What makes the astronomically priced pens "worth it"?

"PENMART01" wrote in message
| After looking at some Montegrappa and Namiki pens (just as an example)
that
| are priced in hundreds or even thousands of dollars, I have to ask--what
| makes them "worth" that kind of outlay?
|
| They contain a dictionary, thesaurus, and spell check.
|
|

This overpowering wit, my friends, is the main reason I keep subscribed
here.

PU

In article , "PalmUser"
wrote:

"PENMART01" wrote in message
| After looking at some Montegrappa and Namiki pens (just as an example)
that
| are priced in hundreds or even thousands of dollars, I have to ask--what
| makes them "worth" that kind of outlay?
|
| They contain a dictionary, thesaurus, and spell check.

This overpowering wit, my friends, is the main reason I keep subscribed
here.


I completely agree.

--
_Deirdre http://deirdre.net
"I'm writing a book. I've got the page numbers done." - Steven Wright
"A Sword Called Rhonda" forthcoming in anthology TURN THE OTHER CHICK

In article ,
William Bosner wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:55:27 GMT, wrote:

Toledo, some of these pens are priced liked engagement rings!

Many are actually worth more than engagement rings.

"Cost" and "worth" are not necessarily the same thing. In all honstly
I find that essentially none of the "limited edition" pens are "worth"
much at all. They tend to be cumbersome and unpleasant, if not
dowright impossible, to write with.

My thinking is that a pen is a writing tool. First and foremost it
should perform properly in the mechanical sense, which is that it
writes flawlessly. Second, the pen should perform properly in the
ergonomic sense- it should be balanced, confortable and easy to write
with for hours at a time. Very few pens on the market nowadays manage
to meet both criteria (or even one of these criteria). Appearance
should folow these considerations, but in the case of multi-thousand
dollar pens it is clear that mechanical and ergonomic performance is
secondary at best.

Now, if these pens turn your crank, great. Buy 'em. They're worth it
to you, but not to me.

In the case of Namikis, they are works of art and they do write
well, very well.

My experience with Namiki pens has been very positive. I haven't ever
written with one of their high end pens, however.

wrote in message
...
After looking at some Montegrappa and Namiki pens (just as an example)
that
are priced in hundreds or even thousands of dollars, I have to ask--what
makes them "worth" that kind of outlay? Are there only ten of each, made
by blind Austrian nuns in a sheltered nunnery in Tibet? Are the parts
made
of gold, platinum, and unicorn horn? The only thing I can think of is (in
the instance of Namiki in particular) they are works of art. I'll buy the
good looking pen if it works as well as the regular pen and isn't
astronomically priced, and be happier with it for its good looks, but holy
Toledo, some of these pens are priced liked engagement rings!

Some might argue the return on investment on one of these pens is better
than an engagement ring.

BC
-not me of course...

I agree with Bernadette 1000% about the beautiful Namiki and Platinum Make
E's. Sailor too but I particularly like the Platinum's and their offshoot
Nakaya. Pricey, one of a kind, and yes, pen works of art.

Have but a few, less than a handful. Can barely afford those; they are items
to treasure and love.

Dread to think what I would get if I had to sell entire collection to pay
for bills etc. Doubt whether I'd get a third of what was paid. Some more,
mostly much less. But that's the way of all collectables.

We collect pens because we love 'em and also use these plastic ink sticks in
our daily lives. Putting pen and thought to paper. It's reassuring in this
techno world that good trusty old pens that have past the test of time and
seen wars and peace, civilization and growth over familial generations, are
still being used, nurtured and loved. Shows that good things remain.

BLandolf" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:55:27 GMT, wrote:

After looking at some Montegrappa and Namiki pens (just as an example)
that
are priced in hundreds or even thousands of dollars, I have to ask--what
makes them "worth" that kind of outlay? Are there only ten of each, made
by blind Austrian nuns in a sheltered nunnery in Tibet? Are the parts
made
of gold, platinum, and unicorn horn? The only thing I can think of is
(in
the instance of Namiki in particular) they are works of art. I'll buy
the
good looking pen if it works as well as the regular pen and isn't
astronomically priced, and be happier with it for its good looks, but
holy
Toledo, some of these pens are priced liked engagement rings!

Won't comment on the Montegrappas, but Namiki's high-end Maki-e pens
are extremely labor intensive and require a level of skill that's
rather uncommon these days ... (they're all hand-painted in layers of
gold dust and urushi lacquer to give the objects a three-dimensional
look, and each pen takes months to complete). So, your question, "Are
there only ten of each...?" isn't far off. Because of the length of
time it takes to complete a pen, they're produced in extremely limited
numbers. The Emperor pens are huge... You have to see 'em in person
to appreciate their beauty. BTW, maki-e is an ancient art form, and
the old Japanese pen companies (e.g., Pilot/Dunhii/Namiki, Sailor, and
Platinum) have been producing beautiful maki-e writing instruments
since about 1925. Here's a brief history and explanation of maki-e
techniques:

http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~tee1015/m.../progress.html


Namiki makes a less expensive line of machine-painted pens.

The maki-e pens are an expression of a culture that values natural
beauty, art, and writing. Namiki doesn't get as much "press" as, say,
Pelikan, but IME their pens are every bit as well made and reliable.
--- Bernadette

I'll willingly grant that a beautiful pen may have more value, but
only to the extent that it first fulfills Tim's criteria for
usability. Just because something is very difficult to make,
requiring hours of skilled labor, does not of necessity make it more
valuable.

I'm afraid that I was ruined at an early age by exposure to Thornstein
Veblin's "Theory Of The Leisure Class". His premise was that many
useless things and services have great value in our society because
they show that wealthy people have a lot of extra money to squander on
useless things and services. His contention was that things and
services should only be valued by their utility. I don't agree with
his arguement that cats have value and dogs don't, but that's a
personal bias.

Regards,
Ed Bailen

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 04:49:14 +0200, "DovR"
wrote:

I agree with Bernadette 1000% about the beautiful Namiki and Platinum Make
E's. Sailor too but I particularly like the Platinum's and their offshoot
Nakaya. Pricey, one of a kind, and yes, pen works of art.

Have but a few, less than a handful. Can barely afford those; they are items
to treasure and love.

Dread to think what I would get if I had to sell entire collection to pay
for bills etc. Doubt whether I'd get a third of what was paid. Some more,
mostly much less. But that's the way of all collectables.

We collect pens because we love 'em and also use these plastic ink sticks in
our daily lives. Putting pen and thought to paper. It's reassuring in this
techno world that good trusty old pens that have past the test of time and
seen wars and peace, civilization and growth over familial generations, are
still being used, nurtured and loved. Shows that good things remain.

BLandolf" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:55:27 GMT, wrote:

After looking at some Montegrappa and Namiki pens (just as an example)
that
are priced in hundreds or even thousands of dollars, I have to ask--what
makes them "worth" that kind of outlay? Are there only ten of each, made
by blind Austrian nuns in a sheltered nunnery in Tibet? Are the parts
made
of gold, platinum, and unicorn horn? The only thing I can think of is
(in
the instance of Namiki in particular) they are works of art. I'll buy
the
good looking pen if it works as well as the regular pen and isn't
astronomically priced, and be happier with it for its good looks, but
holy
Toledo, some of these pens are priced liked engagement rings!

Won't comment on the Montegrappas, but Namiki's high-end Maki-e pens
are extremely labor intensive and require a level of skill that's
rather uncommon these days ... (they're all hand-painted in layers of
gold dust and urushi lacquer to give the objects a three-dimensional
look, and each pen takes months to complete). So, your question, "Are
there only ten of each...?" isn't far off. Because of the length of
time it takes to complete a pen, they're produced in extremely limited
numbers. The Emperor pens are huge... You have to see 'em in person
to appreciate their beauty. BTW, maki-e is an ancient art form, and
the old Japanese pen companies (e.g., Pilot/Dunhii/Namiki, Sailor, and
Platinum) have been producing beautiful maki-e writing instruments
since about 1925. Here's a brief history and explanation of maki-e
techniques:

http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~tee1015/m.../progress.html


Namiki makes a less expensive line of machine-painted pens.

The maki-e pens are an expression of a culture that values natural
beauty, art, and writing. Namiki doesn't get as much "press" as, say,
Pelikan, but IME their pens are every bit as well made and reliable.
--- Bernadette

Ed Bailen wrote:
I'll willingly grant that a beautiful pen may have more
value, but only to the extent that it first fulfills Tim's
criteria for usability. Just because something is very
difficult to make, requiring hours of skilled labor, does
not of necessity make it more valuable.

I'm afraid that I was ruined at an early age by exposure to
Thornstein Veblin's "Theory Of The Leisure Class". His
premise was that many useless things and services have great
value in our society because they show that wealthy people
have a lot of extra money to squander on useless things and
services. His contention was that things and services
should only be valued by their utility. I don't agree with
his arguement that cats have value and dogs don't, but
that's a personal bias.

Veblen. Oh boy. I wonder what percentage of today's U.S.
population would qualify as members of the leisure class given
that we have more disposable income than folks had back in the
late 1800s/early 1900s? As for the value of Maki-e pens, as with
the value of anything else, it depends on who you ask. The
vintage ones fetch up to around $100,000 at auction. Do they make
nice writers? I don't think the folks who buy them care. In a
similar vein, I don't think the folks who buy mint or near mint
onyx Patricians with sacs removed to preserve the color of the
plastic care either. Usability is not necessarily valued by all
pen collectors... this is especially true for vintage collectors.
Although I can't imagine using one of Namiki's Emperor pens (as I
said earlier, they're huge), there are many examples of useable
maki-e and pearl inlay pens dating back to the 1920s including
many made today by Namiki, Platinum, and Sailor.

Are all expensive pens purchased to show off the purchaser's
wealth? Based on my experience with fellow collectors, I'd have
to answer that with an unequivocal no. It's more than a little
presumptuous to think that everyone who buys a beautiful pen
which also happens to be expensive does so to show off their
wealth (even assuming they're wealthy is taking a gargantuan
leap) rather than a more personal appreciation of the workmanship
that went into creating it and/or its beauty for the sake of its
beauty and/or a particular interest in that type of pen and/or a
preference for beautiful pens that write well versus plain or
ugly pens that write well.

I agree with you that the artistry that goes into making maki-e
pens does not mean those pens write better than plain ones, but I
think it's a little wrongheaded (IMO) to dismiss their writing
qualities based on their artistry. I'm not saying you did that,
but I've noticed that some here *seem* to believe that if a pen
is beautiful, took hours of skilled labor to create, and cost a
lot of money, then it must not be useable. This isn't so, of
course.

I suppose Veblen would poo-poo anyone who chooses to pay more
than about a penny for a pen given that perfectly utilitarian
ones can be had for about that much. Let's face it, most people
look aghast when you tell them you paid $20 for a user-grade 51.
Twenty dollars is a lot of money to pay for a pen; most people
don't spend that much money on one writing instrument. Veblen's
world sounds like a bleak one to me. Glad many of us have some
disposable income to support useless stuff like antique fountain
pen collecting and the arts. --- B

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:11:05 -0400, "BLandolf" said:

BLandolf Veblen's world sounds like a bleak one to me.

Legend has it that old Thorstein was forced to leave the University of
Chicago after his colleagues discovered that he had seduced all their
wives. From that, i'd guess he was at least somewhat interested in
having a good time.

My feeling is that although he worked in the same discipline around
the time of Durkheim and Weber, he shouldn't be read in the same way
that one would read those two. I think he's closest to Roland
Barthes. Like Barthes, Veblen is a great read, but neither is to be
taken literally. Both were critics of the nascent consumer culture
(early 20th c. U.S. and '50s~'60s France (see the great essays in
Mythologies), and both were sensualists. Both were sometimes
completely full of it, at least on the surface (e.g., Barthes in
L'empire des signes). Sometimes their writing only makes sense in the
context of an attack on a particular class.

pen content? uhh... well...ummm...

Barthes has an essay on plastic in Mythologies where he notes that
plastic is "completely mired in its use value [...] it abolishes the
hieararchy of substances." I think that essay is particularly germane
to this thread.


--


All of a sudden, I want to THROW OVER my promising ACTING CAREER, grow
a LONG BLACK BEARD and wear a BASEBALL HAT!!... Although I don't know
WHY!!

I have to ask--what makes them "worth" that kind of outlay?

One word: desire.

QH

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:17:10 -0400, Quarter Horseman
wrote:

I have to ask--what makes them "worth" that kind of outlay?

One word: desire.

QH

Amen!