Flamewars and Lawsuits on rec.collecting.coins

"sgt23" wrote in message
...
Well I sure as well didn't start the discussion!

Nothing like a good non sequitur from our resident buffoon.
I'm conviced they dropped you on your head multiple times when you were
a baby, Sarge.

Gary Lewis showed incredibly poor judgement by making RCC an official
ANA coin club when there
is no way that the ANA can control what is posted here. Thus when
discussion about a particular
grading company's standards turned to libel as shown in item 16 here

http://www.swcgs.com/ASA_v_ANA.html

The ANA was dragged into a lawsuit along with the individuals sued.

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
...
Gary Lewis showed incredibly poor judgement by making RCC an official
ANA coin club when there
is no way that the ANA can control what is posted here.

I liked him better when he was recording with The Playboys.

Frank Provasek wrote:
Gary Lewis showed incredibly poor judgement by making RCC an official
ANA coin club when there
is no way that the ANA can control what is posted here. Thus when
discussion about a particular
grading company's standards turned to libel as shown in item 16 here

http://www.swcgs.com/ASA_v_ANA.html

The ANA was dragged into a lawsuit along with the individuals sued.

What Gary Lewis did was to pay, out of his own pocket, for a meeting
room so that RCC'ers could meet face to face at the ANA convention. He
didn't ask for anything in return, what I consider to be quite
altruistic. Of course, for a 'club' to have a meeting room, they have
to be an ANA member club, which again, Gary paid for. You say that it
was extremely poor judgement on his part. I don't see it that way. I
see it as being a 'good guy'. He didn't ask for anything in return,
much less involving the ANA in a lawsuit.

Jud wrote:
Frank Provasek wrote:
Gary Lewis showed incredibly poor judgement by making RCC an official
ANA coin club when there
is no way that the ANA can control what is posted here. Thus when
discussion about a particular
grading company's standards turned to libel as shown in item 16 here

http://www.swcgs.com/ASA_v_ANA.html

The ANA was dragged into a lawsuit along with the individuals sued.

What Gary Lewis did was to pay, out of his own pocket, for a meeting
room so that RCC'ers could meet face to face at the ANA convention. He
didn't ask for anything in return, what I consider to be quite
altruistic. Of course, for a 'club' to have a meeting room, they have
to be an ANA member club, which again, Gary paid for. You say that it
was extremely poor judgement on his part. I don't see it that way. I
see it as being a 'good guy'. He didn't ask for anything in return,
much less involving the ANA in a lawsuit.

Proof of the old maxim that no good deed ever goes unpunished.

James

On Feb 3, 9:56 pm, "Arizona Coin Collector" wrote:
"I was not aware that some people have filed lawsuits because people
posting on "rec.collecting.coins" were being flamed."

Well, pard, as you asked (and as you springboarded that with an
article I wrote), let me suggest how to find the ugly details.

With the Advanced Search in Google Groups, look for ACCUGRADE in the
subject. From that, you will find content that can suggest other
search terms and thereby many threads to follow.

It is true, as I said in that article you linked, that as soon as RCC
got its Usenet charter back in 1994 some people complained about the
Accugrade service -- but I hasten to point out that complaints were
(and remain) common. You can find posts complaining about PCGS, NGC,
ANACS and ICG, as well as eBay, Heritage, and how often Numismatic
News and Coin World do not arrive on time via second class mail.

That said, from about mid-2001, traffic on the subject of ACCUGRADE
accelerated and took on a decidedly personalized tone. In 2004, Diane
and Alan Hager brought, I believe, two separate suits in federal
courts.

(Frank Provasek's #15 in this thread links to one of those filings.
The plaintiffs filed at least one amendment to that. Again, you can
get into all of the details on your own. It provides hours of
reading. The plaintiffs had a long list of wrongs and a long list of
defendants.)

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Archives live forever."
(August 22, 1994, first posts from the old
maillist appeared as USENET traffic.)

On Feb 10, 7:48*am, Mike Marotta wrote:

"Archives live forever."

This is not true, but archives by their definition last over some
period of time. The folowing posts by Michael Marotta, which are part
of the Google Groups archive, bring light on this situation with
regard to the attitude of Michael Marotta about Accugrade and coin
collectors in general.

Michael Marotta, using the handle Mike Echo Mike, wrote this in this
newsgroup on Feb. 3, 2001:

"Alan Hager [the Acugrade founder] has built a profitable business by
supplying to people something they want at a price they are willing to
pay. That is in and of itself the noblest human endeavor."

You can read the entire post he

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...f4b2a116dbc345

Aside from an Accugrade employee, Michael Marotta was the only person
in the coin world to publicly support and defend Accugrade and its
practices. The same day, Michael Marotta attacked Byron Reed for
suggesting a boycott of Accugrade:

"You are NOBODY. You have no publications in the hobby. You work as a
press operator for a printing plant in North Dakota. You have no
college degree in numismatics. You do not own or operate an industry
recognized auction firm or numismatic dealership. If you are a member
of the ANA, you have not mentioned it and if you are a member of the
PNG or IAPN, I would be astounded. You have never delivered a
Numismatic Theater Presentation at an ANA convention. You have never
taught an ANA Summer Seminar Class. In short, you are no different
than 100,000 coin acquireres who claim that they know more than anyone
else in the hobby about their own self-defined area of speciality."

You can read the entire post he

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...e09a5aa287fa53

Another funny thing. In the above post Michael Marotta confused Byron
Reed with Brad Reed. Michael Marotta thought he was attacking the Brad
Reed for suggesting a boycott of Accugrade!

Michael Marotta's support and defense of Accugrade is understandable
because of him open dislike of coin collectors and his public
acceptance of cheating. On June 30, 2001, in a thread Michael Marota
started in the newsgroup humanities.philosophy.objectivism, a thread
that he named "Coin Collectors are Bullies", Michael Marotta wrote:

"The most successful collectors and dealers I have met are people who
display obvious symptoms of low self esteem: slouching for instance.
Lying about anything and everything from the weather to the published
price of a coin is typical."

You can read the entire post he

http://groups.google.com/group/human...0?dmode=source

In another post by Michael Marotta in defense of cheating, in a thread
in this newsgroup that he started on December 10, 2000, and named,
"Dishonest Collectors", Michael Marotta wrote:

"Once we accept that a transaction is freely entered into, whether or
not someone gets "cheated" is irrelevant."

You can read the entire post he

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...901bb967b1f513

What a character.

Brought to you as a public service!

On Feb 11, 3:20*pm, wrote:
... The folowing posts by Michael Marotta, which are part
of the Google Groups archive, bring light ...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...f4b2a116dbc345
... The same day, Michael Marotta attacked Byron Reed for
"You are NOBODY. You have no publications in the hobby. You work as a
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...e09a5aa287fa53
Lying about anything and everything from the weather to the published
price of a coin is typical."
http://groups.google.com/group/human...jectivism/msg/...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...901bb967b1f513
Brought to you as a public service!

Cha-ching! Badda-bing!! Nice shot!

As I was reading the Accugrade Chronicles the other night, I found a
reference to my insult of Byron Reed but did not find the original
post. So, thanks for helping me to remember. I also forgot about the
posts to the Objectivst newsgroup. Again, thank you for the lesson in
humility.

Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,"
--- Robert Burns
"To a Louse"

Mike Marotta wrote: (snip)
"O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,"
--- Robert Burns
"To a Louse"

At this rate you'll be drinking Talisker before you know it.

Ian

Did you mean what you said or were you talking out of your rump? Are
you really humble or are you a coward who cant take responsibility for
what he says. You said coin collectors as a group are liars and
bullies, and you said they have low self esteem. Your also defended
cheating and cheaters. Your one messed up dude.