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#1
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Monaco on French Colony.
A query from a colleague This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm |
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#2
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Monaco on French Colony.
On Mar 15, 6:44*am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel ("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus) as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON COVER. My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed, about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes, which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160 euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at $42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on the right stamp. Stan |
#3
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Monaco on French Colony.
Wow Stan,
that is impressive in it's treatment, very well done, thank you, of course I'll address it with the caveat of "what someone is prepared to pay" Thumbs up. Rod "Stan" wrote in message ... On Mar 15, 6:44 am, "rod222" wrote: A query from a colleague This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel ("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus) as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON COVER. My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed, about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes, which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160 euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at $42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on the right stamp. Stan |
#4
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Monaco on French Colony.
In article d.com,
"rod222" wrote: Wow Stan, that is impressive in it's treatment, very well done, thank you, of course I'll address it with the caveat of "what someone is prepared to pay" Thumbs up. Rod "Stan" wrote in message ... On Mar 15, 6:44 am, "rod222" wrote: A query from a colleague This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel ("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus) as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON COVER. My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed, about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes, which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160 euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at $42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on the right stamp. Stan Hi To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury Catalogue 2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros. Market price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The market is not very large as most people are not even aware that French stamps were used in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before 1860. Beautiful! Richard |
#5
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Monaco on French Colony.
Hi
To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury Catalogue 2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros. Market price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The market is not very large as most people are not even aware that French stamps were used in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before 1860. Beautiful! Yes Richard this is right! I have the Armand MATHIEU catalogue for cancellations on such stamps (named type Sage in France) from Algeria and French Post Offices abroad, issues in 1985! It schould be the best catalogue for such cancellations. For Monaco, this cancellation (called type 18 in France) is given for a value of 250 F (of 1985)... I find this value for common cancellations in most French Post Offices in Turquey that are sometimes sell nearly 30/40 ¤. Here you have a luxus piece and I think that you can ask 40¤ perhaps 50¤ for this very nice cancellation ... but you must find a buyer and this is an other question because collectors for cancellations on stamps (and not on letter) begin to be scarce here in France!! best wishes and have a good afternoon on other side of the great ocean!! -- Pour m'envoyer un mail, remplacer anti par droger et manama par wanadoo; to send me directly a mail replace anti with droger and manama with wanadoo; |
#6
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Monaco on French Colony.
On Mar 15, 10:44*am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm Stanley Gibbons do list them separately, and I make this No Z156. CV GBP 45 in 2006, but I doubt whether you could double that for your pair given that only one is fully postmarked (if, indeed, anyone pays CV for anything anyway.) Chris |
#7
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Monaco on French Colony.
Thanks Richard. "Richard Thouin" wrote in message ... In article d.com, "rod222" wrote: Wow Stan, that is impressive in it's treatment, very well done, thank you, of course I'll address it with the caveat of "what someone is prepared to pay" Thumbs up. Rod "Stan" wrote in message ... On Mar 15, 6:44 am, "rod222" wrote: A query from a colleague This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel ("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus) as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON COVER. My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed, about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes, which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160 euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at $42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on the right stamp. Stan Hi To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury Catalogue 2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros. Market price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The market is not very large as most people are not even aware that French stamps were used in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before 1860. Beautiful! Richard |
#8
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Monaco on French Colony.
Thank you Jean-Paul, and thank you for your generous wishes, may I echo your blessings. Rodney "Droger Jean-Paul" wrote in message ... Hi To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury Catalogue 2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros. Market price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The market is not very large as most people are not even aware that French stamps were used in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before 1860. Beautiful! Yes Richard this is right! I have the Armand MATHIEU catalogue for cancellations on such stamps (named type Sage in France) from Algeria and French Post Offices abroad, issues in 1985! It schould be the best catalogue for such cancellations. For Monaco, this cancellation (called type 18 in France) is given for a value of 250 F (of 1985)... I find this value for common cancellations in most French Post Offices in Turquey that are sometimes sell nearly 30/40 ¤. Here you have a luxus piece and I think that you can ask 40¤ perhaps 50¤ for this very nice cancellation ... but you must find a buyer and this is an other question because collectors for cancellations on stamps (and not on letter) begin to be scarce here in France!! best wishes and have a good afternoon on other side of the great ocean!! -- Pour m'envoyer un mail, remplacer anti par droger et manama par wanadoo; to send me directly a mail replace anti with droger and manama with wanadoo; |
#9
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Monaco on French Colony.
Thanks Chris, for general issues I would agree, but for moi, I pay over catalogue if it is a particular piece I desire. This would be in that category, providing one could find the right purchaser I would think. I think it is an attractive brace of stamps. rodney wrote in message ... On Mar 15, 10:44 am, "rod222" wrote: A query from a colleague This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm Stanley Gibbons do list them separately, and I make this No Z156. CV GBP 45 in 2006, but I doubt whether you could double that for your pair given that only one is fully postmarked (if, indeed, anyone pays CV for anything anyway.) Chris |
#10
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Monaco on French Colony.
On Mar 15, 10:44*am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately? http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm Hi Rod, Monaco used Sardinia stamps 1851 - 1860, French 1860 - 1885, and started his own "Prince Charles III" stamps from 1885. There is a page from "Yvert & Tellier Stamp Classiques Du Monde 2005" (sorry not very good scan) http://cjoint.com/?2dspLve7BHo You need to recognise first are your stamps Type I or Type II? There is No: 78a - se-tenant of both Types - very expensive. Hope you've got this In this catalogue there is nothing about cancels. Hope this helps a little bit Tommy |
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