value ?

Thanks very much,

Chris


I am by no means an expert on Byzantine coins, but I'll tell you what I can.

The obverse legend,

DN IVSTINIANVS PP AVG

suggests that this is a coin of either Justinian or Justinian II, Byzantine
emperors who ruled in the sixth, and seventh to eighth centuries
respectively. IIRC, the big M on the reverse identifies the denomination as
a follis. The DN is an abbreviation that translates to our lord, PP is
father of our country, and AVG is Augustus, or emperor.

Go to www.wildwinds.com and select "Romaion Coins by Ruler" (Romaion is a
preferable term for Byzantine). With some patience, you might be able to
exactly identify what you've got.

It's a cool find, in any event. Good luck!

Eric

"The Fausts" wrote
... IIRC, the big M on the reverse identifies the denomination as
a follis. The DN is an abbreviation that translates to our lord, PP is
father of our country, and AVG is Augustus, or emperor.

Allow me to offer my own set of IIRCs.

The M stands for 40 in Greek numerals. This is a 40 Numisma.

DN = Dominus Noster (Our Lord, as you note. I prefer "Master" for
"Lord." Lord is an Anglo-Saxon word, a contraction for "Loaf Warden."
Give us this day, our daily et cetera. The "master" is the ruler of
the _house_ and so the DOM* root for both.)

PP is Pater Patriae, as you say, "Father of Our Country." What I find
most interesing is that this is what we call GEORGE WASHINGTON. This
underscores the basic classical education of most literate people in
the early years of our Republic. It also highlights our own
collective ignorance about the same subject matter. We say almost in
one breath that the father of our country did not want a regal title
like His Excellency, yet the fact is that PP is an imperial title.

I think the AUG in august is the same root as in AUGur. The emperor
is someone chosen by fate or whose fate chooses him. It is no
accident that this man rules; rather, it is destiny.

Michael
Juvenesdum sumus

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 23:34:06 GMT, The Fausts
wrote:


"chris_news" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have a coin discovered by my grand parents. I don't know much about
it except that it is a coin from the byzanthin period..

I find it very pretty. Here are both sides:
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p1.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p2.jpg

I am interested in all information about it:
- What does it represent ?
- Where can I get information about coins from this period (interesting
web sites) ?
- A guess of the value ?

Thanks very much,

Chris


I am by no means an expert on Byzantine coins, but I'll tell you what I
can.

The obverse legend,

DN IVSTINIANVS PP AVG

suggests that this is a coin of either Justinian or Justinian II,
Byzantine
emperors who ruled in the sixth, and seventh to eighth centuries
respectively. IIRC, the big M on the reverse identifies the denomination
as
a follis. The DN is an abbreviation that translates to our lord, PP is
father of our country, and AVG is Augustus, or emperor.

Go to www.wildwinds.com and select "Romaion Coins by Ruler" (Romaion is a
preferable term for Byzantine). With some patience, you might be able to
exactly identify what you've got.

It's a cool find, in any event. Good luck!

Eric


It is a Justinian I not the II. Minted in 538 AD (Anno XII = regnal year
12) at Nikomedia not far from Constantinople. Also, the denomination is
also often reffered to as a follis.

Jorg Lueke wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 23:34:06 GMT, The Fausts
wrote:


"chris_news" wrote in message
...

Hi,

I have a coin discovered by my grand parents. I don't know much about
it except that it is a coin from the byzanthin period..

I find it very pretty. Here are both sides:
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p1.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p2.jpg

I am interested in all information about it:
- What does it represent ?
- Where can I get information about coins from this period (interesting
web sites) ?
- A guess of the value ?

Thanks very much,

Chris


I am by no means an expert on Byzantine coins, but I'll tell you what
I can.

The obverse legend,

DN IVSTINIANVS PP AVG

suggests that this is a coin of either Justinian or Justinian II,
Byzantine
emperors who ruled in the sixth, and seventh to eighth centuries
respectively. IIRC, the big M on the reverse identifies the
denomination as
a follis. The DN is an abbreviation that translates to our lord, PP is
father of our country, and AVG is Augustus, or emperor.

Go to www.wildwinds.com and select "Romaion Coins by Ruler" (Romaion is a
preferable term for Byzantine). With some patience, you might be able to
exactly identify what you've got.

It's a cool find, in any event. Good luck!

Eric


It is a Justinian I not the II. Minted in 538 AD (Anno XII = regnal
year 12) at Nikomedia not far from Constantinople. Also, the
denomination is also often reffered to as a follis.



Thanks to all the people who answered to me. This was really interesting
for somebody like me who has no kowledge of this period.

I have a doubt. What does the big M stand for ? A figure ??? What is a
follis (I am french and was unable to get the translation)

Anyway, I will look at the great web sites that you recommended. Thanks
again,

Christophe

Christophe

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 04:27:36 +0100, chris_news
wrote:

Jorg Lueke wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 23:34:06 GMT, The Fausts
wrote:


"chris_news" wrote in message
...

Hi,

I have a coin discovered by my grand parents. I don't know much
about
it except that it is a coin from the byzanthin period..

I find it very pretty. Here are both sides:
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p1.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p2.jpg

I am interested in all information about it:
- What does it represent ?
- Where can I get information about coins from this period
(interesting
web sites) ?
- A guess of the value ?

Thanks very much,

Chris


I am by no means an expert on Byzantine coins, but I'll tell you what
I can.

The obverse legend,

DN IVSTINIANVS PP AVG

suggests that this is a coin of either Justinian or Justinian II,
Byzantine
emperors who ruled in the sixth, and seventh to eighth centuries
respectively. IIRC, the big M on the reverse identifies the
denomination as
a follis. The DN is an abbreviation that translates to our lord, PP is
father of our country, and AVG is Augustus, or emperor.

Go to www.wildwinds.com and select "Romaion Coins by Ruler" (Romaion
is a
preferable term for Byzantine). With some patience, you might be able
to
exactly identify what you've got.

It's a cool find, in any event. Good luck!

Eric


It is a Justinian I not the II. Minted in 538 AD (Anno XII = regnal
year 12) at Nikomedia not far from Constantinople. Also, the
denomination is also often reffered to as a follis.



Thanks to all the people who answered to me. This was really interesting
for somebody like me who has no kowledge of this period.

I have a doubt. What does the big M stand for ? A figure ??? What is a
follis (I am french and was unable to get the translation)

Anyway, I will look at the great web sites that you recommended. Thanks
again,

Christophe

As was mentioned by Michael Marrotta the M stands for the Greek 40, the
value of the coin being 40 nomisma. Follis was another term applied to
this denomination, I think it originally meant bag or purse.

OK. I thought that the first two mails did not say the same thing about
the "big M" as I did not know the meaning of follis.

I know everything about it now. Thanks again !
The web sites are really great and complete.

Christophe

Jorg Lueke wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 04:27:36 +0100, chris_news
wrote:

Jorg Lueke wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 23:34:06 GMT, The Fausts
wrote:


"chris_news" wrote in message
...

Hi,

I have a coin discovered by my grand parents. I don't know much
about
it except that it is a coin from the byzanthin period..

I find it very pretty. Here are both sides:
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p1.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/baillyc/p2.jpg

I am interested in all information about it:
- What does it represent ?
- Where can I get information about coins from this period
(interesting
web sites) ?
- A guess of the value ?

Thanks very much,

Chris


I am by no means an expert on Byzantine coins, but I'll tell you
what I can.

The obverse legend,

DN IVSTINIANVS PP AVG

suggests that this is a coin of either Justinian or Justinian II,
Byzantine
emperors who ruled in the sixth, and seventh to eighth centuries
respectively. IIRC, the big M on the reverse identifies the
denomination as
a follis. The DN is an abbreviation that translates to our lord, PP is
father of our country, and AVG is Augustus, or emperor.

Go to www.wildwinds.com and select "Romaion Coins by Ruler" (Romaion
is a
preferable term for Byzantine). With some patience, you might be
able to
exactly identify what you've got.

It's a cool find, in any event. Good luck!

Eric


It is a Justinian I not the II. Minted in 538 AD (Anno XII = regnal
year 12) at Nikomedia not far from Constantinople. Also, the
denomination is also often reffered to as a follis.



Thanks to all the people who answered to me. This was really
interesting for somebody like me who has no kowledge of this period.

I have a doubt. What does the big M stand for ? A figure ??? What is a
follis (I am french and was unable to get the translation)

Anyway, I will look at the great web sites that you recommended.
Thanks again,

Christophe


As was mentioned by Michael Marrotta the M stands for the Greek 40, the
value of the coin being 40 nomisma. Follis was another term applied to
this denomination, I think it originally meant bag or purse.

"The Fausts" wrote
I am by no means an expert on Byzantine coins, but ...

Me either. I must insist, however, that the M stands for 40.
Cornell University Greek Epigraphy Project, January 1996 Main Menu
http://132.236.125.30/numcode.html

The history of the folles can be found on Jonathan Kern's site:
http://www.jkerncoins.com/folles_3.htm

Yes, we can call this Byzantine coin a "follis" for its size and
metal. That still leaves undefined the meaning of the M.

I= 10
K = 20
L = 30
M = 40

And we have the coins to demonstrate this, for instance, these two
from Wildwinds:

SB163 Justinian I Æ Follis. 527-565 AD, Constantinople mint. Cuirassed
and helmeted bust facing / Large M, letter below, CON in ex. DOC I
37d; MIB I 95.

SB164 Justinian AE Half Follis. Constantinople mint. D N IVSTINVS P P
AVG, facing bust / K with 'ANNO' in left field, star in upper field, e
in the lower field and XII in right field.

What makes the 40 Numisma be a Follis? I am not sure that the K weighs
haf of the M. It probably changed over time, as well, with the M
getting smaller. There may have been some decree, perhaps that of
Diocletian, to define these legally. Perhaps this is just a
convention among modern numismatists -- or follismatists?

Michael
ANA R-162953

"The Fausts" wrote
I am by no means an expert on Byzantine coins, but ...


One thing that interested me was the change from Latin to Greek. It
seems to have occured in the reigns of Leo IV & Constantine VI about
780 AD, according to my search on Wildwinds. (They call this,
properly, Ramaion, not Byzantine.)
When John Paleologus camee to Venice to plead for help, they struck a
medal in his homor, one of the first, if not the first in the
Renaissance "currency of fame." The Greek writing called him
"Basilius Romaioi."

So, when did this shift from Latin to Greek take place?


Michael
The Truth is Out There.

On 11 Jan 2004 07:28:58 -0800, Michael E. Marotta
wrote:

"The Fausts" wrote
I am by no means an expert on Byzantine coins, but ...


One thing that interested me was the change from Latin to Greek. It
seems to have occured in the reigns of Leo IV & Constantine VI about
780 AD, according to my search on Wildwinds. (They call this,
properly, Ramaion, not Byzantine.)
When John Paleologus camee to Venice to plead for help, they struck a
medal in his homor, one of the first, if not the first in the
Renaissance "currency of fame." The Greek writing called him
"Basilius Romaioi."

So, when did this shift from Latin to Greek take place?


Michael
The Truth is Out There.

The official title of the Byzantine emperor changed from Latin to Greek
during the reign of Haraclius (610-641 AD). Specifically in 629 AD after
the successful campaign against the Sasanian Persians. It is certainly
interesting to see the empire shift from latin to Greek, especially given
the history. The whole process naturally quickened when the African
provinces (where Latin was spoken) were lost to Islam leaving mainly Greek
speakers in the remainder of the empire.